Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
2013 Spring Patagonia Houdini Pants / Jacket
Display Avatars Sort By:
Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Test Directly. on 01/08/2014 08:51:19 MST Print View

Ryan> Would one on clearance at REI at this point be the newer, less-breathable option, or is this possibly one of the last of the older, more breathable?

Why not test the one variable you're really interested in, directly? Just use the "Nisley Two Coffee Filter Test," as described above, and you're done. Can you fill your lungs in 9 seconds, give or take, by breathing through the fabric? Or does it take over a minute and a half? Remember to seal tightly around your mouth, and no nose breathing!

Edited by Bolster on 01/08/2014 08:59:55 MST.

Ryan "Rudy" Oury
(ohdogg79)

Locale: East Bay - CA
breath test on 01/08/2014 11:42:07 MST Print View

Yea, I missed that post earlier about the "coffee filter standard", per se. Will definitely do that and see how it performs. Thx

Ryan "Rudy" Oury
(ohdogg79)

Locale: East Bay - CA
re: breath test on 01/10/2014 07:53:35 MST Print View

Well, no luck... between the breath test, features and style # ending in 13, its definitely a newer less breathable option. Checked pretty much every other light jacket they had and the only one that felt substantially breathable was a North Face Torpedo, that weighed in at a whopping 10oz. There was a very basic, light Solomon that was more breathable than the new Houdini, less than the NF, but wasn't ready to pull the trigger until checked out some of the others mentioned on this thread like the Rab Cirrus or Arctyrex options. I'm very interested in myog stuff and the tyvek coverall to windbreaker conversion for $10 and a little sewing is something to look into as well.

Ryan "Rudy" Oury
(ohdogg79)

Locale: East Bay - CA
rei fleet running jacket?? on 01/16/2014 21:54:50 MST Print View

Anyone come across, or even own, the REI Fleet Packable jacket? Just found for the first time at rei and it seems like a great option. Has BY FAR the most breathable fabric of any jacket I've come across (based on the ever reliable breath test), so much so in fact, that it almost feels too breathable. But claims to be windproof to 40 mph, has a dwr for lite water resistance and weighs 6 oz. The fit was kinda poochy in the gut but a bit narrow in the shoulders so my normal Med was a shade snug to wear much under it. Only issue i can find is it doesn't have a hood. Otherwise, feeling like it could be a great option. And BTW, its only $60.

Anyone have experience with it??

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
REI Packable Fleet Running Jacket on 01/16/2014 22:06:52 MST Print View

I have it. While it is very good it also seems rather unexceptional. It deserves a hood. Very comfortable for active use. Wish the hem had an elastic cinch. Feels more durable than Houdini. The fit on the other hand, is not as good. I needed to size up or have reduced mobility. Pit and wrist mesh "vents" offer just enough without being drafty.

Edited by skomae on 01/16/2014 22:10:09 MST.

Klaus Kostenbauer
(KlausKostenbauer) - F

Locale: Canadian Maritimes
Re: about that distributor on 01/23/2014 19:01:10 MST Print View

I got my 2011 model from a small distributor in Manitoba (Canada); a lucky phone call got me their one jacket. However I notice that EBay has a regular trickle of 2nd hand Houdinis.

I moved away from the "Wild Things" jackets after writing down on paper what I want from a wind/rain jacket. What I wrote down was,

For the warm wet season, a light and fairly long water and wind resistant jacket over a Columbia nylon shirt and trousers, together with a broad brim nylon Tilley hat (every Canadian knows those) is all I want. I don't mind getting wet in warm weather, and I do mind cooking in my clothes. The Houdini, with some DWR, will be just fine.

For the cool season, a solid waterproof jacket that goes down to close to the knees, with a hood, gortex gaiters that come up to almost to the knees. Underneath, capilene or merino underwear, and polyester based trousers and shirt. (Polyester heats me more than Nylon, from my experience.) A forum member pointed me towards the Paramo, to which I am grateful. I ended up contacting Cioch for a customised model that is, above all, long, all way round. The forums mostly seem to agree that Paramo works meaningfully well in cool wet weather. Which describes most of the year in the Canadian Maritimes. When it's pouring buckets of cold water, I don't expect any jacket to perform. I take shelter.

I wonder why jackets are so short these days, just going to the belt. It must be a fashion thing, cause they sure used to be longer. I can see why climbers need short jackets (also the main market of Wild Things, so I get the point), but for hikers, longer is sensible as long as it doesn't impede mobility, which doesn't happen if the jacket stops short of the knees. Short jackets seem to require rain pants. With a long jacket and gaiters, it's just a few centimetres above and below the knee that remain exposed, and so be it.

Bottom line, for rain protection:
Summer - Houdini, gaiters, wide brimmed nylon hat (Tilley), nylon trousers and shirt
Spring, Automn - Paramo, gaiters, with capilene or merino base and polyester trousers and shirt.

Edited by KlausKostenbauer on 01/23/2014 19:19:40 MST.

William Wang
(billwang) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
Arcteryx Incendo Hoody breathability? on 02/02/2014 00:24:01 MST Print View

Does anyone know how the Incendo Hoody rates on breathability? Apparently it uses a "lumina" fabric. Thanks!

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2013 Spring Patagonia Houdini Pants / Jacket on 03/22/2014 03:21:26 MDT Print View

So what's the verdict on the newest Houdini? Is it a good jacket despite lower breathability?

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 10:18:44 MDT Print View

So from this discussion I learn that my Houdini is the newer model -- less breathable, more water resistant. Which makes me think about the possibility of leaving the rain jacket behind on trips where I don't expect lots of rain. Thoughts on that? In particular I'm going to do 9 days in Yosemite this July, could the Houdini serve as both my not-very-breathable windbreaker and also my rain jacket for the sporadic mid-summer Sierra storms I might encounter?

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 10:51:00 MDT Print View

Thats exactly what works well for me. If there is a chance of rain its a good idea to bring a disposable 1.5oz plastic poncho, store in a ziploc bag.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 11:14:35 MDT Print View

The new Houdini is less breathable, but as good or a bit better than mostvofcthe other current offerings.

It is not a rain jacket, with unsealed seams and will wet thorough. DWR treated windshirts are good for a light sprinkle, but that is it I strongly recommend NOT relying on a windshirt for rain gear.

I carry a poncho when I want the lightest rain gear (7oz). That gives coverage to below my knees and covers my pack too. It can be used for a rest or cook shelter strung from trees or brush and a regular shelter if used with a bivy. A poncho is far less expensive than the UL rain shells, has good ventilation, no tricky laundering, no zippers to fail, etc.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re: Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 11:29:38 MDT Print View

I feel like a wind shirt is enough even when it rains. It just depends if I want to keep hiking through prolonged rain or pitch my tarp and wait it out. I haven't really bought into the expensive rain jacket thing. I tried, I just bought and returned the new mh plasmic. I feel like the only time I would carry an expensive rain jacket is in cold wet alpine conditions.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 12:49:43 MDT Print View

You're going to wait out three weeks of constant drizzle, wet brush and overcast skies? I don't think so.

I'll give you 8 hours of precip and switchbacks in the Cascades or Olympics and see how you like your windshirt as rain gear. It's a brick on any gear list, but rain gear is a core essential.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 13:06:27 MDT Print View

A mid layer under a windshirt can keep you warm (while wet) in most conditions, but at that point you might as well just carry a rain jacket. So I don't consider a rain jacket a core essential, keeping warm is the essential thing, but a rain jacket is the most efficient way to keep warm in the rain.
How do you think they kept warm before rain gear? wool.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
houdini on 03/24/2014 13:16:07 MDT Print View

" rain gear is a core essential." -

It depends if it's cold and wet or you are in death valley the summer.

A 4oz houdini and 1.5oz plastic poncho is what I carry. The poncho is weatherproof and can be brought as rain gear. It's not fancy but it sheds water. Any condensation or rain that gets in will have to contend with the DWR on the houdini.

My new orange Houdini was about $80 and the ponchos are $0.88. What I get is a great combo for a sul 5.4 ounces.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 13:19:37 MDT Print View

How and when will you dry those wet layers? The ones that are now cold and wet once you stopped moving? Have you ever been hiking in 40f wet weather for several days? Your layering scheme is a classic setup for hypothermia.

I've been snowed on in June, followed with near freezing rain for hours and at relatively low altitudes. I hiked with light base, windshirt and cape with my insulation warm and dry in my pack for when I stopped. Once you sacrifice your insulation to "warm wet" use, you are literally at a layering dead end.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re: Re: Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 13:27:39 MDT Print View

YMMV,

If you don't bring enough we can always use our tent and take a break.

hwc 1954
(wcollings) - M
Houdini verdict on 03/24/2014 13:35:13 MDT Print View

>> So what's the verdict on the newest Houdini? Is it a good jacket despite lower breathability?

-----------

I have a 2013 Houdini Jacket and pants. Terrific fabric, very well made. My only complaint (and it's minor) is that they could have made the pocket the jacket stuffs into just a little bit bigger. I don't have any problem stuffing it, but I do have to work at it. It would be a little easier/quicker if the pocket were just a bit bigger.

The breathability is what it is. Less breathable than my Marmot Trail Wind hoody or other options (including the Houdini Nine Trails which is a houdini with breathable panels on the back). But, on a cold windy day when you want to block the wind, the reduced breathability is plus.

The pants are awesome. They weigh nothing and are the perfect addition to a pair of power stretch fleece or heavy baselayer pants to cut the wind.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: so can Houdini sub for a rain jacket? on 03/24/2014 13:39:59 MDT Print View

So all your travel and layering plans ( read personal safety ) are based on avoiding packing 7 ounces of rain gear? That doesn't make sense to me.

hwc 1954
(wcollings) - M
rain or wind on 03/24/2014 13:49:25 MDT Print View

11 ounces of rain jacket and rain pants is always the first thing that goes in my backpack. All rolled up neatly and packed away. I'm happy carry them all day and never have to pull them out and put them on. When I need them -- due to pouring rain or driving snow or unexpected wind/cold -- all those days of carrying them are worth it. If I had to choose between the rain gear and a windshirt (fortunately, the stuff is now so small and light that we don't have to choose), I would take the rain gear.