Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
JMT Fasthike
Display Avatars Sort By:
Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 14:36:16 MDT Print View

Well, it looks like this is the JMT year for me. I'm signed up for a SOBO and a NOBO.

June 29 from Happy Isles to Florence Lake AFAP, 42 hours? Then the family joins and we head out Whitney over ten days.

September 5, northbound solo. Assuming I don't sober up after the sobo trip, I'm going to push it nobo. Here are my goals, most important first:

1) Don't die (duh)
2) Finish
3) Hike independent of time-of-day cycle.
4) Maintain >3mph on trail, including short breaks.
5) Finish in <5 days

Base weight plan is <10, currently at 13, working on clothing mostly.
I'll carry my inReach tracker.
Food is 7# MyoMalt, 2# solids (clif bars?) + electrolytes.

I recently hiked 40mi over 6500' elevation gain in 13 hours including a 30 min break, but that was near sea level. Doing that 5 times in a row? Not easy, but doable? I'm trying to squeeze in an 80mi non-stop trip next month. Train, train, train.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 14:52:27 MDT Print View

If you want a great training hike come out to the Bob Open in late May. Depending on route I may be doing 90-120 miles over a three day period. Would be a great warmup.

As far as nutrition, how many calories per day will you be doing. My quick math had you at about 4k a day which I think is low for what you have planned, although you may weigh less less than I do. My rule of thumb..... 100 calories per mile plus end of day dinner consisting of 500 calories of carbs plus protein for recovery. (Don't have the protein amount dialed in exactly.). I would be concerned that you will fade after your first day if you can't replenish your glycogen adequately enough at the end of the day.

One final note, don't overtrain. If you can do sixty miles non-stop and still walk the next day then you should be able to sustain 40mpd sustained. (Maltos hiking theory - you can sustain 2/3rds of your single day mileage high.)

Good luck in your training and the hike

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 15:00:49 MDT Print View

"My rule of thumb..... 100 calories per mile plus end of day dinner consisting of 500 calories of carbs plus protein for recovery."

Isn't that on the low side? If it is 30 miles per day, then that is only 3500 calories.

Geez, I probably burn that much just walking into the horse racing park.

--B.G.--

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 18:16:13 MDT Print View

maintaining a > 3 mph pace for 5 days is challenging in the Sierra.
222 miles (from the Portal) split over 5 days is 45 miles a day.
I think its more efficient (meaning less taxing on the body) to hike longer hours at a slightly slower pace, taking short breaks, and a 5 hr night stop.
hiking 18 hrs a day, you can do 45 mile days at a 2.5 mph pace, much more reasonable.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Re: Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 18:20:46 MDT Print View

"Isn't that on the low side? If it is 30 miles per day, then that is only 3500 calories."

For short duration hikes I will rely on body fat to supplement the carbs. So with your 30mpd example I would take about 4000 calories (500 calories of protein) and would expect to burn somewhere around 2000 calories in body fat for a typical hike. (I use a daily daily burn of 200 calories per mile for hikes of 30+ mpd). This strategy has passed the test. of high mile back to back day (and beyond). But this would be a terrible strategy for a long duration hike.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/01/2013 18:29:23 MDT Print View

"maintaining a > 3 mph pace for 5 days is challenging in the Sierra.
222 miles (from the Portal) split over 5 days is 45 miles a day.
I think its more efficient (meaning less taxing on the body) to hike longer hours at a slightly slower pace, taking short breaks, and a 5 hr night stop.
hiking 18 hrs a day, you can do 45 mile days at a 2.5 mph pace, much more reasonable."

I agree with some of the above but not all. I agree the focus shouldn't be on speed, the pace should be the most natural and efficient. For me that often will be about 3mph but I do have a pretty long stride. I do know that it is counterproductive to force speed. You end up paying dearly later.

Nathan, one thing I used to watch on my thru hike was the distance each day before walking became a chore. If you don't watch that during your training hikes then you want want to try it. The goal is to push that point out further and further. You can try to vary your pace and see what impact that has on your "comfort point"

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
My calcs on 04/05/2013 11:24:57 MDT Print View

I based the MyoMalt on 1Lb = 30 miles. (2000 cal/lb, 200 cal/hr).
If I maintain 3mph, then 7 lb should be enough during the hikes.
On the treadmill, 3mph seems to equate to about 400cal/hr, figure 500-600 on grade.
I'm 5'10", 175, 20% fat (according to omron scale and pinch measurements)
Shouldn't have too much trouble burning 200+ cal/hr of fat, the rest glycogen.
I plan on sleeping 5 hours every 30 miles or so:
72 hours hiking, 6x5 hrs sleep, 102 hours total, fudge it out to 5 days.
I guess I can absorb 5hrs x 200cal = 1000 cal per nap, another 3 pounds.
That works out to 4800 cal/day.
According to Aaron Sorensen, I won't eat that much?

My recent 40 miler went thus:
miles elev feet mph pace
0 - 15 +2200 -2200 3.75 16:00
15 - 22 +2300 2.94 20:24
30 min nap
22 - 34 +1800 -3200 2.58 23:15
34 - 40 - 900 4.10 14:38
40 miles, 13 hours = 3.08 mph
You can see I really dropped off after mile 22 even though it was a lot of downhill.
But then, without a hill to climb, I really took off and frankly could've kept that up.
I had trouble with cramps in my quads - I mentioned that elsewhere.

Fun, no?

Brandon =Þ
(Beeen) - MLife

Locale: California
Re: My calcs on 04/05/2013 11:49:25 MDT Print View

"I had trouble with cramps in my quads - I mentioned that elsewhere"

The same active ingredients may be in your MyoMalt, but are you contemplating anything like Sportlegs Supplement?

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: My calcs on 04/05/2013 12:02:33 MDT Print View

" You can see I really dropped off after mile 22 "


one thing I've learned running ultras (especially 100's) is that the harder you push early on the more you will drop off down the road, it comes back to haunt you.

I would suggest a pace the entire first 2 days of JMT where you feel like you are holding yourself back, it will pay dividends the last 2 days.

also, your 40 mile training effort does not really relate that well to how you will perform over 222 miles in a 5 day effort. the two involve somewhat different things.
so I would suggest here ... yes do the 40 mile training days, but don't try and micro manage the pace of those days, just do the miles.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/05/2013 18:01:29 MDT Print View

What to expect while moving fast on the JMT

Constant headache
Elevation that sucks every drop of fluid out of you, (you have to drink a lot).
JMT distances are not "real" distances.
You can think you are moving at a 3mph pace and something 9 miles away is 3 hours away, right.
2 hours and 15 minutes later, you are see a sign that says you have 3.2 miles left. (This will happen).
Averaging 3mph while hiking WILL NOT HAPPEN.

Even trying for 2.5mph for 18 hours the whole way will by far be the hardest thing you have ever done.

The only thing that will change any of this is if you live and train at elevation, or spend a good 3-5 weeks at elevation before your trip.

But that's why we do it, right?
Good luck

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Re Sportlegs Supplement on 04/08/2013 00:53:24 MDT Print View

Interesting read about lactate. I'll look into that more.

Aaron, you're right, for some strange reason we do do it...

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/08/2013 08:39:43 MDT Print View

Nathan, Aaron, and others

what would be your preferred pack for a 5 day JMT speed hike ?

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Pack on 04/08/2013 12:06:40 MDT Print View

I have a Golite Peak (26 oz) that fits all including a BV500 for the sobo. It's not long enough in the torso, so I may need something else. A totally legal nobo run without can requires no-camp hiking from Forester to Pinchot (30mi) and again from Donohue to Happy Isles (38mi) - not a problem.

My long training hikes have been with a Camelback ballasted up to ~18 pounds. No belt and it barely bothers me.

7 pounds of MyoMalt and 2 pounds of solids take up a lot of room and need to be "formed well" to be comfortable.

What I would really like is for everything to fit in a fanny pack with a batman belt.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Pack on 04/08/2013 12:36:40 MDT Print View

"My long training hikes have been with a Camelback ballasted up to ~18 pounds."

It is really hard to find good ultralightweight ballast these days.

--B.G.--

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: JMT Fasthike on 04/08/2013 18:53:01 MDT Print View

I would go with a pack that fits you comfortably first.
The ability to have a pack have the weight rest on you hips is well worth the little bigger size.
There are so many packs that are still very light out there that can fit your need.
My 4 day 21 hour JMT was with tiny pack that had all the weight on my shoulders and it sucked.

It also depends on if you are going to be bringing a bear can?
A nicely padded pack is mice too.

I would guess that a pack that would fit the need s of this would be something in between 20-25 litters.
A 20 litter slender well padded pack would be what I would like, (trying to keep it under 1.5 pounds).

Shoes are the hardest thing for me. As of now, I would go for my Asics Scouts. They are not good runners, but are very rugged and a perfect fast passed extreme rugged trail shoe.

I started with a full pack weight (with water) at 16lbs. 10.5 of food, 24 ounces of water, a 9 ounce jacket and 4 ounce long sleeve shirt. The rest was just bug sprays, maps and stuff.
I really want to do the high route this year, although I don't think I would have the time.
I think I would link the southern route all the way to hwy 120.

Edited by awsorensen on 04/08/2013 18:55:27 MDT.

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Likes on 04/08/2013 19:24:41 MDT Print View

This forum server needs a like button so I can keep tagging Bob's posts. I read one the other day and thought, "that must be B.G." before I even looked.

Aaron - how much of that 10 lbs of food did you eat?

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Likes on 04/08/2013 21:09:18 MDT Print View

I ate about 8.25-8.5 lbs of the food.

I would still take the 10.5. That allows you to finish even with a few bad days.
I was not that hungry and it slowed me down. I also didn't drink enough.
The elevation just sapped everything out of me.
If I was able to eat and drink more like I normally do, it would have been a little faster.
I also wasn't trying for a record so the pace I wanted to hike was much better than the pace I needed to for a record.

Those record attempts would drain me of everything in the first day. All from elevation effects.

Edited by awsorensen on 04/08/2013 21:12:26 MDT.

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Re: Re: Likes on 04/10/2013 15:23:27 MDT Print View

It always happens that the second day is the bear.

I'm wondering whether a SOBO is easier because of the elevation. I've heard it said that the hard part is the first climb out of Happy Isles, but if you start as the Portal the Whitney climb is worse: same gain but 4K' higher. The flip side is running out of energy right as it gets steeper and higher. Also the northern end has a lot more in the way of services as you arrive in pieces.

However, there is an insidious element that creeps in when you march north through Lyell: those shining lights of Tuolumne tempting, tempting with only 20 miles to go. No such easy out heading south over Forester.