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Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)
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Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: is this the last post? on 05/31/2013 22:09:05 MDT Print View

No. I use that for my alky stove. And I tried it once. Once.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 22:10:08 MDT Print View

"The core issue was Six Moon Designs (SMD) sent a defective item. When the customer decided to cancel the order because of the defective item, it forced the customer to pay for the shipping."

Yang, I understand you had issues with the product you received and I agree that the NetTent looked defective. But this part makes it sound like you weren't cancelling your order because of quality but because you now had time to wait and were willing to do so so you could get the cuben shelter you really wanted.

>> None of them have been used. So we are fine. I am thinking to return
>> them all and buy them later when your cuben version is in stock.

That's one of the issues I addressed in my response. If you were so put off on this company, why would you then say you'd wait to buy a different product from them?

And this is the key sentence of the whole issue. This is where you said you were thinking of returning both items but SMD did not agree or authorize this. You might have interpreted it that way but it isn't stated explicitly. And that seems to be your whole argument. That you were promised your shipping refunded if you sent everything back AND cancelled your order. It's clear, to me anyway, that he was referring to the 1 lb NetTent and not both items. Again, to me, even if I had thought he said I could return everything, that would have been a red flag in my mind that we weren't on the same page.

I'm not trying to say that this is your fault and you should be vilified but I also don't think that SMD should be vilified either based on this interaction. The communication was just not clear.

Edited by rlnunix on 05/31/2013 22:20:57 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Re: Quick someone pass trav anutha on 05/31/2013 22:11:23 MDT Print View

I had to laugh at that Trav :-) a shithole indeed.

For some reason I have alway much preferd winter, don't get me wrong I like the sun as much as anyone but hate crowds and getting eaten alive by beasties.

At least in Ireland we have no poisonous feckers (besides the two legged kind)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 22:23:52 MDT Print View

Randy, I think if you would have seen Ron's posts prior to him deleting them, I think you may have a different perspective on the matter. Maybe not.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 22:28:57 MDT Print View

That's possible. I'm just going by the original post Yang made with the email thread about the return. What did I miss?

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 22:31:18 MDT Print View

"But this part makes it sound like you weren't cancelling your order because of quality"

Not becasue of quality? If the quality was good, why would I want to cancel it? I could have already used in my trip. You are talking about your imagination while I am talking about the facts.


"but because you now had time to wait and were willing to do so so you could get the cuben shelter you really wanted."

Can you tell me what made me have time to wait?

Randy, I think the question like yours or something similar had already been repeated/answered by many other members. I do not think it can go any further.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
This is the last post on 05/31/2013 22:47:58 MDT Print View

Long Live Chaff!!!







Aww man, you guys messed it up.

Edited by WoodenWizard on 05/31/2013 22:56:52 MDT.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
WTF???? on 05/31/2013 22:53:05 MDT Print View

"But this part makes it sound like you weren't cancelling your order because of quality"

Not becasue of quality? If the quality was good, why would I want to cancel it? I could have already used in my trip. You are talking about your imagination while I am talking about the facts."

If the quality was bad why would you want a cuben version from the same company???

OK, the gloves are off now. :) Trust me, my imagination has a lot better things to do then think about Yang and SMD. (If it doesn't, I'm outsourcing my imagination or putting a 10" stake through my brain.)

No, not because of quality. If the quality was bad, why would you want a cuben version instead?????? That is exactly what you said in the email thread. Or we're you making that up to get your money back? It's one or the other. So which is it? Would you have bought a cuben version in spite of your apparent misgivings about SMD? Or was that total BS?

Your words in the email thread and what you have posted here are contradicatory. Make up your mind on what the issue is.

"but because you now had time to wait and were willing to do so so you could get the cuben shelter you really wanted."

Can you tell me what made me have time to wait?"

I agree that you had a valid issue with the NetTent. If you wanted to return the gear and wait for a cuben version, contact the manufacturer and work that out. But you didn't do that. If you had said: "Hey, I think the quality of this is not something I am satisfied with and I'd like to return it." I'd be on your side. But, "I'd rather cancel my order and wait for a cuben version"? Sorry. You said: "I'd like my money back and I'llbuy cuben later'. Correct? It's in the email thread you posted so saying anything else here won't fly.

"Randy, I think the question like yours or something similar had already been repeated/answered by many other members. I do not think it can go any further."

You accuse me of not being able to ever understand the issue and of me talking about my imagination. And yet you are portayed as poor Yang who is being picked on. I have to say that is well played. I tried to be respectful in my responses but, really, come on.

Edited by rlnunix on 05/31/2013 22:55:53 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 22:54:40 MDT Print View

Who called the Lorax a fan boy?

http://hikelighter.com/2012/04/03/six-moon-designs-skyscape-x/

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: WTF???? on 05/31/2013 22:59:00 MDT Print View

Randy, I do respect you but your last post made me remember Scree's post. That was why I lost my tamper a bit. So I appologize for that.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 23:01:35 MDT Print View

BTW, I'm apologizing in advance for my previous post. Not to Yang, who doesn't deserve it, but for the BPL community for not being able to let 2 insults pass without a negative response.

Rob Carrier
(ellaemily)

Locale: Michigan
SMD on 06/01/2013 00:22:30 MDT Print View

Being a business owner for me the big issue is the way Ron handled this issue especially in a forum filled with customers. Ron you should have immediately appologized and sent the OP $20.00 for shipping. By not doing so even though it was the right thing to do you lost far far more than $20.00 i promise you there are people who have viewed this post that will skip over your company when looking at gear and that is way more damaging than shipping fees. Hopefully for your sake you take this as a learning experience and respond a little quicker to issues publicly discussed on forums full of your customer. All for a nominal 20.00? Wow

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Probably not the last post, but . . . on 06/01/2013 00:37:07 MDT Print View

. . . it's all been interesting.

One possible resolution -- a coin flip, and let Lady Chance decide.

But everyone ought to get to place bets first; winners split the pot.

PS - My experience with SMD has been excellent. Not to say the OP doesn't have a reasonable point, but it's too complicated for me to figure out without a lot of effort, if then. Seems fair, tho, that everyone can be given slack for at least one $20 mistake in their life (if mistake were made) w/o being judged too harshly.

And now, roll on to page 18.

Edited by JRScruggs on 06/01/2013 00:38:51 MDT.

scree ride
(scree)
Re: SMD on 06/01/2013 04:33:58 MDT Print View

To apologize due to public pressure would be equivalent to lying. I prefer the truth. The man apparently doesn't feel a need to apologize. He wisely bowed out of this pity fest.Me, I'm up early and bored. I've heard the cries over and over. I must be bored. Should of had some of that hot chocolate going around last night.I'd still be in bed.
Get over it, it's over.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: SMD on 06/01/2013 06:04:01 MDT Print View

Scree, do you know what apology is? Ofttimes it has nothing to do with the truth, but rather with allaying bad feelings and allowing other people to keep their dignity, whether or not something is untrue. The truth can be very destructive sometimes, for no gain for anyone, except perhaps for your amusement.

Truth? Who cares if you are bored.

Edited by butuki on 06/01/2013 06:04:36 MDT.

scree ride
(scree)
nobody cares on 06/01/2013 06:43:49 MDT Print View

An insincere apology would only be a tongue in cheek gimmick to save customer status.
Giving the protester 20 bucks to be quite would amount to a bribe.
Both sides believe that they are right. So be it. While concussions may be in order, or they may not be in order, an apology, unless it is mutual, isn't. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion with one party wisely retracting his words, while the other has made a career out of it.
I guess the whole lesson here is that life sucks so it's up to us to make it enjoyable. You don't sweat the small stuff. We all have our PP's. We all have our faults. That's what makes it fun.

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
SMD on 06/01/2013 06:51:53 MDT Print View

I would be happy to pay the $20.00 to both the OP and Ron to see this thread end.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: SMD on 06/01/2013 07:41:24 MDT Print View

I would be happy to pay the $20.00 to both the OP and Ron to see this thread end.

+1, Thom.

I know I just contributed to furthering the inanity of all this by writing something, and I had promised myself to stay away after the halfway point, but I'm so bothered by the sheer pettiness and ugliness of spirit that has been displayed, that I felt I had to say something. This is one of the ugliest threads I've seen on BPL.

scree ride
(scree)
Re: SMD on 06/01/2013 08:07:57 MDT Print View

I think that takes it up to $60, another 20 and I'll apologize. Forty and I'll switch sides.

NW Hiker
(king2005ify) - M
I'm with SMD on 06/01/2013 08:14:05 MDT Print View

I am not a fanboi of SMD, but like many others here I support and love the cottage industry.

Yang was given the option to return for refund (Net only), he chose to cancel order instead, and on top of that he sent back everything not just the net. Canceling the order gave up his right to a refund for shipping...pretty easy to understand, and clearly explained by Ron.

How is SMD in the wrong again?

Also, anyone that uses the super light no-see-um netting knows that the netting gets "scrunched up" and has many of these little areas that look like holes. They are not holes, you just kind of scratch them with your fingernail and they straighten right out. This is a standard trait of this netting, that's it.

The loose threads look bad, but are nothing more than excess thread that simply needed to be snipped. I see this all the time, especially on Kifaru's VERY expensive tents and while it is annoying maybe I don't care enough to bitch. I simply take a couple of minutes and snip 'em off and thoroughly enjoy the product. I kind of like it in some ways, it tells me it wasn't mass produced by a machine in China.

Either way, SMD did nothing wrong, they were going to refund him for his return, but once he canceled the order he then agreed to not be reimbursed for shipping, cut and dry.