Canister failure: has this happened to you?
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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 10:50:01 MDT Print View

New Reactor is 172 g = 6 ounces

My Ti pot plus windscreen is about the same

I wonder what the improved fuel usage saves

That's sort of like Jetboils - original ones were ridiculously heavy but the Sol Ti weighs about the same as conventional

On the Reactor, I wonder if the fins on the bottom do very much. And the exhaust gas that goes up the sides loses heat to the metal outside. Is that heat conducted back to the pot or is just radiated out?

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Reactor vs. Jetboil vs. "Regular" Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 11:33:54 MDT Print View

All told, a aluminum Jetboil Sol weighs 312g/11oz* on my scale. A Reactor 390g/14.7oz. The Reactor is a quarter pound heavier. Ouch. The JB is pretty efficient although the JB does not have a pot skirt like the Reactor.

The real advantage of the Reactor is windproofness. The JB can be blown out in high winds whereas the Reactor hardly takes notice. Even in lower winds where things aren't as obvious and dramatic, the JB can lose a lot of efficiency and go through a lot of fuel whereas the Reactor is remarkably consistent.

The Reactor is the leader in extreme conditions; the Jetboil in mild. Both are fast.

It would be nice to sit down and do some serious efficiency testing between a 1.0L Reactor and an aluminum Jetboil Sol.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving


*That's on an aluminum Jetboil from a year or so ago. It looks like Jetboil has done some things to make the current aluminum version heavier, perhaps in an effort to make the Ti version appear lighter.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 13:42:51 MDT Print View

An old anecdote. I was co-leading a group backpack trip once, and I brought along my hot MSR white gas stove to do half of the cooking. My co-leader brought along his Svea 123, although he was not very experienced with it. When it came time to do some cooking, he dripped a few drops of fuel over the burner for priming. He lit it, it flickered for a few seconds, and then it went out. So, he dribbled more fuel over it, pumped the little mini-pump, and lit it again. Again, the fire danced around for a short period and then went out without getting any real pressurization going in the tank. For the third go, he dribbled several spoons of fuel over it, furiously pumped the mini-pump, and lit it. This time it caught. The priming fire was more of a blaze, and the pressure built up rapidly. The burner was going great guns, and then it happened. The pressure safety relief valve opened in the filler cap. All of a sudden, a diagonal fire jet was shooting out of the filler cap, and the thing looked like it was about ready for a shuttle launch. My co-leader didn't know what to do. He had no fire blanket to throw over it, and he had no water standing by. It seemed ready to explode. I just kicked it over in the sand with my boot, and then kicked more sand over it, so it was out in an instant. Needless to say, the safety valve was melted and permanently failed, so that Svea was retired to the junk heap.

The stovies on this forum have probably seen this before with inexperienced Svea users.

--B.G.--

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/09/2013 15:02:51 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 19:28:02 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: On canister stoves, the poerty of Max, inspiration vs. intuition on 04/09/2013 15:06:45 MDT Print View

Daniel, what a great post!
Thanks.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: On canister stoves, the poerty of Max, inspiration vs. intuition on 04/09/2013 15:12:36 MDT Print View

Is there a Coles Notes version?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: On canister stoves, the poerty of Max, inspiration vs. intuition on 04/09/2013 15:15:47 MDT Print View

"Honestly, the things used to really freak me out. They just get so hot. I know I'm going to burn myself one day using one. It's just a matter of time."

You aren't a real stovie until you've singed the hair off the back of your hand a few times.

Beside, if you are going to run with the big dogs, you have to learn to lift your leg very high.

--B.G.--

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: On canister stoves, the poerty of Max, inspiration vs. intuition on 04/09/2013 15:19:40 MDT Print View

"Is there a Coles Notes version?"

Dr. Schultz... I'll do the trolling around here thank you very much.

Behold the OG of Schultz

.schultz

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Thanks Daniel on 04/09/2013 16:16:30 MDT Print View

Daniel,

Thanks for the kind words. I doubt I live up to half of them, but the ethereal "Max" that all young forum users might embody that you spoke of is a valuable part of the community. There are people in their 50's and 60's doing the exact same thing, too.

I think I have lessons to learn on approaching discussions. I quickly learned not to dismiss things I considered "off-topic" even if I was specific in my OP, because that kind of request is unreasonable and there's value to tangents. There was an individual talking knives VS. scissors last week who fell into the same trap. I am trying not to hold on to bad habits.

I also get trapped in loops sometimes. I say something, someone counters, and then it's a race for the last word. I also want to try to let go of a counterpoint rather than pursue being "right" at the expense of credibility and actual progress.

Lessons, lessons. The Internet is kind of like being thrown into elementary school and then working your way back to civilized socialization. That detachment that comes with a complete lack of tone of voice, facial expression, and volume is hard to consider sometimes, but we all manage.

Thanks to everyone that convinced me this wasn't a lost cause. Thanks also to the people who recognized my frustration and responded positively, especially Douglacide and Ian Bloom. I'll try to get outside more often so I have more questions to ask.

This weekend is Acadia National Park in Maine. I'll post a trip report, although it's a much more casual experience than our Camel's Hump and Moosilauke trips earlier this year. Still, I might try to find a way to make it interesting.

45º sleeping bag in 32º weather? Sounds like my kind of party....

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 16:19:50 MDT Print View

Hi Bob

> The pressure safety relief valve opened in the filler cap. All of a sudden, a
> diagonal fire jet was shooting out of the filler cap,

Not just Svea 123s. Optimus 8R can do that too. Extended pancake cooking session INside a tent. Fortunately the tent door was open, and fortunately it was pouring rain outside. The stove sort of levitated out the door ... No damage though, and the stove was fine for the rest of the several weeks of the trip. Maybe we got it extinguished and cooled fast enough.

Cheers
Roger Caffin (PhD) (for Daniel)

Edited by rcaffin on 04/09/2013 16:20:35 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 16:51:44 MDT Print View

"No damage though"

That is surprising. Once the safety relief valve opens, most of them are permanently ruined (by intention).

Maybe you have a force field installed on yours.

That's one of the good things about a typical MSR white gas stove, that there is no ruining feature to upset things. About the only two killers are (A) if the fuel line gets clogged, (B) if the pump gasket "leather" dries out.

I saw a guy whose MSR stove (not the fuel tank) had been run over by a car tire. He bent it back into shape with a Leatherman tool, and then he started on a one-week backpack trip with it.

--B.G.--

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 17:22:35 MDT Print View

Bob,

Normally it's just the cap that is ruined if the SRV blows. The rest of the stove is normally fine. This is true for that class of thermal feed back stoves:
Optimus 8/8R
Primus 71
Optimus 80
Optimus 99
Svea 123/123R
Optimus Eagle 1000
... and any other stove with that type of cap. The above are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. Replace the cap, and your stove should be fine. At least that's the design intent.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 17:56:44 MDT Print View

I understand the design intent. The problem used to be that nobody would ever carry a spare fuel cap with their stove. Therefore, when the fuel cap relief blows, the stove is junk for the rest of that trip.

Once I saw the other guy's stove fail that way, I went out and bought a spare fuel cap for an old Optimus that I had. But that was just one more loose part to get lost in some campsite.

--B.G.--

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
Re: Reactor vs. Jetboil vs. "Regular" Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 18:11:30 MDT Print View

Have you had trouble the JetBoil Sol AL blowing out? I've used it unsheltered in some pretty stiff wind deliberately and it seemed uneffected for boiling water. I would imagine it could be blown out easily if you were trying to simmer. I'm just wondering if there is an issue with the JB.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Reactor vs. Jetboil vs. "Regular" Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 18:22:57 MDT Print View

I'm just wondering if there is an issue with the JB.
An "issue?" No, not per se, but it's not as windproof as a Reactor. It usually shows up as increased fuel consumption rather than the stove blowing out.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 18:47:49 MDT Print View

> > "No damage though"
> That is surprising. Once the safety relief valve opens, most of them are permanently
> ruined (by intention).

Very old stove - 1960s model.
I think the release was by spring pressure. When it cooled down the spring sealed the valve again. The flame was not at the cap - it started several inches away!
I don't trust white gas any more...

Cheers

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Svea 123 vs. Canister Stoves on 04/09/2013 20:59:08 MDT Print View

"I don't trust white gas any more..."

That sounds like a training problem.

--B.G.--

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Thanks Daniel on 04/09/2013 21:03:53 MDT Print View

Daniel & Max, THOSE were good posts.

Not to keep rehashing this on a stove thread, but I thought Max's last post was a great show of character.



Oh, and also thanks to the posters on their stove issues and knowledge. I learned something.

Edited by T.L. on 04/09/2013 21:08:34 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/09/2013 21:37:30 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 19:29:38 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Abridged: On Caniters, the Poetry Of Max, And Inspiration vs. Intuition on 04/09/2013 22:11:47 MDT Print View

Perhaps we underestimate the ability of "older" folks to innovate.

I've worked closely with thousands of 18-year-olds in my career. Not a lot of innovation on the whole. A whole lot of follow the leader though.

"Despite stereotypes of entrepreneurs as fresh-faced youngsters, new research has found that older workers are more likely to innovate than their under-35 counterparts."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/08/20/innovation-grows-among-older-workers.html