I've been thinking about the absolute best way to get ultralight food and think powdered meal replacements would be the best fit for up to 10 days. Has anyone tried eating these protein type shakes for a week, 3x a day? Any suggestions for best tasting/full vitamins/etc? I figure I can even leave behind the Jetboil and just take my steripen for water.

Take a look at what ultramarathon runners use. I found Perpetuem by Hammer and love it for my insane hikes. Fills me up, great energy over a very long day, sits well when I past my limit. Great product.

I supplement with some other foods such as almonds, gummy candies, bars, but Perpetuem has been my main food on several extended stoveless adventures.

Cheers,
Doug

Doug,
Do you like the unflavored or "orange creamsicle" variety of the Perpetuem? It sounds interesting to me, but somehow the flavor choices make me shudder. Thanks!

Regarding Perpetuem, what consistency do you prefer/recommend: thixotropic sludge or wholly dissolved? Have you found any differences in performance in the methods of preparation? Any idea on how long one may keep a prepared serving of Perpetuem before adverse effects, such as spoiling; e.g. can it sit out during the day or overnight without becoming a swarming ground for bacteria?

Bill Fornshell has used something, maybe ensure for hikes?

Hi Guys-

Like Doug, I've consumed a lot of Perpetuem in the last couple of years. I've got a couple of observations to add:

1) I prefer it mixed thick and then consumed with plain water.

2) Perhaps due to the protein and/or fat content, it is *far* more palatable when it is cold. The Dreamsicle flavor is downright tasty when it's cold; warm Perpetuem is, shall we say, an acquired taste.

3) I've found it difficult to get it to dissolve completely when mixing. It tends to form clumps easily.

4) For an alternative along the same liquid nutrition lines, I'd check out InfinIT Nutrition. Their stuff mixes mixes easily, and is drinkable when it's warm. Plus, you can customize your formula -- adjusting the amount of carbs, electrolytes, protein, caffeine, even flavor you want. It's my current fuel of choice for done-in-a-day activities.

Cheers,

-Mike

Yes,

When hiking I use Dry or Powder Ensure. It comes in a can that has 1750 calories and the Powder out of the can weighs 14.35 or so ounces. One serving size is 6.5 fl ounces of water and 1/2 half cup of dry mix. To this I add a small scoop of Carnation Instant Breakfast mix. The serving size of Dry Ensure is 250 calories then 32.5 calories from the Carnation mix. This gives me 282.5 calories and weighs 2.32 ounces. The small amount of Carnation mix gives you a nice Chocolate taste and a bit more nutritional value. The Carnation Breakfast mix is also very good by itself and comes in several flavors.

My total normal daily diet is liquid Ensure and I have been on this stuff for about 2 years. The dry mix lets me go hiking again and works really well.

I also use Hammer Perpetuem. I mix the Perpetuem 1/2 serving strength (260 calories per liter of water) with all the water I drink. I don't mind the taste cold or warm. I like the Dreamsicle flavor. The way I drink it in my water it never gets a chance to get old. At home if I mix any I try and drink it within a day or two. It will get a strange smell after a couple of days. Perpetuem could replace all my Dry Ensure full time but would cost a lot more. Hammer runs it on sale a few times a year and the 32 serving size is the best deal. It has a real long shelf life. I add the dry mix to the water and then let it sit awhile. Shake it and I do not have a problem with it mixing with the water. I do shake the bottle again before drinking it.

Edited by bfornshell on 05/01/2007 09:49:05 MDT.

I find that when Perpetuem is warm it only takes a few hours to go bad (nasty), about 12-16 when not hot.

I use Perpetrum for the hardcore hikes races because it is a lot easier to get your nutrition by drinking it than tiring to consume it.
I used it Primal Quest last year and used it for 80% of my calories for 9 1/2 days. I was feeling a heck of lot better at day 7 than anyone else I met. Tiring to consume all of those calories in dry form would not have been fun.

Hi Jonathan,
I talked with the Hammer folks recently and they said you should not keep Perpetuem after it has been mixed for more than 24 hrs. Like Doug, I use Perpertuem exclusively when "on the move", 3 individual serving packets for the day, which weighs 7.5 oz. and provides 780 calories. I never feel "bonked" or hungry. I do, however, eat a high calorie dinner and breakfast to provide max calories and protein without diverting blood to the stomach during the day. If it is hot or I am really exerting myself, I add electrolyte tablets to the Perpetuem, which is a bit light in this regard> Nuun tablets work well, but I would guess there are others on the market.

Aaron, when you're on an endurance event such as Primal Quest, do you prefer to sip the perpetuem at regular intervals, or to drink a larger dose every couple of hours?

Edited by chris_jackson on 05/01/2007 22:28:38 MDT.

On the Perpetuem web site one finds it has a lot of SOY PROTIENS.

Many women, my wife included, have recently stopped drinking "Silk" & other soy milks. Why? Because the soy ALSO contains estrogens. Women are leery of ingesting estrogens because they know it can promote certain types of cancers.

As for men, well guys...how much estrogen do YOU want in your diet?? Just enough that you can see the beginnings of "manboobs"?

Hey Chris,
We had a temp of 122* crossing between over some dessert. Getting enough water was easy. I just mixed what ever portion of the Perpetuim for the callories I needed. Getting through 3 litters of water before before it stated tasting bad was not a probrem.

The only problem was that you were drinking 100+* water most of the time.

Somehow, I just don't buy that! My son has drank soy since he was an infant, and is as manly of a boy as can be.
He has had dairy milk maybe twice in 9 1/2 years.
We drink Silk instead.
Everything in moderation afterall is the goal in life! A cup a day of soy milk isn't the issue, consuming a quart a day isn't good for most people due to the calories!
Having said all that, I use dry soy milk powder in backcountry meals often to boost protein and calories. Good stuff.

I like orange creamsicle. Good stuff and I can handle it when on the verge of hurling. The stuff is slighly chalky but not that bad.

might be a problem if you eat 10lbs or so of soy a day, but in the quantities anyone is likely to consume, even someone getting a lot of their protein from soy sources, no data to suggest any dangers & a lot of data to suggest benefits.

I live in Asia (Japan specifically) where literally BILLIONS of people eat and drink a lot more soy products than any westerner ever will, and for far far longer, and I can assure you that I have never seen men develop "manboobs" or women develop any unusual cancerous symptoms due to soy. I think it's quite safe to consume.

I just ordered a 32 oz bottle of Perpetuem from their website... but may possibly cancel it due to the $48.00 shipping fee! More expensive than the product itself! Wonder if I can find it here in Japan?

Edited by butuki on 05/02/2007 21:23:34 MDT.

Just a quick note to thank those (John, Michael, Bill, Aaron, Tom et al) who responded to my questions about Perpetuem and asked others I had not thought to raise. I appreciate the time you took & insight offered. The brevity of the thanks should not be taken amiss; “Beggar that I am, I am even poorer in thanks.”

Well, you've convinced me to give it a try. Sounds like just the thing for long overnight hikes and endless SAR missions. If I have any lactating man boobies develop, you all will be the first to know... :-)

The only problem with a lot of soy proteins being used now in these products is the way in which it is processed. They use hexane. It really isn't great for you and it is difficult to digest.

As for thickening up powdered meal replacement and creating a feeling of being full, I would suggest psyllium husk powder. You can get this at any health food store. This absorbs many times its weight in water and creates a mouthfeel of being solid. It can also help regulate your bowels when consuming mostly liquid based food.

www.naturalzing.com
They have raw, sprouted almonds that have been dehydrated. Those are really good.

Dehydrating your own food is a good way to reduce the overall weight. Also, taking seeds such as quinoa dry, then sprouting them in a small amount of water overnight, is a good way to get healthy bed grains in a lightweight fashion. You don't have to cook them once sprouted. If you do choose to cook the quinoa, it takes very little heat or time to cook them completely.
I like this website for some whole foods that have been dried. Not everything there fits the bill for ultralight food, but a lot of it can be nice.

I also tend to use Emergen'C packets to boost vitamin intake. It is lightweight and since it fizzes, you can just dump it into your mouth without water. This takes a little getting used to though.

Edited by oldskool on 05/03/2007 17:30:59 MDT.

Any progress on the powdered foods front? This thread is a few years old. I'm wondering how more rounded meal replacement products like Muscle Milk or BSN's Syntha-6 might fare for less crazy backcountry feats. I've seen a few recent threads showing Perpetuem and Heed as the powdered food of choice for multi-day record attempts, but nothing for more average days. I usually drink Syntha-6 as a breakfast and post-workout snack, but I've never tried it exclusively for a day or more. Seems like it might provide a more balanced nutrition profile, which might be customized by blending it with a more carbohydrate focused powder like Perpetuem. Based on my first few servings of Perpetuem powder and/or solids, it would certainly taste better!

Edited by AttaboyBrad on 06/30/2011 02:15:46 MDT.