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Gregory Stein
(tauneutrino) - F

Locale: Upper Galilee
Re: Re: Re: So this post is about ... hate of UL gear? on 05/23/2013 13:32:12 MDT Print View

Nick,

I think Eric takes 10-20 pencils to be sure he have enough of them for 3 days hike. On longer hikes (up to 5 days) he also take pencil sharpener. Since he is in fashion with old *good* gear he takes this heavy duty sharpener:



which adds another 4 kilos to his total weight.

On hikes over 5 days his gear list contain also an electric sharpener + some extra AA, cr123 and button batteries he told us about. He take some 8-9 kilos of these I think.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Lead in your pencil on 05/23/2013 13:42:35 MDT Print View

The best UL pencil sharpener is the Palomino Blackwing Long Point Sharpener.


Palomino Blackwing Long Point Sharpener

http://www.levenger.com/Reading-17/Clips-Cutters-and-Tools-194/Palomino-Blackwing-Long-Point-Sharpener-Core-8373.aspx

Pencils and the shavings make great fire tinder, so dual purpose and survivalist :)

Gregory Stein
(tauneutrino) - F

Locale: Upper Galilee
Re: Re: Lead in your pencil on 05/23/2013 13:46:58 MDT Print View

Why not something like this:




???

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
intolerant on 05/23/2013 15:27:38 MDT Print View

strong vibrant religions by their nature tend to be somewhat intolerant of infidels and heretics ... stuff like crusades, jihads, inquisitions, discrimination ...

is UL a religion now ;)

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
distinction without difference on 05/23/2013 17:01:28 MDT Print View

Eric, I hear you. There was a question on an article this week asking about bear cans and SUL and Ryan's response was just add the two pounds, it's still SUL. I'm not proposing hard and fast arbitrary limits b/c those are ridiculous and drive poor decision-making in efforts to "make weight." But if it truly is a philosophy and not a secret sub-X-lb club, why is the series billed as SUL/M-SUL? People have mentioned a series years ago that was basically the same thing but with "UL" equipment. The new series has already said that developments in gear are what's responsible for allowing "SUL" weights in less than mild conditions. So it's an update of the prior series, not a whole new concept being introduced. But the choice of vocabulary (acronym, really) suggests there is a fundamental difference between a 7lb three-season mountain baseweight and a 11lb three-season mountain baseweight. For some people, that might be the case. For a lot of people though, I suspect the difference is about $1500 (~$500/each on cuben shelter, top of the line quilt, and sub 8oz/piece raingear and insulation). I'm not knocking the articles; they've been interesting and thought provoking so far. But I'm not convinced that M-SUL is in any way fundamentally different or better than plain old UL.

Jim Colten
(jcolten)

Locale: MN
Re: Gear Confessions on 05/23/2013 17:49:23 MDT Print View

I have never, ever, not even once failed to return home with at least 25% of the stove fuel I packed (alcohol).

And then there's my three boxes of matches, one being "stormproof", each box in it's own ziplock.

But regarding Eric's prolite ... we need to create a kickstarter project to fund his purchase of a neoair.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: distinction without difference on 05/23/2013 17:56:20 MDT Print View

"There was a question on an article this week asking about bear cans and SUL and Ryan's response was just add the two pounds"

Exactly - I was thinking the same thing

It's not whether you're less than some arbitrary number, there are a bunch of items and techniques which are applicable to different people in different situations

And a hatchet doesn't seem consistent with what most people would consider SUL, but if you enjoy taking a hatchet then you should do so.

Rob E
(eatSleepFish)

Locale: Canada
Re: Gear Confessions on 05/23/2013 17:58:09 MDT Print View

I took toilet paper on my last 7 day trip, and returned home with at least 1/4 roll remaining. For shame.

Tom Dowser
(DaFireMedic) - M

Locale: Southern California
Trying to lighten other things as well on 05/24/2013 09:20:56 MDT Print View

After carrying a laptop computer around in a backpack from my hotel room to a conference room (in "minimalist" casual shoes) for the last 3 days, my knees started hurting and I found myself looking for ways to go ultralight on that as well. By the way, my loaded computer backpack is significantly heavier than my backpacking base weight with a few days of food.

The UL mindset is leaching into my work life.

robert van putten
(Bawana) - F

Locale: Planet Bob
confession time... on 05/24/2013 15:12:00 MDT Print View

We’re doing gear confession, eh? OK, my turn.

Hi, I’m Bob and I’m a “heavy-holic”.

I’m trying to reform myself, really.
I’ve read Ray Jardines books and hung out here on BPL, and dropped so much coin on new lightweight gear last year that my wife thinks I’ve gone insane.
With our new lightweight shelters and sleeps systems my wife and I sleep so much poorer now while camping, but our backpacks are so much lighter!
Our new packs and rain gear do seem to work as well as our old stuff, but they certainly will not last anywhere near as long.
.
.
.
.
Seriously though, I doubt I’ll ever get to true ten pound base loads for anything but smiling summer trips, but I am now in the low teens and happy with that.
It would probably help if my favorite stove wasn’t made entirely of brass, ran on gasoline and came in a steel case.

Edited by Bawana on 05/24/2013 17:28:43 MDT.

Gregory Stein
(tauneutrino) - F

Locale: Upper Galilee
Re: Trying to lighten other things as well on 05/24/2013 15:21:58 MDT Print View

Youp!

I've switched from a 3 kilo laptop to 1.5 kilo laptop.
I always carry running gear to work because my workplace is at beach and I run there in mornings. Sometimes I run in a gym at mid day. So I carry my running gear in my daily pack.
After switching from an old fashioned road runners to a zero drop Saucony Hattori, the weight of my pack became so light! I've mentioned it on the first day. Now I'm not sweating so much when I run to train station after work day.

I'm utilizing UL techniques also in daily life. This makes my life easier and I enjoy it better.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: distinction without difference on 05/24/2013 18:03:51 MDT Print View

@spelt! Exactly!

Joel Benford
(Morte66)

Locale: Surrey flatlands, England
Re: Re: Gear Confessions on 05/25/2013 02:04:39 MDT Print View

Rob Edwards wrote: "I took toilet paper on my last 7 day trip, and returned home with at least 1/4 roll remaining. For shame."

Did you take the cardboard tube, or did you refold the toliet paper into a more efficient cuboid shape to reduce volume and overall pack size/weight?

If you refolded it, it's ok.

Tom Dowser
(DaFireMedic) - M

Locale: Southern California
Re: confession time... on 05/25/2013 16:04:47 MDT Print View

"I’m trying to reform myself, really.
I’ve read Ray Jardines books and hung out here on BPL, and dropped so much coin on new lightweight gear last year that my wife thinks I’ve gone insane.
With our new lightweight shelters and sleeps systems my wife and I sleep so much poorer now while camping, but our backpacks are so much lighter!
Our new packs and rain gear do seem to work as well as our old stuff, but they certainly will not last anywhere near as long. "

----------

Ray Jardine may have been a visionary back when he wrote his book, but many of his ideas have been passed up in favor of better ones or improvements on his that have come along since.

Your sleep issues need to be dealt with, regardless of the weight. I think the goal should be more like, "Whats the lightest system that I can get a comfortable nights sleep on" rather than just the lightest available. The whole idea of going UL is to make hiking more comfortable and enjoyable as a whole, which it certainly does overall. But any sleep that you lose to save weight goes directly against the over all goal.

As far as gear not lasting as long, that may be true with some things. But if taken care of, most ultralight gear is well built (albeit out of lighter materials) and will last a long time. I plan to use my down quilt, down jacket, stove system, shelter, etc for many years (at least until something newer and lighter comes along..he he he). I have yet to replace any of my major purchases just because of wear and tear, although I'm sure I eventually will.

I think we've all found many ways to save weight without sacrificing comfort, safety, or reliability. Sometimes there's a small sacrifice in convenience (Wood, Alcohol, or Esbit stoves as an example), but those drops in convenience are small and when put in the perspective of an overall ultralight goal, my knees and my back thank me at the end of a long day.

In the end, I would not be hiking today had I not discovered trekking poles and UL backpacking trends like the ones espoused in this forum. After an injury, my knees had said "no more" and I had to quit for years. But now I am back and having more fun than ever.

So I say "The lighter, the better" (unless there is good reason to go a tad heavier, like your sleep pad)

Edited by DaFireMedic on 05/25/2013 16:08:23 MDT.