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The Truth About Exercise M. Mosley
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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
The Truth About Exercise M. Mosley on 04/15/2013 15:15:44 MDT Print View

Anyone see that on PBS

http://watch.opb.org/video/2364989581/

He says that you get all the benefits from exercise if you do 20 seconds as fast as you can, rest a little, do it two more times. Do this 3 times per week.

Another thing was, that genetically, some people have little beneficial effect from exercise and other people have a lot of effect.

Anyone else see this?

Randy Martin
(randalmartin) - F

Locale: Colorado
What is your objective? on 04/15/2013 15:50:53 MDT Print View

Don't have time to watch an hour but clearly you can't perform strength training for 3 reps of 20 secs each and expect to see improvement. My guess is he is talking about some of the benefits of something like sprints.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: What is your objective? on 04/15/2013 16:06:33 MDT Print View

he was talking about cardiovascular and insulin resistance

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: What is your objective? on 04/15/2013 16:10:01 MDT Print View

You could get 20 seconds of time under tension, however, which if done with some compensatory acceleration and a controlled negative (but not slow), would net you about 8 repetitions. 3 sets of that would improve your strength.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: What is your objective? on 04/15/2013 17:31:57 MDT Print View

It was like 20 seconds of sprinting as hard as possible on stationery bike, then rest maybe a minute, 20 seconds sprint, 1 minute rest, 20 seconds sprint

The objective is cardiovascular and insulin resistance.

In 20 seconds of as hard as possible sprint, the muscles use all their glycogen so they release hormones to replace their glycogen.

This does more good than 30 minutes of moderate exercise which is the standard recommendation

Maybe people can devote a couple minutes to this, three times a week, if they don't have time to do more.

This was all based on scientific researchers. Curious if this makes sense to anyone else.

jeffrey armbruster
(book) - M

Locale: Northern California
"The Truth About Exercise M. Mosley" on 04/15/2013 19:43:16 MDT Print View

"The First Twenty Minutes" by Gretchen Reynolds looks into this sort of thing as well. short bursts of intense aerobic exercise followed by brief rest, repeat. Twenty minutes of this is better than an hour of lower level cardio, according to her sources.

I found the book almost persuasive. New information on exercise and diet keeps coming out and contradicting last year's information. Hard to tell what's what.

I just want to keep showing up at the gym or pool and doing my workout.

Nick Larsen
(stingray4540) - F

Locale: South Bay
Tabata training on 04/16/2013 01:58:08 MDT Print View

It's called Tabata training. Developed by Izumi Tabata after a study he did in Japan. If it interests you, google tabata and you will find a lot more reading on it.
I think it is mostly cardio training. If you want Popeye arms, you still gotta put the time in with weights.

Dave Grey
(dapperdave) - F
If you do research on untrained subjects, pretty much anything works... on 04/16/2013 02:49:18 MDT Print View

Check out this article by Steve Magness, Cross country coach at the University of Houston, former Assistant Coach for the Nike Oregon project, Masters of Exercise Science.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/01/crossfit-endurance-tabata-sprints-and.html

This has been a bit of a UK fad since the program aired here last year, TV journalist Andrew Marr suffered a stroke while doing HIT on a rowing machine.

I read a newspaper article, supposedly promoting HIT, where the, previously untrained, journalist was tested, did 6 wks of HIT, was retested, had 8 wks with no training, then did 6 wks of steady state aerobic training and was retested. He improved after the HIT, but he improved 25% more after the steady state training!

People used to train this way in the 1940s, we've learnt a bit since then, and guess what, things just aren't that simple.

HIT may improve your VO2max, but there would be little improvement in low end endurance performance ie. backpacking.

Dave

Edited by dapperdave on 04/16/2013 02:51:59 MDT.

Bradley Danyluk
(dasbin) - MLife
HIIT training on 04/16/2013 20:18:36 MDT Print View

I watched the BBC programme and strictly followed the routine for about 6 months. I don't doubt the science, but I didn't notice the usual increase in available endurance you get from regular lower-intensity longer exercise.

The real downside, rarely talked about, is just how brutally unpleasant it is. You have to recalibrate your idea of what a "10/10" on the effort scale is and hit it constantly every time. You are sprinting as if your life depends on it. By the time you get to your third 30s interval, it feels like it lasts a lifetime. If it isn't unbelievably brutal, then you're not doing it right. Your brain will do everything in its power to lower your output by even 1%, and it is a massive *mental* battle to constantly overcome that while you are doing it. Not only that, but there isn't any sort of hormonal or experiential reward.
Once I realized this never gets any better, I stopped and much prefer lower-intensity bike rides and hikes as exercise, despite the time increase.

Edited by dasbin on 04/16/2013 20:22:59 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Tabata training on 04/16/2013 20:30:41 MDT Print View

"I think it is mostly cardio training. If you want Popeye arms, you still gotta put the time in with weights."

It's cardio training for high intensity sports like soccer and basketball, IMO. You're not going to run a marathon off that kind of training, or hike 25 mile days.

Specificity of training.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/16/2013 21:04:13 MDT Print View

"It's cardio training for high intensity sports like soccer and basketball, IMO. You're not going to run a marathon off that kind of training, or hike 25 mile days.

Specificity of training."

Ah, the American pursuit of shortcuts :)

If you want to run far, you have to train by running far. If you want to hike far, you have to train by hiking far. If you want to run fast, you have to train running fast. If you want to run far and fast you have to train doing both. If you want to hike fast and far, you have to train doing both.

If you only have a few minutes per day to exercise, you need to re-evaluate your life.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/16/2013 21:09:01 MDT Print View

Nick!!!!!!
About the best advice I've read in a long time.

Bradley Danyluk
(dasbin) - MLife
Miscommunication. on 04/16/2013 21:12:30 MDT Print View

You guys are taking this the wrong way, without watching the programme.
The entire point of it is health benefit. Has nothing to do with increasing athletic performance.
They noted similar heart-health and blood-sugar/insulin level improvements to much longer moderate exercise. No other claims were made.

Edited by dasbin on 04/16/2013 21:14:02 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/16/2013 21:36:29 MDT Print View

Nick - you're one of those old people unable to consider any new ideas

This is more aimed at optimizing Olympic athletes, not American's pursuing short cuts

And it's a BBC program (or programme - those brits need to learn how to spell) and Tabata is Japanese

I think more than a protocol to exercise, what's interesting is understanding the physiology

Then, we Americans can make a pill which would be a shortcut

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/17/2013 20:51:34 MDT Print View

"If you want to run far, you have to train by running far. If you want to hike far, you have to train by hiking far. If you want to run fast, you have to train running fast. If you want to run far and fast you have to train doing both. If you want to hike fast and far, you have to train doing both."

+1 bigtime.

"If you only have a few minutes per day to exercise, you need to re-evaluate your life."

Hilarious. And oh so true!

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Tabata training on 04/18/2013 09:37:35 MDT Print View

Another interesting idea in that video - more applicable to BPL maybe.

People have a hard time losing weight. And exercise isn't that effective. Maybe there are some ideas from the video that would help.

In the video, they said you have to exercise vigorously for 20 seconds for the muscles to use up their glycogen stores. Then they release hormones to replenish those stores.

Maybe releasing those hormones would help lose weight. So, if you didn't exercise vigorously enough, it will have little effect.

Or, if they had a pill with those hormones, maybe it would help you lose weight (yeah, American shortcut...)

Or, if someone was genetically pre-disposed to not responding to exercise like they talked about in the video, then maybe exercise won't produce weight loss. Someone could get this test, and if they were unresponsive, then no reason to do a lot of exercising trying to lose weight

Or, if genetically pre-disposed, maybe there's a pill to make you responsive

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/18/2013 09:56:50 MDT Print View

"People have a hard time losing weight. And exercise isn't that effective. Maybe there are some ideas from the video that would help."

Jerry, I will disagree that exercise isn't that effective.

It is about what kind of exercise and how much time we spend exercising. Losing weight is mostly about how many calories you intake and expend each day. Seems most people want to exercise a few minutes each day and continue with their normal diet. There are two kinds of exercise; aerobic and anaerobic. Each has a different affect on our bodies. Serious athletes train using both during different training cycles.

Before people start exercising, they need to know what their goal is. Lets assume someone wants to get into backpacking shape for a long hike that will include a lot of elevation gain. The first step would be to work on endurance, or "base training." This would be a lot of long hikes at a slower pace, little elevation gain. Once they are in good shape, they need to prepare for the hard elevation gains, let's call that power or interval training. This would be shorter hikes but mostly uphill. The first is aerobic, the second (high intensity for short periods)is anaerobic. Lets take the two first finishers in the 2012 Olympic 10K, Mo Farah and Galen Rupp who trained together. During the base phase they were running over 100 miles per week. As they got closer the race, their mileage dropped and they started doing more interval training (anaerobic). This prepared them to have both endurance and speed. Rather simplified explanation. I am open to new ideas, but out physiology hasn't changed in the past few thousand years :)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Tabata training on 04/18/2013 10:10:47 MDT Print View

Good points, Nick

I forgot to put a emoticon when I called you an old person incapable of new ideas. But the best humour has a grain of truth to it.

Exercise is not effective in that most overweight people try to lose weight, including exercising, but are unsuccessful

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
HIIT on 04/18/2013 10:12:15 MDT Print View

"The real downside, rarely talked about, is just how brutally unpleasant it is."

+1 to that.

Also on the Guardian.co.uk news site is the story of the BBC presenter Andrew Marr, who was doing something similar on a rowing machine, ie flat out intervals, and gave himself a stroke straight afterwards :

Andrew Marr, the 53-year-old BBC TV presenter and journalist, made a guest appearance on his own show yesterday, just four months after a life-threatening stroke, which he attributed to "heavily overworking" and an intensive session on a rowing machine.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Intensity on 04/18/2013 10:45:06 MDT Print View

One of the biggest drawbacks to this sort of exercise is that people who do not have an existing base of fitness are going to be very injury prone. Running slow is very different on your joints than all-out sprinting.
It happens all the time to casual runners trying to get faster. They run easy and slow for a while and then get it in their heads that to get faster they should hit the track and run a bunch of 200M intervals as fast as they can...and bam, there goes a knee or a hamstring...
I hear it's another issue that has been brought on by the "crossfit" movement. With proper coaching, supervision, and form, high intensity is probably fine for most fit people. But when Joe Schmoe gets it in his head that to get "results" he needs to go much harder and faster and heads out to the garage and do power cleans, deadlifts, and box jumps until exhaustion...

But I suppose it's like anything...there will always be "that guy"...