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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Let's just stop right there. on 04/05/2013 08:53:48 MDT Print View

"Seriously people, get over yourselves. No one is out to get you."

There are people that like to beat up gay people just for fun, so I can understand Max's comments. They "are out to get them".

And since straight people have AIDS too, the standard medical practice is to treat everyone like they have AIDS and avoid contact with body fluids, so it's irrelevant to bring gayness up. But I don't think anyone had any bad intentions.

I don't think using the "F" word or the "N" or other offensive words is a good thing, no reason to offend people. But maybe turning those words into common words will dillute the offensiveness.

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Let's just stop right there. on 04/05/2013 09:12:44 MDT Print View

>>standard medical practice is to treat everyone like they have AIDS and avoid contact with body fluids

Yes, I thought that was the protocol, which makes the speculation on Manscaped Rafter Guy's love life moot. Honestly not sure why David framed the story that way at all.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: Adventure Medical Kits on 04/05/2013 09:34:01 MDT Print View

Yeah at a certain point, certain posts need to be continued in Chaff, but it's a legit point.

If someone requires first aid on the trail with trauma requiring assistance, their blood and other fluids are assumed to have some sort of cooties nowadays (required first responder training here). You don't know the medical status of anybody except probably your SO (and kids) nowadays with all the freaky diseases out there. Also consider the responder should use the victims first aid kit if the latter is getting evaced while the responder continues to hike.

So back to the OP, ... depending on the length of time, there may need to be more supplies in an easily accessible and visible container. Those ready-bought kits have now have lower weight materials which happen to be brightly colored but having bandages, etc.. in a zip-lock on top of a sparsely loaded pack could work as well. With more gear, probably need to go with the brightly colored nylon zip. My older heavier kits go car camping (including camping site BBQing) trips where my Benedryl, Neosporin, etc... tends to be used up before their expiration date.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Not sure either on 04/05/2013 09:54:12 MDT Print View

I wasn't sure of the relevance of HIV/AIDS infection either but I only deal with infected people for short periods of time (<2 hrs) and don't fully understand the challenges associated with their long term care. I figured that if an MD was concerned then that's good enough for me. Treatment has come a long way so if David's story was 20, 10, or 2 years ago makes a huge difference.

I carpool with a gent who is infected with Hep C. Treatment included chemotherapy. He's not exactly sure how he contracted it but with his level of security clearance, I'm willing to rule out IV drug use.

To look at this guy, you'd never guess that he would be a candidate for a blood borne pathogen.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 04/05/2013 10:02:25 MDT.

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Seriously??? on 04/05/2013 09:57:56 MDT Print View

Max, Nancy and all the other sensitive flowers,

SERIOUSLY????

Dave does't hate anyone from the LGBTQZEW community. He is very liberal and that's just not in their DNA. If anything, you guys owe him a big thankyou. Hell he started a PFLAG Chapter for you guys. Hes not gay, so he certainly didn't do it for himself. (I didn't know what a PFLAG was, but it sounded gay so Googled it). All that said, you guys are attacking the wrong guy here. He is right. Everyone else on the trip returned their medical forms but the gay guy didn't. Dave would be an idiot to not ask WHY or be concerned? Whats this guy hiding? Stop being so sensitive. Dave called a gay guy gay. You guys need to build a bridge and get over it or troll on a forum that doesn't deal with reality.

Loki Cuthbert
(lokbot) - F

Locale: Portland, OR
@ Daniel Pittman on 04/05/2013 11:01:03 MDT Print View

@ Daniel Pittman "We're only five miles from the cars, and the ranger station is right over that hill. There's no first-aid when a mountain lion rips your head off. And besides, I just assume all you faggots have AIDS anyway." We're still friends.

My favorite line in this thread.

I assume all of the faggots I have sex with have HIV/AIDS that's why I use protection.

As a BI/QUEER identifying member of the community I absolve all of the well meaning/harmless comments that Nancy and Max took offense to. There is nothing wrong with assessing risks of medical conditions or disease.


-Loki

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Well, at least we're talking. on 04/05/2013 14:03:25 MDT Print View

I didn't expect everyone to agree with me; still, I had good intentions.

I'd just rather hedge my bets and keep things from getting into dangerous territory where we're profiling HIV based on homosexuality. If I have to be the bad guy for being idealistic, whatever- I haven't got anything to lose. I said it before; HIV is not visual like obesity or bodybuilding, so the only thing you're making the assumption off of is social contract. Not the same as profiling medically.

At the end of the day, a medical professional treats everyone like they have communicable disease- it's been said. That's the only fair way. There's no need to bring the individual's sexuality into the conversation unless it's to extend a stereotype. Just because everyone believes the stereotype does NOT make it ok. But like I said before, I'm on David's side here, I never meant to imply he had some kind of agenda. Anyone who thinks that's where I'm going with this should re-read my posts.


My perspective on homosexuality is at my college. Relatively innocent 18-22 year old college guys grab free condoms every time they pass the resident desk, just like the straight couples. It's probably not a good lens for observing higher rates of STD's like the statistics indicate, but it's a great environment to approach all variations of sexuality as equal, especially in regards to STD's, and that's where I'm coming from. If your experience invalidates that, then so be it.


No regrets, glad I said something, thanks for having a conversation about something important. :)

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: BS! All of it on 04/05/2013 16:24:03 MDT Print View

Moderator

Move to Chaff

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: BS! All of it on 04/05/2013 16:31:41 MDT Print View

This thread definitely went to hell in a handcart.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Gays? on 04/05/2013 16:40:06 MDT Print View

I read the whole thread and am still not certain where the hate crime was?

Some of you need to add chill pills to your back country first aid kit.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Gays? on 04/05/2013 16:41:47 MDT Print View

See?!? Back on topic just like that! Yesss!

Re: puffy pants. OR neoplume

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Light on 04/05/2013 17:08:23 MDT Print View

Good thread, I think. Someone feeling offended, speaking out; someone else explaining where they are coming from. We need more of this and the hopefully we will get to where we are aware and can still express ourselves without causing havoc.
Someone like David, who is clearly aware and open minded should be heard with an equally open mind.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Seriously??? on 04/05/2013 17:25:20 MDT Print View

"Dave would be an idiot to not ask WHY or be concerned? Whats this guy hiding? Stop being so sensitive. Dave called a gay guy gay. You guys need to build a bridge and get over it or troll on a forum that doesn't deal with reality."

Thanks for saying what badly needed to be said, and very well at that, Lawson.

+100!!!

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
RE: Adventure Medical Kits on 04/05/2013 17:35:27 MDT Print View

I carry the .3 version most of the time for solo, and even with Dave for short duration trips. (No we are related...) I did add a couple extra things but find they make a nice base first aid kit. (No, aid, not AIDS...)

Max, Max, Max...

Loki Cuthbert
(lokbot) - F

Locale: Portland, OR
stereotypes on 04/06/2013 01:39:40 MDT Print View

Max I think that you have a pretty good understanding on stereotypes. I appreciate your view point and think it's great to point out that gays shouldn't be stereotyped as having STDs hiv/aids. While there are statistics that show that we have higher rates of HIV we also have strong community outreach to provide testing, condoms, and information.

I don't think there is anything to gain by the average straight person to view a gay man as being higher risk with HIV or aids. If you aren't having sex with us you don't have anything to worry about. That being said a doctor or someone in charge of preparing for the worst case scenario in a first aid situation has everything to gain by assessing possible risks and being the most prepared for a situation.

All David did was give a very thorough explanation of his first aid kit and explain how to prepare for certain scenarios

He mentioned that he brought much more equipment to be prepared for the worst because he was rafting and the raft will float no matter how much you bring a long.

I commend David for doing the thorough research to be able to best help the people on the trip and to go out of his way to be prepared for the worst case situation to for someone who was not willing to disclose his medical background.


-loki

Jim Milstein
(JimSubzero) - M

Locale: New Uraniborg CO
Words! on 04/09/2013 21:32:35 MDT Print View

Several years ago I was scolded by my son for using the word niggardly. So far as I know it has only one sense, and that sense has nothing to do with any ethnic or racial or religious or political or whatever group. Maybe he just needed to scold me; maybe I just needed scolding. But ever since I have been niggardly in using that word. Otherwise, I'm liberal in my vocabulary.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Words! on 04/09/2013 21:37:11 MDT Print View

"Several years ago I was scolded by my son for using the word niggardly."

A Washington DC mayor's aide was forced to quit for using the word during Mayor Williams' tenure. He was later rehired.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/10/2013 09:08:45 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/10/2013 09:36:07 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
The never ending thread on 04/10/2013 09:28:46 MDT Print View

Hey Daniel,

There are other things to consider beyond coming into contact with infected body fluids. I deal with "customers" on a regular basis who are infected and I’m somewhat responsible for their continuity of care (albeit I'm not a health care provider any more.) Many people (certainly not all) who are infected today will live long and fulfilling lives thanks to the breakthroughs in treatment. That has not always been the case.

It makes a huge difference if this story happened in 1985, 1995, or 2005. Depending on when this happened and what treatment he may or may not have been receiving, (if he was infected at all) catching a cold in the wilderness could have had some serious consequences. Without her knowing what his situation was, she may have opted to bring medication to be prepared for that contingency.

I'm not an MD and I can't speak for David's wife but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Marc Loomis
(th12t33n)
So.. on 04/10/2013 10:01:49 MDT Print View

So um...Adventure medical kits.....

I bought the .7 for myself
An the .5 for my son.

In both kits i plan to add.

-Immodium ad
-Advil
-Tylenol
-quikclot.

Also in Mine alone
-Vicodin
-Tums(very bad indigestion here)

Anything else anyone recommends or I'm forgetting? we will do some 7+ers this year mostly weekends.