Forum Index » GEAR » A McHale demo pack arrived today


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K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Y'all ain't got nothin on me on 07/14/2013 21:43:05 MDT Print View

small

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Shaving on 07/14/2013 22:20:59 MDT Print View

Edited for Max.

Edited by kthompson on 07/14/2013 22:21:45 MDT.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
math on 07/14/2013 22:58:07 MDT Print View

I wonder if somebody could do the simple addition on that invoice to affirm that I did not charge Herman more than $75.00 for shipping. What is it - 2nd grade math? I would appreciate it. The minus $78.00 charge at the bottom is simply some shoulder pouches that were on the order by mistake.

Better yet, I will just list the items so they are easy to read and add them up. Thanks.

Edited by wildlife on 07/14/2013 23:18:17 MDT.

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
"A McHale demo pack arrived today" on 07/14/2013 23:18:14 MDT Print View

Dan I already did and you are right, he was only charged $75 for shipping... End of story

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
thanks on 07/14/2013 23:19:07 MDT Print View

Thanks Mike!

Edited by wildlife on 07/14/2013 23:34:36 MDT.

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
re: math on 07/14/2013 23:43:14 MDT Print View

The calculations look in order, it looks like it was only $75 total for shipping, so no problems there.

I feel like there needs to be some kind of proper discussion, probably elsewhere because it is off-topic, about the problems that have been hitting the forums lately with regard to cottage manufacturers defending themselves against reports of poor user experiences (eg McHale and SMD threads). I'll outline my view briefly, but maybe it is worth beginning a new thread about it. I for one feel that people have made too much of the responses from vendors in these situations.

The way I see it is that people want to have their cake and eat it too. BPL users often laud the fact that cottage vendors frequent the forums, use the forums to receive feedback on/develop products, answer user questions, clarify issues etc etc. New cottage vendors have even started up with the input and support of this great community.

But I can’t help but feel that there have been some unreasonable expectations of how these vendors should behave. It seems to me that where vendors have attempted to defend themselves against public complaints, they have been unreasonably attacked by the community. There are the usual cries that the vendor should just let it go quietly, that they are doing their business more harm than good, that it isn’t worth it to be defensive in public, that “the customer is always right”. But I think that loses sight of the bigger picture and a growing phenomenon across the web and commerce in general.

The fact of the matter is, word of mouth is a completely different beast than it was a while back and particularly in the age of large forums like this and the amount of trolling that goes on, I think it is perfectly understandable that vendors come on here to offer their side of the story. We love that they are here to discuss their products and philosophy other times, we love that we can put a face to the business, we love that we can support local manufacturing, small business, custom designs with real user input, and so on - so why can’t we handle it when they comment on ugly transactions? I know most big business love to sweep problems under the carpet and send people out their hush money/product, but is that really what we want from our cottage manufacturers? If this community is to continue to be as great a resource as it has always been, vendors should be able to come here and offer their side of the story – it gives us all a better insight into the transaction and the product. And does anyone really blame Dan for giving a bit of lip when he is confronted by unhelpful negative comments ad nauseum?

This thread began with someone excited about the product they received, praising its workmanship and design. It was followed by what was a slightly (but not overly) provocative line of questioning about the packs being worth the cost. I must admit I was surprised at the total cost of the invoice just posted – but I also think that that is the cost of custom work, and actually getting to have input into the design and getting something made bespoke. I don’t expect TJ Maxx prices when I go to a tailor to get a suit made, so I dont really understand the line of questioning about the price. And I think this comes back to the same issue of people expecting to have personal access to cottage manufacturers without all of the consequences that necessarily come with it (eg. higher prices, responses to grievances aired in the forums). C'mon guys, get real.

Edit: I've removed personal references because we really don't need it.

Edited by philthy on 07/15/2013 00:30:50 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: re: math on 07/14/2013 23:58:21 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 14:54:46 MST.

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
no thanks on 07/15/2013 00:05:25 MDT Print View

Edit: I've removed personal references because we really don't need it.

Edited by philthy on 07/15/2013 00:31:22 MDT.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
Life saver on 07/15/2013 00:15:18 MDT Print View

Thank You Philip. That post of yours was a good as Saving Private Ryan!

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 00:15:57 MDT.

Herman E
(hre814) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Posting user experiences on 07/15/2013 00:15:38 MDT Print View

My post, with the exception of a $75 error (peanuts on an $1100 pack), merely mentioned to beware the creep of extras that you want. I asked and received what I wanted and the price crept up on me. Not that Dan was ripping me off, but that all the bells and whistles I wanted added up. And for the OP (who only had a demo, and did not have a new piece of gear) to be wary of that, as he was going to be in the process of building a new pack through Dan. As well that the cost wasn't worth it to me. I don't see that as being negative towards a manufacturer. I think posters have a right to make known to other buyers if the quality, price, experience, customer service, or whole package was not to their liking.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
demo on 07/15/2013 00:17:49 MDT Print View

You had a demo for months Herman. If you were not happy because of decisions you made, take responsibility for it. I didn't make you buy the damn pack. You got the price list before we made the pack. Just like the shoulder pouches were taken off the pack, you could have deleted plenty. YOU added all the extra dyneema. There were no surprises - nothing crept up on you. You knew EVERYTHING about the price before you had it made. As for customer service, there is absolutely nothing in the 182 emails between us I wouldn't be happy to post. I have all of it.

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 00:31:35 MDT.

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
Re: Posting user experiences on 07/15/2013 00:19:54 MDT Print View

I definitely agree Herman.

Seeing the invoice really drilled it home to me what a McHale pack might cost if I decided to get one down the track. I think that is worth being out in the public domain - because it is difficult to see JUST how much it might cost to get it made, all told.

But it is also good that the issue surrounding the $75 shipping is now resolved and is there for all to see. If Dan hadn't been here to correct that, we may have all thought that he had taken you for a ride, rather than just having expensive backpacks.

Herman E
(hre814) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Responsibility on 07/15/2013 00:28:36 MDT Print View

I did take responsibility for it. I paid $1100 for a pack that I still have and stopped using this summer and now collects dust. I was excited when I got it, but soon realized,it wasn't worth it. No one made me buy the pack, pay that much, or add on the extras. I am allowed to say it wasn't worth it to me. I don't see that as negativity.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
response on 07/15/2013 00:37:35 MDT Print View

You are not taking responsibility for your decisions. If you did you would not be bringing it up. You don't get that. The time to think about whether it was going to be worth it was while you were demoing it. You are being a hypocrite. It sounds real innocent to think you can just blurt out that it wasn't worth it too you, without looking at all the things that can mean. It does not look good coupled with claiming I greatly overcharged you for shipping on top of it, when that was not true. What is true about any of it?

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 00:48:39 MDT.

Herman E
(hre814) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
What??? on 07/15/2013 00:48:48 MDT Print View

I don't understand that. No hypocrisy. I spent money, which was worth something, in exchange for something, which turned out to not live up to what I was hoping. I'm the one who earned and spent my $1100, I think I'm a pretty good judge of what is or is not worth it to me.

I'm done Dan, feel free to get in the last word. The stage is yours. You did so very eloquently in an email today where you told me to "F*** off".

Later.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
again on 07/15/2013 00:52:16 MDT Print View

Again, you had the chance to make that determination when you had the demo which you had for more than enough time. You got the exact same pack when you had one made. I have even offered to help you with the one you have. I even told you just yesterday how to fix the strap problem you were having with the lid. It was all in the DVD. After all that time you did not see such a simple thing in the DVD. It means you did not even watch it. To top it off, you brought up none of this with me before you went public. The very last email you sent me mentioned things were going well with the pack but it was pulling back on the shoulders more than you liked. I made some suggestions and you NEVER followed through.

"Blame Yo Self" That was said by another Herman.

This is my last email exchange with Herman in 2012 below. I did not hear back from him after that. I edited his last name here to protect his privacy. My response is in the upper repeated section of the email below:


From: Herman E.
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:46 PM
To: dan.mchale@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pack

Thanks Dan for the quick reply. The internal stays are shortened and I have the bayonets in with the load lifting bypass system. As far as shaping the pack, are you talking about putting your knee into the frame to give it a slight bend? " Yes, with the knees. You might just try using the long lower frame with the upper bayos in – you know how you kept pushing me to go shorter on the fit, but pulling back could just be a function of where your heavy stuff is. Packing is important, and then shaping."

I will try the seam grip. Do you then glue the outside when you're done with the inside? I will give it a try. "It will probably hold just glued from the inside with a couple layers. You could do the outside if you don’t mind how it looks. You might try patching a scrap of something first just to learn about the Grip."

Herman


On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:42 PM, wrote:

which configuration of the pack do you mean? Carrying weight as close to the back as possible and higher in the is best plus you need to shape the pack before putting it on like we have done w the demo. Do you have Seam Grip urethane. The best cosmetic fix is to tape the outside temporarily while you glue the inside.

From: Herman E
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 1:33 PM
To: mailto:dan.mchale@comcast.net
Subject: Pack

Dan,

Herman E here in Alaska. Pack is working out. Had a couple of questions:

(1) Wanted to know if you have suggestions for fitting. I feel the shoulder straps pulling back at my shoulders, more that I would like. Would bending the stays help with that at all?

(2) Had an accident which involved a knife and the pack, small 1/5 inch cut into the green grid fabric. Best solution for fixing this? I have some silk surgical thread that I was thinking about stitching it with and then putting a patch inside and outside. Thoughts?

Appreciate any help,

Thanks!

Herman E
Eagle River, AK

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 01:38:39 MDT.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
not worth it on 07/15/2013 01:30:08 MDT Print View

Based on dan Mchales attitude alone I would never want to do business with him. He had his chance to not act like a complete fool. I really want to see the email where he told him to **** off.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
mirror on 07/15/2013 01:31:57 MDT Print View

When I'm with assholes I tend to mirror assholes. Don't worry, you won't be getting a pack. People that have been around since the dawn of the internet call it 'No Soup for You!" Guys like you never quit - you are like a disease.

He doesn't need to send the last email. I will quote it. It was very simple. I told him to;

" F__k Off."

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 01:49:40 MDT.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
mchale is a dunce on 07/15/2013 01:48:46 MDT Print View

Congratulations you just ruined any last bit of reputation you might have had left in the minds of these readers. Maybe business is slow right now, maybe that's why you seem to have all this extra time spent posting here. Most certainly this will all come and bite you in the ass later on though, the internet doesn't forget, and it leaves scars like wildfire.




Quoted text before he deletes it:
When I'm with assholes I tend to mirror assholes. Don't worry, you won't be getting a pack. People that have been around since the dawn of the internet call it 'No Soup for You!" Guys like you never quit - you are like a disease.

He doesn't need to send the last email. I will quote it. It was very simple. I told him to;

" F__k Off."

Edited by M.L on 07/15/2013 01:54:42 MDT.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
McHale demo....ho hum on 07/15/2013 01:51:29 MDT Print View

No, the internet knows exactly what you are. The internet is not stupid.

Edited by wildlife on 07/15/2013 02:22:43 MDT.