Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?"
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Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 20:04:01 MDT Print View

Discuss.

Edited by T.L. on 04/21/2013 20:06:20 MDT.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 20:53:52 MDT Print View

Because terror is an unknown that causes fear. People are comfortable thinking they know all the answers.

Gun death - very little unknown.

Bad guys: use it as leverage to commit robbery, rape and murder.

Good guys: use it for self defense to kill an intruder committing robbery, rape and murder.

People don't care too much about war death, traffic DUI drinking-and-driving death, or air pollution cancer death, or "infected at the hospital" death, airplane/bus/train crash death.

25 years ago, the popular trend was worrying about AIDS death, and feeding the African children dying from hunger.

Now that is also "meh" apathy.


All those death categories are in the thousands every year, and if they get reported on the news its less than 5 secs mention on the news "...car accident fatality on the freeway in Los Angeles, car bomb in Iraq kills 3, and now with the results of the Oscars movie awards..."

Terror death is a tiny number, but aside from politics, it's a factor that we believe is out of our control, and creates fear because we don't know how to mitigate it.

however we believe that if we have airbags and car insurance, we can survive a car crash, so that risk is mitigated, and we don't worry too much about it, other than saying "drive safely, good bye"

Edited by RogerDodger on 04/21/2013 21:58:17 MDT.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 21:53:58 MDT Print View

"Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?"

Because the media tells them to. The incident in Boston has been a complete media cluster f$%k.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
"Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 22:01:10 MDT Print View

My take:

The daily gun deaths in this country are largely driven by socio-economics. If you want to get to the bottom of this, you'd better be prepared for a really hard discussion about your own society and how it is failing people. Apparently, that's not what our "news" is for.

Terror attacks are driven by ideology in opposition to the dominant culture. It's therefor easy and more convenient write the perpetrator off as an outsider, as an extremist or fanatic, whether they come from abroad or are homegrown.
As opposed to forcing us to take a hard look in the mirror, being attacked by the "outsider" allows us to set aside differences and rally together against what's perceived to be a common enemy.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 22:27:07 MDT Print View

I'm not convinced anyone "Lost their heads." The media didn't lose their heads (at least no more so then they normally do). The media reports on events that are unique and dramatic not routine. 24/7 coverage of a big story is expected

I don't think we as American's lost our heads. There was random act of violence where we didn't expect one and the potential for more violence at equally random places. It was natural for people to be interested in the story.

I don't think officials lost their heads. There was a bombing and a firefight with individuals who where thought to have military style training. They had a good idea where the suspect was so the locked the area down to facilitate a man hunt. Maybe they overreacted by locking down too large an area, but your average fugitive doesn't have bombs or a desire to kill large numbers of people randomly.

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
"Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 22:28:10 MDT Print View

That was nicely said, Craig.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 23:01:26 MDT Print View

>>24/7 coverage of a big story is expected

And why is that? How much wrong information was disseminated and how many thousands of times were the same handful of facts repeated b/c nothing new was available? Information drives our society. What we choose to do with it when something bad happens is a reflection of us. Repeat something often enough and people believe it. 24/7 coverage of scary, violent acts undoubtedly shapes how we view each other. I think we lost our heads a long time ago and the state of hypervigilance and fear is the new normal.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker)

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/21/2013 23:13:11 MDT Print View

Why does it matter how many gun deaths we have? Is there something about gun deaths that make them particularly horrendous? Why not cite all murders instead of just gun murders?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 23:17:41 MDT Print View

well said Luke and Craig

Boston is rare so it's news

Low socio-economic areas that have lots of gun violence aren't news

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Re Who Lost their heads on 04/21/2013 23:23:54 MDT Print View

Jerry did two of us just agree? I must be dreaming:)

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 23:24:31 MDT Print View

Except on very rare occasions, I don't watch any of the major news networks as I find them to be a sub par source of information. I believe that the U.S. has the news we deserve because we'd rather be entertained than informed. I'm not a self-loathing American but watch any of the Hannity/Olberman personalities on TV and it's hard to believe otherwise (yes I'm aware that Keith has moved on to greener pastures.)

If I turn on any of the cable news channels, I expect stories of less significance to be recirculated throughout the day as that is what they've always delivered in the past. I didn't see that this was televised any worse or better than Columbine, Sandy Hook, Iran Hostage Crisis, etc.

As far as gun violence goes, I think its just a simple matter that we've been desensitized to it. It will be a sad day when a terrorist bombing in the U.S. isn't newsworthy.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 23:27:09 MDT Print View

"Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily CAR deaths?"

Which are way more than gun deaths. Not even taking into account the air pollution that contributes to many more deaths.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/21/2013 23:35:35 MDT Print View

I lived without a TV for two years and am currently in a house with a TV. It's impossible to watch anymore. Inane. Infuriating. I get my news from the internet (with adblock) but I realize I'm privileged to be able to do so. Not everyone has time to read in-depth articles and check sources and whatnot. For a lot of people TV news is the only source that's practical to access. I don't think it's what they deserve; everyone deserves better.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Re Re Who Lost their heads on 04/21/2013 23:36:49 MDT Print View

Edit speaking of poor news anybody else think this article could be written better?

Seems like lots of oversimplification and false equivalences. His argument is basically "America freaked out over Boston but didn't pass gun laws after Newtown, therefore America has misplaced priorities."

Maybe our priorities are wrong, or maybe there is a difference between reforming guns laws AND mental health laws, AND privacy laws and a mayor making a snap decision in the middle of a crisis?

Edited by Cameron on 04/21/2013 23:39:11 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/22/2013 00:05:42 MDT Print View

"I don't think it's what they deserve; everyone deserves better."

Ethically I agree with you. I believe that journalists should be held to a high standard. The problem is that every time someone tunes in to a politically biased screaming match vs a program with anything resembling journalistic integrity, FOX/NBC/CNN/etc takes notice. I see this as a consumer driven industry.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/22/2013 00:18:52 MDT Print View

I have to disagree with you somewhat. Visual media marketing leans heavily on innate emotional tendencies. Our brains crave stimulation and watching a pundit cage match pushes those buttons way more than simple reporting. The people running the stations know this is a reliable way to raise ratings and they have to win that game to be profitable. Sensationalism in journalism has been around a long time, but I think it's only since the cable news era that it's gotten so ubiquitous it's become synonymous with what people think of as "news."

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 04/22/2013 00:24:11 MDT Print View

Could this please be moved to chaff?

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 04/22/2013 04:36:35 MDT Print View

I thought about putting it there, except that Chaff has functionally ceased to exist.

Plus, this is "On the Web."

Edited by T.L. on 04/22/2013 06:58:25 MDT.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 04/22/2013 05:03:46 MDT Print View

>Boston is rare so it's news

>Low socio-economic areas that have lots of gun violence aren't news




I think that's the author's point. Why do we essentially as a society not give a Fu&k about certain things?

Yes, there are many more car deaths than gun deaths. It's the tool and the way it is used which makes the gun deaths more a hot-button issue. If someone accidentally pulls out in front of somebody at an intersection or hits a patch of ice going 70 MPH, any injury or death is greatly tragic. Same as those stories of a true gun accident. But those deaths imply something different about our society than when a kid walks into a school and blows away 20 other kids. In both cases, loss of life is terrible, but if you look at the REASONS behind each instance, very different pictures emerge. Death from a terrorist bombing is much closer in INTENT to gun violence than it is to traffic accidents.


And if measures can be taken to decrease traffic deaths and increase safety, then I'm all for that. Oh, wait. Isn't that big government putting its nose in our business and taking away more of our rights?

Edited by T.L. on 04/22/2013 05:14:18 MDT.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 04/22/2013 06:44:53 MDT Print View

Not in MY backyard.

Let everyone have guns, and let criminals beware. The mailman better watch out... Bringing ME bills...errrghhh.

Religious/ethnic disputes are responsible for more violence than anything else. Maybe we should outlaw religious and ethnic groups?

If we were to surrender to the Islamic Jihad, who would we surrender to?

Ben Crocker
(alexdrewreed) - M

Locale: Kentucky
The ho-hum gun deaths on 04/22/2013 06:45:04 MDT Print View

I live in a small town of about 50,000. In the last month we have lost 2 good men, one of whom was a good friend of mine. Both of these deaths speak much louder to the need for some gun rules than Newtown or the recent Boston terrorism. But I have not heard anyone here even make a connection between these incidents and the need for some rules regarding guns.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: The ho-hum gun deaths on 04/22/2013 07:52:57 MDT Print View

It's interesting that most people at least want more background checks, but special interests make most politicians against this.

We need to eliminate special interest influence of our government.

Yet gun control seems to be very ineffective.

For these publicized incidents, in most cases the perpetrators talk about it before hand so if people just knew what to look for and communicated to the authorities, maybe most of them could be prevented

For the 1000s of gun deaths, maybe make education cheaper?

Maybe all males should be locked up from age 18 to 28 or so? No, that's not practical.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who "Lost their heads" on 04/22/2013 08:01:14 MDT Print View

"The people running the stations know this is a reliable way to raise ratings and they have to win that game to be profitable. Sensationalism in journalism has been around a long time, but I think it's only since the cable news era that it's gotten so ubiquitous it's become synonymous with what people think of as "news.""

I'd attribute it more to when networks decided that the news had to be profitable. That wasn't the case in the 'golden days' of news. When you have to be profitable, you have to pander.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re Re Re Who Lost their heads on 04/22/2013 08:15:30 MDT Print View

"Edit speaking of poor news anybody else think this article could be written better?"

It's not an 'article,' per se, it's a commentary. But I agree with the oversimplification and false equivalences, and just flat out making stuff up.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 04/22/2013 08:53:16 MDT Print View

500+ people killed daily by hospital / doctor errors. Why don't we go for the greater good, and focus on that?

And gun control might get farther if it didn't focus on punishing the law-abiding. Although a large portion of the US thinks it is possible to legislate crazy.

Paul Mason
(dextersp1) - F
Perspective on 04/22/2013 09:20:35 MDT Print View

490,000 people die each year as a result of tobacco related products - why is there no outrage about that? Why no wall to wall coverage about that? Why no posts about eliminating tobacco?

Rifles killed 323 in 2011 - we need an assault ban

How about the racial issue in all the recent news? White middle class people/children get killed and society must do something.

Yet, the drug/gun/crime in the inner cities take many more lives then the gun issue.

Why do people talk about the guns- they can feel righteous and they don't have to think or do anything.



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Edited by dextersp1 on 04/22/2013 09:34:18 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
The ho-hum gun deaths on 04/22/2013 09:23:25 MDT Print View

I think it also has a great deal to do with the direction in which the violence flows.

"Terrorist" attacks largely flow upwards, that is, the violence doesn't follow class lines/boundaries and can hurt people in any part of the class spectrum. That scares people and upsets the status quo.

The staggering daily gun violence numbers in this country are largely driven by young males at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum. This violence flows evenly or downward across class lines. So "nobody" pays attention, at least nobody outside of those communities. But if/when this violence happens to spill across a class line and go up the ladder to hurt "somebody", you're more likely to hear about it on the "news".

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: The ho-hum gun deaths on 04/22/2013 11:14:40 MDT Print View

>>So "nobody" pays attention, at least nobody outside of those communities. But if/when this violence happens to spill across a class line and go up the ladder to hurt "somebody", you're more likely to hear about it on the "news".

Exactly right. How many women of color disappeared from their communities that no one ever heard about during the months the world was searching for white, upper class, on-vacation Natalie Holloway?

Paul Wagner
(balzaccom) - F

Locale: Wine Country
Bears vs. driving to the trailhead on 04/22/2013 13:01:48 MDT Print View

Why do backpacking magazines spend so much time talking about bears, and no time talking about the most dangerous thing we ever do on a backpacking trip--which is drive to the trailhead?

It's because bears are rare and seem exotically dangerous. Driving is neither. It's just a lot more deadly.

How many people would read a backpacking magazine if the cover touted: Ten Ways to Make your Drive to the Trailhead safer? And included such tips as "keep to the speed limit, and signal before making a turn?

But talk about using wasp spray as a bear deterrent, and you can get a whole column in the magazine!

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Driving to the Trailhead? on 04/22/2013 15:18:24 MDT Print View

How about driving back from the trailhead, when you're dead tired, famished, and the only thing in your mind is getting a burger and fries with a cold beer! That's gotta be teh worst combination ever! ;)

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
"News" on 04/22/2013 15:42:44 MDT Print View

It's not that malicious people. News media attempts to tell you something you didnt already know. Boston was new news. violence in "poor America" is not new, we already know about that. throw a couple stories about car chases and drive-bys up on the wall each evening and you've pretty much exhausted the subject. Now, put up a new gun-control law and all of a sudden gun deaths is news again, since it relates to important "new" legistation being considered. If the news instead focused on improving society and educating people, they would cease to exist. There are other entities pursuing these loftier goals. News media just entertains and informs, with the former being slightly more important, by necessity.

And stop this silly notion of "holding our journalists to a higher standard". As long as journalists work for big media, and big media makes money based on how many people watch...Then the math is simple. The "standards" the journalist is held to is the "standards" of the average american TV audience.

I dont see so much politics, conspiracy, or dishonesty here as much as I see basic free market economics. As Americans get poorer, we get dumber and our media just reflects what we want to watch. I'm not saying poor people are dumb. I'm saying that for many Americans who must work very hard just to make ends meet, the most important thing a TV can do is take their mind off the bullshit for a while, entertain them and tell them who won the damn game.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re News on 04/22/2013 15:54:39 MDT Print View

I agree that "holding the media to a higher standard" isn't going to work. As long as we are happy to watch sloppy reporting they'll keep doing it. What we could do would be teach more logic and critical thinking skills in school. Maybe a better educated society would support a better media? Maybe our politicians would make good arguments about issues rather then oversimplifying, and resorting to ad hominum attacks? We can always dream.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
@ Luke on 04/23/2013 14:33:52 MDT Print View

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I personally hold them accountable by who I listen to and who I've turned off. I'm fairly conservative and should be low hanging fruit for Fox but I can't remember the last time I watched them or have been to their website.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
"Daily gun deaths?"--LOL on 06/27/2013 01:17:14 MDT Print View

m

s

d

un

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 06/27/2013 05:52:27 MDT Print View

Ho-hum, here we go again. It's always so predictable how these "discussions" go, both sides. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Did I leave out any "overs"? :-)

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re:Americans. on 06/27/2013 06:19:50 MDT Print View

Sigh.

I think you left out two overs Miguel.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re:Americans. on 06/27/2013 07:22:19 MDT Print View

Oops! I thought I was a little short.

...and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. That ought to cover it, and then some. Wake me when the crickets stop chirping...

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re:Americans. on 06/27/2013 08:03:02 MDT Print View

Maybe talk about abortion or gay marriage instead?

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re:Americans. on 06/27/2013 08:43:31 MDT Print View

Hee hee... I think you got me there. ;-)

John Taylor
(jtaylor) - F

Locale: Shenandoah
Change the subject on 06/27/2013 08:46:56 MDT Print View

Maybe talk about the failed education system which helped create a generation that is wholly ignorant of the founding principles of this country. Wholly ignorant of the Constitution and the rights guaranteed by it. Wholly ignorant of the hundreds of thousands of lives that paid for their way of life and the sacrifices affecting millions of families.

Gun control equates to trampling a portion of the Constutution. If you don't like the Second Amendment than work within the system to get it repealed. Otherwise stop trampling the rights of others.

Edited by jtaylor on 06/27/2013 08:57:08 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Change the subject on 06/27/2013 09:02:23 MDT Print View

No one is taking your guns away.

This whole issue is a distraction so you won't notice that they are slowly eroding the educational system and other things.

And a psychological program to sell more guns. I bet the NRA secretly contributes to politicians that advocate gun regulations : )

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths?" on 06/27/2013 10:51:37 MDT Print View

Simple...

We can kill each other... we just don't want anybody else to kill us.







Its like brothers I know. They can fight each other- its ok. But when somebody else messes with one of them, he's gonna have to fight both of them.

Edited by WoodenWizard on 06/27/2013 10:53:50 MDT.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker)

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Change the subject on 06/27/2013 11:37:23 MDT Print View

Right, and no one is spying on the American public because they said so.

Of course they want to take our guns away. They have to appear as moderates and take it one step at a time to get any votes. They want the second amendment to consist of single shot rifles locked up at the shooting range with excessive fees and regulations that prevent everyone but the wealthy and elite from owning a firearm. Admitting their true intentions would be political suicide.

Don't be so gullible.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Ever notice on 06/27/2013 15:06:07 MDT Print View

Gun fanatics are generally right wing supporters of using tax money to build a military that no country on earth can match, and thus they can never defeat.

Hilarious. Delusional too.

On one day they go 'Rah Rah Rah, USA, we are so strong and great !'

The next they are philosophical protectors of our freedoms from that same government they empowered to weild the largest military on earth that no sane country would battle.

Edited by redmonk on 06/27/2013 15:16:21 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/28/2013 09:31:36 MDT Print View

"Gun fanatics are generally right wing supporters of using tax money to build a military that no country on earth can match, and thus they can never defeat.

Hilarious. Delusional too."

Yeah...so delusional that it ended the cold war.
Ronald Reagan famously said, “We maintain the peace through our strength; weakness only invites aggression.” He was so right. People thought he was a hawk, but in reality, he was quite the opposite. Reagan was so concerned about a nuclear holocaust because he knew there were no winners in a war like that. Do you really think Russia would have even agreed to talk to us if we had not scared the $h!t out of them by building up our military? Anyone who has ever stood up to a schoolyard bully knows exactly what i'm talking about. The only thing they respect is someone more powerful than themselves. Thank God Reagan knew that essential truth and acted on it with courage, even when bleeding hearts like you said he was a war monger. If he had not, we might not even be here today. But instead, we live in a much safer world because his "peace through strength" philosophy worked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-p-Nuu8hYQ

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/28/2013 09:33:45 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Headline: "This crap is Chaff" on 06/28/2013 16:43:47 MDT Print View

So move it over there.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/28/2013 23:17:19 MDT Print View

Ken said:
"This crap is chaff, So move it over there."

Figures..anytime someone has a differing opinion, it is ridiculed by all the Liberals on here. Below is an actual message I received today about this thread...it is one of FIVE I got from different members voicing their support and thanks for someone having the courage to stand up and tell the truth for a change:

"Matthew, I am no longer a member of BPL, but just read your post on Ronald Reagan, and you are my new 'posting hero'! I used to get into it with a few folks on this site, but found myself outnumbered considerably. It's good to hear a sane voice in this bunch!"

Oh, by the way..this site you all love so much? It was started by someone who exercises their second amendment rights. If you feel that strongly about the issue, why are you people still posting here and giving your money to it/him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6Q7m-HFj4

ryan

PS--Knowing Ryan is a responsible gun owner makes me want to support the site even more! Keep it up, Ryan! I just renewed and will recommend this site to all my second amendment hiker friends!

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/28/2013 23:49:42 MDT.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: "chaff" on 06/29/2013 00:18:17 MDT Print View

Saying this thread is chaff is not ridiculing your opinion, it's just saying the whole thread belongs in a different forum. What's being discussed has nothing to do with the stated purpose of this particular heading ("On The Web - personal websites or other Web resources that will be informative to lightweight backpackers"), ergo it is CHAFF.

But I suppose a certain amount of paranoia is not surprising from someone who is convinced that the current administration, or even the previous one, is equivalent to Hitler, Stalin, and the rest of the guys whose pictures you posted, (really? have you ever even KNOWN someone who lived in a country run by one of those guys? you REALLY think your situation in the U.S. is equivalent? oh, please) and is coming to take all our guns away. And yes, I probably just ridiculed your opinions, but you've been essentially ridiculing plenty of other people's opinions that coincide with mine, so I figure we're even.

And that's what we do in Chaff when someone takes a position...either side with them or against them. I don't see it happening more by one side than the other, though sometimes there are more people on one side of an issue than the other. But being only human, I think we all tend to see the other side as ridiculing us and our valid opinions, whereas we are just stating the truth on our side and correcting the other side's misconceptions. That tendency is probably no different between liberals and conservatives.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 01:41:04 MDT Print View

"But I suppose a certain amount of paranoia is not surprising from someone who is convinced that the current administration, or even the previous one, is equivalent to Hitler, Stalin, and the rest of the guys whose pictures you posted,"

Wrong thread there DK. That was over in the actual Chaff section. Let's keep it straight here, or do you intend to make your argument by researching all my previous posts and picking and choosing sentences that fit YOUR narrative, rather than what people are ACTUALLY saying IN THE CORRECT CONTEXT? LOL

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/29/2013 01:43:39 MDT.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 06:29:35 MDT Print View

Not all gun owners are paranoid, but a lot of the paranoid are gun owners.

If you want to be amused, or horrified, take a gander at OkCupid* sometime and see how many people would rather lose the right to vote than their precious firearms. It doesn't even make sense according to their own mantra. "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns!" So? "Outlaws" have guns now. If guns are important to you you're going to find a way to have some, illegal or no. "When voting is outlawed, only outlaws will vote!" Er, no. Something doesn't work there.






*OKCupid is ostensibly a personals site that matches people based on hundreds of ridiculous questions, but more accurately it is a repository for people's unsavory opinions on all sorts of things.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 08:04:07 MDT Print View

Well, yeah, I am guilty of bringing in material from another thread, but it seemed pertinent. I was trying to address your previous post in this thread where it sounded like you felt personally persecuted, but then I just couldn't seem to stop myself. That's what happens when I stay up too late, I guess.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: America's morons on 06/29/2013 08:17:59 MDT Print View

Well Matthew you are aware that two threads are going on about this crap right now as you are posting to both. This has always been a Chaff worthy thread. It has nothing to do with how I feel and what I think.

No I did not read your posts. I always try to skip them as you never add anything of value. You ranting ............

Edited by kthompson on 06/29/2013 08:18:49 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 08:54:57 MDT Print View

"Do you really think Russia would have even agreed to talk to us if we had not scared the $h!t out of them by building up our military?"

Well, yes, I do. IMO, Gorbachev deserves a lot of credit for the end of the cold war as well. While I'm not a fan of Reagan, he was the right leader at the right time in our history to end the cold war and scale back our lose-lose aggressive trajectory with Russia. But I don't believe he could have done it without Gorbachev, who was also the right leader at the right time in Soviet history to end the cold war.

For the first time, Gorbachev and Reagan put aside their political and philosophical differences for their countries - they both realized the trajectory their countries were on were not sustainable. So they engaged each other directly, with respect (Reagan pretty much gave up the 'evil empire' talk when he began engaging Gorbachev directly), to lead their countries down a different path.

But had another hardliner, instead of the reformer Gorbachev (followed by Yeltsin), been in power in the Soviet Union at that time, the cold war could very well still be going on - or worse.

IMO, Reagan's greatest triumph was not due to his military buildup - that may have set the stage - it was due to his diplomacy. And he shares the credit of the ending of the cold war with Gorbachev - he didn't do it alone.

We live in a safer world because two men realized we simply had to - though for different reasons (for Gorbachev it had little to do with being scared and much more to do with a realization that his country would never advance economically if it continued to spend so much on their military) - and then made it happen.

Edited by idester on 06/29/2013 08:57:51 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 09:12:12 MDT Print View

"Figures..anytime someone has a differing opinion, it is ridiculed by all the Liberals on here."

Unfortunately, Matthew, this happens on multiple sides. It's unfortunate, IMO, that so many folks have to resort to labels and name-calling - respectful discussion never goes on for long (if it even starts that way) in these threads on this and a few other topics. I don't know why people bother starting these threads, I have yet to see one end without it devolving into anger, name calling and nastiness. It's a shame, really.

FWIW, not everyone who believes in reasonable gun legislation is a liberal. Not everyone who believes in god or that America is a great country is a conservative. If we'd stop putting each other in boxes - all of us - we'd have more useful discussions, IMO. And my remarks aren't aimed specifically at you, though I'm responding to your post, they're aimed at most BPL forum posters, including myself.

Edited by idester on 06/29/2013 09:29:44 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 10:59:00 MDT Print View

I must be a genius. Was able to predict the outcome of this thread after reading the very first post.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/29/2013 11:21:23 MDT Print View

I'll bet that leaves you chaffing at the bit for the next prediction opportunity...

John Taylor
(jtaylor) - F

Locale: Shenandoah
Well no, not really on 06/30/2013 18:48:26 MDT Print View

Russia had no choice but to end the Cold War. The USSR was broke, their people wer starving.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Cold War. on 06/30/2013 21:12:57 MDT Print View

"Russia had no choice but to end the Cold War. The USSR was broke, their people wer starving."

Exactly...because all of the USSR's money went into the arms race with the US. They could not possibly compete with the US private sector driving our economy.

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 21:14:37 MDT.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
move to Chaff on 06/30/2013 21:43:06 MDT Print View

Moderator, move this to Chaff.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/30/2013 21:51:59 MDT Print View

> Could this please be moved to chaff?
Doesn't seem possible at the moment. Don't know why.
(Yes, I know it used to be possible.)

Cheers

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 06/30/2013 22:20:45 MDT Print View

Moderator, move this to Chaff.

+ 1 even though it is impossible. There you go Matthew, you can put me on your list of BPL liberals that you don't like.

I listened to a long interview with Dan Baum, author of Gun Guys, recently and he made a lot of sense most of the time.
http://danbaum.com/Nine_Lives/About_Gun_Guys.html

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
put me on your list on 06/30/2013 23:52:51 MDT Print View

"There you go Matthew, you can put me on your list of BPL liberals that you don't like. "

Unlike our President, I don't keep an "enemies" list. You have every right to your opinions, as do I. And I also try not to judge people solely on their political leanings. I never said I don't like anyone on BPL. Ever.

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 23:54:13 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Headline: "Why does America lose its head over 'terror' but ignore its daily gun deaths? on 07/01/2013 00:47:26 MDT Print View

Unlike our President, I don't keep an "enemies" list.

Try and make a post without bringing politics into it.

You have every right to your opinions, as do I.

I never said you didn't. Ever. How do you know that our opinions on this topic aren't identical? Perhaps you are judging me solely on my political leanings? The same way that you categorised those who had a different opinion from you on gun control as liberals.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker)

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: put me on your list on 07/01/2013 00:51:11 MDT Print View

You are wearing a kilt, your argument is invalid.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
KILT on 07/01/2013 10:35:56 MDT Print View

"You are wearing a kilt, your argument is invalid"

Justin....""are you DAFT, Sissy-Girl?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJVFJ2kb62c

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 07/01/2013 10:38:35 MDT.