I am searching for the lightest synthetic sleep system good for 25-30 temps. I want synthetic as I plan on camping in the Olympic rainforest in winter, very wet and humid conditions nonstop. While I can be careful and not expose the sleep system to direct water, humidity is another issue. However if people have not had problems with down in humid, damp conditions please tell me how. I am open to top bags, quilts, or regular bags. As a 6 footer I like to go with a long version for the extra coverage. Also my chest is a 45", so narrow bags are out. I currently have a 64" girth bag, and that is quite tight.

Ideally I want a 25 degree bag with at least 66" girth, and under 1.5 lbs. I have really not found such a thing. With synthetic is this even possible? Figured this would be the place to ask.

Thanks,

I cannot provide direct advice but I recommend listing any insulating clothing you carry that can be taken into consideration by those who use similar systems.

I think you'll find that most people using a SUL system similar to what you describe regularly use high-loft clothing to augment a lightweight 40-50 degree quilt, allowing them to be comfortable at the temps you mention.

Not possible. I think the lightest synthetic sleeping bag is the rated to 40 F TNF Propel, it's zipperless and tight cut and 21-22 oz.. The best hope, sizewise is the BMW synthetic quilt system, but even then, you're going to exceed your target weight, supplementing the Cocoon UL 180 quilt(under 20 oz.) with additional layers (insulated jacket and pants---benefit--multi-tasking layers) or the lighter Cocoon quilts ( UL 180 @20 oz. plus UL60 @ 11 0z.).

I have used pretty much exclusively down filled bags in the Pacific NW (and BC and Alaska) being very careful about managing the moisture that gets into a sleeping bags insulation. #1--be opportunistic about drying out your bag whenever sun and weather allows. #2---on longer trips in these conditions, I use a bivy bag on the outside of the bag (in the tent or snowcave) to keep the outside of the bag dry and #3 in temps. below freezing ( ideally mid-20's and below) I use a VBL to keep body moisture from getting into the insulation. #4--don't sleep breathing into the bag.

With proper attentiiveness, even in the Oympics, your down bag should not lose appreciable loft for 2 or 3 day trips. I must admit that the NW rainforests, especially in Winter would be a true test and I'd much rather be up on the glaciers. On longer trips, a bag cover and VBL or VB clothing are a necessity.

Why the Rain Forest in Winter? Kinky! :-)>

Edited by kdesign on 05/08/2007 12:59:30 MDT.

Have you considered the wide selection of Mont Bell bags? They have a stretch line in various different degree ratings in both Down and Synthetic fill.

I've researched this at length recently. You aren't going to find a 25 degree synthetic bag with those specs. Someone mentioned TNF Propel, and you can also look at the Marmot Pounder, which is rated at 40, but is more like a 50 degree bag. Weighs in at 16-18 oz. A buddy of mine swears by his. He layers and says he sleeps comfortably down to 35 degrees. He basically wears a midweight base layer, synthetic jacket, and hat. I haven't tried his set up, but I am pretty sure I would freeze.

Per a recent thread called "Synthetic Fill," the lightest known 30 degree bags are the Montbell bags, and TNF Fission. In the size you are looking at, they weigh 2lbs 2 oz. Last year's TNF Orion weighs slightly more but is good down to 30 degrees (rated at 20). Other bags are slightly lighter (MH and Sierra Designs) and rated at 32, but unlikely to keep you warm at that temp. There is a Marmot Pounder Plus that weighs in at 2lbs 2 oz. which is rated at 25 degrees, but is actually a little colder than that, according to most.

Other than that, your best and lightest bet is the Cocoon system or maybe a Ray-Way quilt, but if you include clothes (which I don't because I generally take those anyway if it is going to be 25-35 degrees), you can get near you weight.

Sorry Mike,

But as Al said, you are not going to any where near that weight with a manufactured bag.

However you can get there with a home-made one.
A 42" foot and 66" shoulder hoodless bag made with Momentuim and Climashield with a double layer on top can get you down to 25*.
This bag would come in under 24 ounces even with a zipper.
You would need some good insulating therms on to do this. Throw your jacket on as well and now you just need to worry about those cold feet.

I would highly recomend doing this if you are that seriously about getting down to that weight.

Edited by awsorensen on 05/08/2007 14:39:23 MDT.

Great suggestions. I am somewhat interested in making my own quilt or bag, so I will need to look further into that suggestion.

The reason for the rainforest in the winter, is to experience what it is like during the truly rainy season! Just a little bit crazy. Inspired by an article I read a few months ago by someone who did such a thing.

Really this was to confirm what all of you have been saying regarding synthetic fill. It just does not exist in that weight category, unless you do it yourself.

With daytime temps in the 40s and nighttime likely in the 30s, there is just not that much insulating gear to bring along. I am looking at something like a Micropuff or Thermawrap, but that is likely all. With hiking and raingear warmth is not usually a problem.

While this is just a single trip, I do really enjoy the Olympics, espically the low elevations and really want to enjoy the wet weather.

Thanks again for the great info. This site is awesome!

Aaron, have you made such a bag? If you've posted it, I probably missed it when I was overseas. Do you sleep very warm? Could you describe a 25 degree scenario w/ this homemade sleeping system? Shelter used, wind, clothing in the mix, etc.

Insatiably curious minds need to know!

I now own a Montbell UL Alpine #3 synthetic rated to 30 degrees. This is not the SS version which adds another 11 oz but the gathered quilt version that weighs in at exactly 33oz without a stuff sack. I had planned to write a review after several more outings, but I can give you a first impression after one outing. Temps were down to about 40 degrees with no wind. This bag was very warm even though I used it as a quilt. I unzipped it so that only 22" remained zipped and slept on my Downmat 7 shortie with a small square of 1/8" evazote under my feet. I am 6'3" and weigh 175 lbs and sleep warm most nights. I had on a pair of REI silk LJs and top and can honestly say that I was impressed with how comfortably and warm I slept. The proprietary synthetic fill, excelon, drapped almost as well as down and compressed very well when stuffed using a Intregal Gear small stuff sack. It compressed to about the size a football.
As as already been commented upon, most UL and SUL hikers create a sleep system. By adding and subtracting clothing layers in the bag, one can add up to about 10-15 degrees to a bag's warmth. So, in the case of The MB #3 synth fill bag rated to 30 degress (which I might add is spot on) one could achieve your 25 degree rating with little effort by adding wool LJ and top or a light fleece layer or one of MB's UL jackets and pants.
I would point out that I did not zip the bag up or attempt to use it as a mummy bag. I think that the fit of the bag despite demensions of 64" at the shoulder and 50" at the hips is more snug than it would suggest. But looking for low weight and warmth comes with some compromises. I think this bag would keep most people warm to its rated 30 degrees and perhaps to 25 degrees if zipped up and cinched down when combined with my downmat which has R rating of 4.9.
One last comment: The long was snug on me end to end even though I own two other MBs in the same length and would classify them as roomy end to end. I think they shave a little on sizing for the synth bags. If you are the top of the regular size, go with the long.

Mr. D,
I figured I would get this type of response from someone.
I am just looking at the over all Clo of the bag that with clothing should/ would work.

I would make it with the double insulation at 42” from top to bottom and a single layer on the bottom.
The zipper would run along the bottom portion where the 42” seam meets the bottom.

As long as the bag had a snug fit, I wouldn’t see a problem with 25*.
I have taken my climashield and momentuim clothing and down ½ bag down to 25* no problem
The top is 8 oz, bottom 6.8 oz, and the 40”x48” bag is 12.5 oz, (and a beanie).
With just the bottoms on I was plenty warm with out any else at that temp.
They were only a single layer as well, so being enclosed in a double layer bag should stand up to the task. I would only rate a bag like this at about 32-35*, but with clothing in play could see it get down to that.
I am not a warm sleeper either.
Cheers

Edited by awsorensen on 05/08/2007 18:00:12 MDT.

If you want to make your own take I look at this one I made out of 2 layers of Climashield Combat. It weighed 17 ounces and I have slept in it down to 26 degrees. I was wearing no insulated clothing inside the bag.


17 ounce Climashield Combat Sleeping Bag

If I was making the same bag today I would use one layer of the new 3.5 ounce per sq yard Climashield Combat.

Trolling pays. >:-)> That's Dr. D(ee) to you ( English history buffs leap in). ;-P

Seriously, you or somebody should build the bag. I think it sounds like a good concept whether made as a bag or a quilt.

Mike,

Fanatic Fringe in Boise (www.fanaticfringe.com) makes a Polarguard Delta quilt rated to 30F that weighs in at 1.4 lb for $189. They'll customize the length for you if you'd like. They might even customize the width if you ask them.

Bill

Mitchell, I've been drooling over that bag since I tried it on at the Montbell store. Looking forward to your full review.

I would recommend the broad version of the Integral Designs Primaloft bag they call the Andromeda Strain. Primaloft is the superior wet weather insulation and Integral Designs is famous for making the best of these type of bags. It is light as well.

Look at closer to two pounds plus wearing insulating clothing.

Dondo:
Look for my reader review after early June when I get back from a trip I have planned for 4 nights near Thousand Islands Lake in the Eastern Sierras. I hope to use this bag exclusively as a quilt although I will certainly try a night zipped up as a bag. I am used to the SS bags and their wonderful stretchiness and usually need that stretchiness since I am toss-n-turner at night. This bag is cut closer even with the gathered quilt interior and is shorter than the SS bags even though it does not state this in the specs. The hood is also cut much like a parka hood. So, I am going to be looking at the issue of fit most closely for someone like me at 6'3" with a slender build.

Hi,

There's always a Ray-Way quilt kit...inexpensive, pretty easy to sew, light and warm. My wife and I use the two-person, and it is great. I've never used the 1-person quilt, though.

>There's always a Ray-Way quilt kit


My wife and I made a Ray-Way Quilt, deluxe 1-person with a third layer of 0.75" Polarguard 3D (it's my winter quilt). I cut it to my exact desired dimensions and it was fairly easy to make. We made the Bomber Hat first, just to get some experience working with the silnylon. It was worthwhile (and the 1.0 oz hat works great, too).

Edited by Otter on 05/09/2007 21:35:46 MDT.

Bill,

Where do you get your Climashield Combat?

Bill T.