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Christopher Gilmore
(chrisjgilmore) - F - MLife

Locale: New Almaden
Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/26/2013 21:56:40 MDT Print View

Item: Item Detail: Weight (oz) Weight (lbs)
Clothing Worn: 50.20 3.14
Shirt Synthetic Short Sleeves (red) 2 0.13
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.8 0.68
Underwear Under Armour Boxer Briefs 2.9 0.18
Socks Short Socks 1.5 0.09
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 2 0.13
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4 0.25
Shoes Keen Voyageur 27 1.69
Other Items Worn/Carried: 27.40 1.71
Watch Suunto Ambit 6.5 0.41
Sunglasses Oakley FLAK Sun Glasses 2 0.13
Map BlackOps map pouch & Map 8 oz 8 0.50
Compass Brunton 8099 Eclipse 3.6 oz 3.6 0.23
Phone/GPS/Camera iPhone (In lifeproof case) 5.3 0.33
Fishing License & Wallet License, DL, ATM & Cash 2 0.13
Knife and Survival 8.43 0.53
Knife Swiss Army Traveller Lite 3.9 oz 3.9 0.24
Paracord 0 0.00
Whistle on lanyard 0.1 0.01
Mini Survival Kit tin container 1.2 0.08
Extra Clothing: 19.90 1.24
Rain Gear Dri Ducks Rain Suit 8.9 oz (not needed during summer months) 0 0.00
Insulating Layer Mantbell UL Down Jacket 8.5 oz 8.5 0.53
Polyproplene Layer Under Armour Long Johns 10 oz (not needed during summer months) 0 0.00
Shirt Synthetic Long sleeve 4 0.25
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.9 0.18
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.8 0.18
Spare Socks Thin Short Socks 1.5 oz 1.5 0.09
Clothes Stuff Sack Zpacks Clothes Stuff Sack 0.2 0.01
Packing: 33.40 2.09
Backpack Gregory 65 52 oz / Golite Jam 70 31 oz 31 1.94
Stuff Sack(s) Zpacks Small Stuff Sack 0.3 0.02
Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.9 0.06
Waterproofing Trash Compactor bag 1 0.06
Essentials/Trash Bag Ziplock Bag 0.2 0.01
Shelter & Sleeping: 64.85 4.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain Regular 52 oz/ GoLite Quilt 23 oz. 23 1.44
Sleeping Pad Klymit Xframe 10 oz / Exped Downmat UL7 22 oz 22 1.38
Shelter OR Alpine Bivy 30.5oz / Tarptent Squall 46 oz / Zpacks Hexamid 16 oz 16 1.00
Shelter Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (Bivy no stakes) 1.75 oz 1.75 0.11
Drop Cloth Gossamer Gear Polychro 1.5 oz (not needed with Hexamid) 1.5 0.09
Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 0.6 0.04
Cooking & Hydration: 32.40 2.03
Water Storage CamelBack 3L Hydration Bladder (6 oz) / 2 Platypus 1 liter bottles .9 oz ea 0.9 0.06
Water Carrier Platypus 1 lt. bottle 0.9 0.06
Water Purification Sawyer Inline filter 3.5 0.22
Bear Canister or Bag Bear Vault BV500 - 41 oz / Ursack S29 7.3oz / Large stuff Sack 4 oz 7.3 0.46
Hang Kit Paracord 50 ft & Caribiner 8 0.50
Cooking Dishes Evernew ECA278 6.4 oz 6.4 0.40
Titanium Spork 0.4 0.03
Stove MSR Pocket Rocket 3oz 3 0.19
Lighter Bic Mini Lighter 0.5 0.03
Condiments Salt and Pepper Shaker 1.5 0.09
Essentials: 10.00 0.63
Flashlight Black Diamond head lamp 3.2 0.20
Flashlight batteries 3 X AAA lithium batteries 1.2 0.08
Toothbrush Toothbrush 1 0.06
Floss Mini Floss 0.2 0.01
First Aid AMK .3 2.7 0.17
Water Purification Katdyn Water Purification Tablets 6 ea 0 0.00
Quick Clot 1 0.06
Duct Tape AMK Survival Duct Tape Role 0.7 0.04
Fishing & Tech (only when fishing or Tech is an asset) 43.30 2.71
Fly rod Cabelas LST 9' 4 piece rod 4.7 0.29
Reel Kronic Fly Reel & Pouch 7.9 0.49
Tackle Lanyard Mayfly Lanyard Pouch 20.5 1.28
Keys 3.3 0.21
Charger and Cable Power Monkey Charger 6.9 0.43
Consumables: 163.75 10.23
Hand Sanitizer Generic small high alchohol content 2.3 oz 2.3 0.14
Sunscreen Sunscreen - microbottle 1.3 0.08
Tooth Paste Crest micro tube 0.75 0.05
Toilet Paper Wet wipes repackage into ziploc 2 oz 2 0.13
Soap Camp Soap repackaged 2.7 oz 2.7 0.17
Food Total Food (3 days 2 people) 77 oz 77 4.81
Stove Fuel Canister 13 oz or 7 oz OR 4 oz denatured alchohol 7 0.44
Water Water - 2 Liters 68 oz 68 4.25
Insect Protection Natrapel or Deet 2.7 0.17
Total Items Worn/Carried (lbs.) 77.60 4.85
Total Base Weight (lbs.) 168.98 10.56
Total Weight of Consumables (lbs.) 163.75 10.23
Total Carried Pack Weight (2)+(3) 332.73 20.80
Total Skin Out Weight (1)+(2)+(3) 410.33 25.65

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Ahhhh. Where to start on 05/26/2013 23:17:47 MDT Print View

How many miles a day do you hike, where, temperatures and elevation?

That is a long list.....

I started to add up the base weight and stopped when it was over 17lbs and counting. Can you do a spreadsheet of your lightest gear list, it would help.

Edited by KalebC on 05/26/2013 23:26:56 MDT.

Christopher Gilmore
(chrisjgilmore) - F - MLife

Locale: New Almaden
Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/26/2013 23:42:09 MDT Print View

Typically by myself 8-15 miles a day. When my son or wife go then I adapt my distance to their ability. As for location that would be primarily in CA and associated temps and lower elevations in the redwoods and lower sierras.

As for the list yes it is long as it is granular. My base weight for summer is 10.5 lbs.

If you can tell me how to attach a spreadsheet I can attach my whole sheet.

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Reduce on 05/27/2013 00:19:46 MDT Print View

Here is what I would omit or reduce

Map
Compass
Knife /survival- reduce to 1oz first aid
Don't bring gloves
Packing- 2 pounds? What is it?
2lb cooking/ hydration
8oz hang kit
Extra batteries
3.3 oz keys?
2.7oz soap?
2oz TP ?

If in the redwoods or lower Sierra, I would not bring any down sleeping bag or jacket, I would go full synthetic.

Edited by KalebC on 05/27/2013 00:31:00 MDT.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/27/2013 07:49:10 MDT Print View

This is a good list. But, it shows that you don't have a lot of experience with a systems approach to packing. Each system category is a component or subsystem of the pack system for 24 hours, assuming the worst weather/temps expected. This takes dual use of gear one step further.
Step one is to eliminate duplicates for function. (This is ignoring backups, if you want them. These can be added back, but we are talking minimizing weight of your EXISTING gear, pointing to where weight can be saved.)
Each sub-system in a pack needs to be analyzed for function. These functions can often be fulfilled based on cross sub-system uses of gear that is may not be related in function, but, close in fulfilling the parameters needed to satisfy a particular piece of gear. Example: using a long handled spoon as a stake.
Then you need to decide on independence. That is, you do not need an item while it is in use as another item. Using the “spoon” example, we quickly find that “sitting under a tarp in bad weather” and “cooking and eating” may cross. The decision whether to use it as a stake, OR, as a spoon can conflict, so, it is a poor example here. However, using a hiking staff as a tent pole doesn’t conflict. You can safely drop the tent pole. But this is more strictly dual purposing gear. A better example is a pads. You can use a pad for sleeping on, of course, but it has structure, too. You can use this as a pack frame. Either rolled up, or, in specially designed pad pockets. They do NOT conflict because you cannot do both “sleep” and “hike” at the same time, their use is independent. You can drop a 2 pound, internal framed pack for a 1.5pound pack (usually by removing the internal frame) and use a sleeping pad as a frame without ever noticing any difference. Follow?
Another example: Tooth paste. For three days, you don’t need tooth paste. You could substitute a drop of soap, but really, the use of tooth paste is simply to cover up the bad smell from partially decayed food. You don’t NEED it. (Some evidence suggests that the abrasive may actually harm your teeth by wearing away the enamel.) Another perhaps better example is a silverware set, which I did not see listed. Analyzing the nature of the spoon, fork and knife, we can instantly toss out the knife as a duplicate. A fork only facilitates grabbing food into your mouth as a spoon does. Of these, a spoon has greater utility, yet, pretty much does the same job as a fork. So, only the spoon is needed in the cook kit. If you bring sandwiches for three days, even the spoon, stove & fuel, can be dropped… but this is getting a little too impractical for my taste. I like my cup of coffee in the morning. I am sure you are catching my point.
I didn’t do a full analysis on your gear, but you should do it. I would suggest dropping “spare cloths” entirely, though. Clothing is generally not duplicated (except, socks, maybe underwear) for any time out less than a week. I would guess you would minimally enter the light weight category, for three days, just working on form & fuction of your gear.

Christopher Gilmore
(chrisjgilmore) - F - MLife

Locale: New Almaden
Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/27/2013 14:00:21 MDT Print View

OK thanks for the feedback folks. I have taken down some of your feedback and will consider making adjustments. If you can point out some of this dual use gear or things in my list that are specifically not needed that would be great. To be completely honest I'm fairly comfortable where I'm at but looking at any possible changes or substitutions.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/28/2013 04:09:09 MDT Print View

Chris,
Knives Nix the survival knife.
Toothpaste, Nix.


You have:
Clothing Worn: 50.20 3.14
Shirt Synthetic Short Sleeves (red) 2 0.13
Pants Columbia Convertible Pants 10.8 0.68
Underwear Under Armour Boxer Briefs 2.9 0.18
Socks Short Socks 1.5 0.09
Belt Cinch Woven Belt 2 0.13
Sun Hat/Cap Baseball Cap 4 0.25
Shoes Keen Voyageur 27 1.69
Other Items Worn/Carried: 27.40 1.71
And:
Insulating Layer Mantbell UL Down Jacket 8.5 oz 8.5 0.53
Polyproplene Layer Under Armour Long Johns 10 oz (not needed during summer months) 0 0.00
Shirt Synthetic Long sleeve 4 0.25
Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.9 0.18
Stocking Cap Carhart Wool cap 2.8 0.18
Spare Socks Thin Short Socks 1.5 oz 1.5 0.09
Clothes Stuff Sack Zpacks Clothes Stuff Sack 0.2 0.01

All cloths follow:
Pants(nylon), underpants(cotton,) shoes, socks(wool), long sleeved T (merino wool,) and hat. WORN
In sleeping bag, drybag: Long john bottom&top, socks, down jacket, sleeping bag.
Rain Gear: Jacket (5.5oz.)
Wool Sweater
All of this means safety at 25F, and above even in rain.

Map BlackOps map pouch & Map 8 oz 8 0.50
Copy the section of maps you need and put them in a ziplock. About 1.5oz.

NIX Gloves Outdoor Research VersaLiner Gloves 2.9 0.18, use your spare socks.

Backpack Gregory 65 52 oz / Golite Jam 70 31 oz 31 1.94: Too Heavy, Packs can be had for about 1 pound. Look at a Murmur, or Zpacks offerings.

Nix the Camp Towel MSR Camp Towel 0.9 0.06, bring a bandana at .5oz.

>Shelter & Sleeping: 64.85 4.05
Sleeping Bag Marmot Sawtooth Membrain Regular 52 oz/ GoLite Quilt 23 oz. 23 1.44
>Sleeping Pad Klymit Xframe 10 oz / Exped Downmat UL7 22 oz 22 1.38
>Shelter OR Alpine Bivy 30.5oz / Tarptent Squall 46 oz / Zpacks Hexamid 16 oz 16 1.00
>Shelter Stakes REI Aluminum Hook stakes (Bivy no stakes) 1.75 oz 1.75 0.11
>Drop Cloth Gossamer Gear Polychro 1.5 oz (not needed with Hexamid) 1.5 0.09
>Misquito Net Head net for use when Bivy isnt used 0.6 0.04

Use a 10x10 tarp at 15oz. Good for 2-3 people, can be set up airy or tight to ground.
Klymit and quilt? lots of draughts.
Sheperds hooks, 7 of them, weigh under 1.5oz.
Nix the mosquito net (you should have DEET.)

Depending on where you go, water/food storage is OK.

Lots more . . .

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Re: Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/28/2013 09:01:42 MDT Print View

#1. - go on your trip with just what you've got there on the list and have a hoot of a time.

#2 - make a list of what works and what does not while your are in your tent (wnatever) at night.

#3. - lose the frikk;n watch. just give the pos away to somebody who you don;t like.

cheers,
v.

Christopher Gilmore
(chrisjgilmore) - F - MLife

Locale: New Almaden
Getting realllly close....... Any feedback appreciated on 05/28/2013 22:01:06 MDT Print View

Wow OK I will have to take that all in James. That was specific and well thought out i will have to lay my gear all out and take a serious look at all of this one by one and maybe mix this with Peter's feedback and Merge the two. #2 - make a list of what works and what does not while your are in your tent (whatever) at night.

Peter,
That is good generic feedback and what I have done to get me this far. Take it all try it and not take anything I didn't use the last time. What is your issue with the Ambit?

Thanks
CG

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Rain gear on 06/01/2013 23:34:49 MDT Print View

Dri Ducks ("not needed in summer months")

Actually a rain parka IS needed to prevent hypothermia. Consider it a main "safety item". Also it doubles as a wind shirt, saving that weight.

An insulated jacket doubles to extend the lower temperature range of your sleeping bag.

What I'm saying is that some items can do double duty and save weight.

Another weight saver is eliminating a dedicated cat hole "shovel". Use an aluminum snow stake instead and it can also be used for staking your shelter in soft soil.

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
toothpaste? on 06/03/2013 12:22:25 MDT Print View

I have to admit that I don't have the time or inclination to digest your entire list, it feels unorganized and hard to get a firm handle on. Organized into a spreadsheet, with like items bunched into sub-categories, would help a lot.

Putting that aside, it seems you are getting a lot of advice about toothpaste. However you decide about toothpaste it isn't going to impact your weight in a meaningful way. Sure you can go without, or make some toothpaste dots (I weighed mine at 0.04 oz each dot), however you choose you won't feel the weight. HYOH.

All I can otherwise say is to take your kit apart and pick up each item individually, look at it carefully, and ask several questions about it:
- Do I really need it? Will I really use it? Or, in reverse, what's the worst that could happen if I don't have this with me?
- If you don't need it or won't use it, then ask if it is really needed as an "essential" for emergencies?
- If I do need/use it, do I need it in this form? Is there an alternative?
- Do I need this much of it?
- What about the packaging, can I eliminate or trim that down?
- Is there something else that will do the job? Especially among other things in your pack.

I have done this with every item in my pack, over and over and over again. What's amazing is how you can get your mind around your equipment better by repeating this exercise, which will lead you to cutting down on something on the third or fourth pass that seemed perfectly OK on the first passes. And I'm sure I will find more to cut as I continue to do this.

Another helpful exercise is to download a good UL pack list and your list, and examine them side by side. Look for things that are common to both lists but your weight is much higher. You may not feel you can upgrade that item now, but at least you've identified targets for your wish list. Look for things on your list that aren't on the UL list and really look closely at those. See if you can set a goal such as cutting out at least 25% of those. Recognize where you are "over" so you know what to focus on. You may see some things that you carry heavier but you conclude that is best for you, for example if the UL list has a torso-length thin foam sleep pad and you carry a XL full length airpad, at least you will know that if you choose to carry that extra weight you've identified it and reconciled it with what makes you comfortable. No problem with that.

Any one label out of a pair of underwear, or one night's worth of toothpaste, won't tip the scales. But the cumulative effect of taking a cut-to-the-bone approach to everything you own, trimming every extra gram you can find, can add up to real weight, so be ruthless in what you cut. But, also don't feel you need to deprive yourself of that last gram of comfort -- once your weight is down low enough you can feel free to add back a few small things that aren't essential but provide value to you, and by that point you will have the weight leeway to do it.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Snow stake for cat holes? on 06/03/2013 12:31:16 MDT Print View

"Another weight saver is eliminating a dedicated cat hole "shovel". Use an aluminum snow stake instead and it can also be used for staking your shelter in soft soil."

Actually, the Mega Dig cat hole trowel from QiWiz.net weighs slightly less than a 1.0 oz. snow stake, it can also be used as a stake to anchor your tent in soft soil, and it is superior to a snow stake for digging cat holes. There are numerous uses for this sweet titanium trowel.

robert van putten
(Bawana) - F

Locale: Planet Bob
+1 snow stake on 06/03/2013 14:31:52 MDT Print View

I love my 9" aluminum snow stake.
It weighs the same one ounce of that fancy titanium trowel, digs very well indeed, makes a fantastic heavy-duty stake for anchoring my Rainshadow 2 in soft soils
( which really does need a good solid stake-out in front! I then use two ordinary stakes in the back ).
.
.
.
.
And it cost me two bucks at REI instead of 36 bucks.

Mike Stromsoe
(phstudio) - F

Locale: So. Cal.
+2 snow stake on 06/03/2013 15:26:34 MDT Print View

If you have some tennis racket tape and a wee bit of CCF laying around you can customize yours. Mine added 0.2 ounces for a total weight of 1 ounce on the money. Digging cathole in comfort. ;)

stake