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Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
Warm downjacket for the "waiting time" (photographer) on 03/26/2013 06:35:12 MDT Print View

I'm an amateur photographer and am often standing around for 2-3 hours without moving.
I've got an excellent primaloft jacket that is warm enough for sport activities, but it's not enough for
things like this.
Therefore I am looking for a good, warm and lightweight down jacket that I can use for this purpose.
Since the prices are dropping at the end of the season here, it's a good time currently.

I am using 4-5 Rab Jackets and I'm very happy with them, that's why I had a look at the following jackets:

Rab Summit Jacket, http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/down_1/p-summit-jacket-p.html (maybe too warm?)
Rab Neutrino Plus Jacket, http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/down_1/neutrino-plus-jacket.html
Rab Infinity Jacket, http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/down_1/p-infinity-jacket-p.html

I've left out the endurance versions since I think if it is that cold, it's usually not really wet.
So I don't need the endurance shell..
But I'm unsure which of these jackets are suitable, maybe someone here has already experience with one of them?

I'm of course also open to alternatives to Rab (I'm from Europe so not all brands are easily reachable though).
I want to use the jacket also for cold winter touring and camp evenings.

Thanks a lot!
Christoph

Johan Engberg
(luffarjohan) - M

Locale: Wrong place at the right rime
Warm downjacket for the "waiting time" (photographer)" on 03/26/2013 07:17:53 MDT Print View

There is a review on the Rab Infinity in the members section if you can see that.

Or if you want to be a little bit unorthodox go and check "jerven fjÀllduk" out. http://jerven.mediabook.no/5/

It's a norwegian company making isolated bivy/bothybags for hunters/military/photographers/anyone who wants to be still for a long time. It's not lightweight but for the intended use it's perfect. Quite versatile and probably perfect for your intended use but I don't think it can do as much double duty as you want.

and to paraphrase: It's made right here in Europe. :)

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Warm downjacket for the "waiting time" (photographer)" on 03/26/2013 11:29:06 MDT Print View

I bought a rab infinity and I have to say that it is, by far, the warmest coat I've ever used. It is embarrassingly puffy, especially the hood, and I have never, ever been cold in it.

For info, I live in Chicago and have bought and gotten rid of literally hundreds of coats and jackets looking for one that would keep me warm in the windy, chilly city. If it were longer it would be perfect (when it's that cold I like my bum covered), but if I have enough insulation and wind proof ness for bottoms I'm good.

This keeps me warm while I take my pup to Lake Michigan in below zero temps and 30 mph winds. Enuf said.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Warm downjacket for the "waiting time" (photographer) on 03/26/2013 13:29:31 MDT Print View

Christoph,

Your question has no logical answer unless you specify the minimum temperature you must be comfortable standing around for 2-3 hours.

steven franchuk
(Surf) - M
Re: Warm downjacket for the "waiting time" (photographer) on 03/26/2013 21:27:20 MDT Print View

in cool conditions don't forget your legs. The worlds best insulated jacket won't do you any good if you don't insulateo your legs with fleece or down pants. Long underwear is also very helpful.

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
logical answer.. on 03/27/2013 03:20:05 MDT Print View

Well I think that there is a logical answer to this question. I'm not looking for a jacket that I can use at a specific temperature.

I'm rather looking for people that have experience with one of the jackets and can tell me when for example a summit is enough, when it is too warm, etc.

The ranges I need a jacket like that are 0 to -20 degrees celsius I would guess.

I of course do have something warm for my legs, that's why I specifically ask for a jacket..
The Jerven stuff is more for stationary use as it seems, but I have to be able to move..

Regarding the above mentioned jackets, the fill distribution is:

275g of 750 fill power goose down at 880g (summit
275g of 800 fill European Goose down at 785g (neutrino plus)
210g of 850 fill European down 500g (infinity)

does anyone know how this relates to each other? :)

Edited by chbla on 03/27/2013 03:32:58 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: logical answer.. on 03/27/2013 09:28:18 MDT Print View

Christoph,

The 1.5 MET rate your stated activity is less than the 1.75 MET average for camp chores; this requires a warmer jacket for the same temperature. The lowest anticipated temperature is the critical one. The higher end of the range can just be handled by unzipping the jacket.

All three of the Rab jackets you asked about are more than adequate for a low of 0C at 1.5 MET. Your best Rab choice for low weight and cost is the Infinity. It will allow you to be thermo-neutral doing your activity to a low of -4C.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Feathered Friends on 03/27/2013 09:53:05 MDT Print View

This is probably obvious but: Check out feathered friends hooded helios or voalant jackets... I have had both they work great for being stagnant. Great jackets for camp and hanging out waiting for the perfect light.

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
Jacket on 03/27/2013 09:55:49 MDT Print View

Hi Richard,

Thanks a lot for your insight.

Out of curiosity: How do you come to the conclusion regarding temperature, based on the jackets and the met rate?
I also thought of combining the Jacket with one of my down vests, for flexibility.

How would you rate the other two jackets temperature wise, and what do you think is needed for a met rate of the camp activity you stated?

Thanks a lot,
Christoph

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Jacket on 03/27/2013 11:53:58 MDT Print View

Christoph,

You can BPL forum search my related past posts on these topics. The multi-part answers are far too long and complicated for me to repeat.

Your camp chores MET rate will average 1.75 MET and will require less insulation to be thermo-neutral at the same temperature.

Jacket 1.5 MET T-N C 1.75 MET T-N C

Rab Infinity -4 -10

Rab Neutrino Plus -11 -18

Rab Summit Jacket -8 -15

Peter Fokkinga
(nitto)

Locale: the Netherlands
calculating necessary insulation on 03/27/2013 18:10:27 MDT Print View

Richard,

In similar vein, could you give an estimate on the amount (weight) of 900 cuin (US) needed in a jacket to be comfortable at 1.75 MET and 0 degrees C? Assuming a simple hat, and something like the current (3.8oz Polartec PD) Cap4 shirt as a baselayer? And would the material of the shell (ultralight 10d vs regular 20d) make a perceptible difference in isolation?

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: calculating necessary insulation on 03/27/2013 19:12:56 MDT Print View

Peter,

3.41 oz. There will be no perceptible insulation difference (wind or no wind) between 10d and 20d shells since they are both down-proof fabrics for this application.

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
calculations on 03/28/2013 01:57:21 MDT Print View

Thanks a lot Richard!

That's interesting, I thought the summit might be warmer.
Would it make a big difference to get one of the endurance versions of these Rab Jackets?

Do you know, by heart, any alternatives that I should consider to the Rab jackets?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: calculations on 03/28/2013 02:36:52 MDT Print View

The Endurance coating is fairly water/moisture resistant. Maybe more importantly for some, is the rather "dull" finish and hand as opposed to the regular Quantum GL's glossy look and "slippery" hand.

Unless weight is more important, the Neutrino Plus will be a much warmer feeling jacket if you are just sitting quietly for hours on end. The Infinity is a rather short cut meant for climbing.

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
yeti.pl alternative on 03/28/2013 03:49:26 MDT Print View

Thanks Rick, I thought so, yes

In the meantime, someone else pointed out these alternatives from yeti.pl:

Torre II down jacket Black DRY
http://www.yeti.com.pl/en/spiwory-kurtki-kamizelki-puchowe/details/1435/14/odzie%C5%BC-puchowa/kurtka-puchowa-torre-ii

Pro II Jacket black dry
http://www.yeti.com.pl/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&Itemid=57&category_id=14&product_id=930

Both with 860 cuin down.. but I can't see the fill weight or total weight anywhere.

Peter Fokkinga
(nitto)

Locale: the Netherlands
Re: Re: calculating necessary insulation on 03/29/2013 02:36:05 MDT Print View

Thank you Richard, this is really helping me!

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
calculation on 04/03/2013 14:15:04 MDT Print View

Richard, is there any thread/post where you explain how to calculate these values?
Then I could do it for some jacket models and get some estimates.

I will receive the data for the yeti.pl jackets soon

Grave Worm
(Graveworm) - MLife

Locale: London
Infinity view and possible alternatives to consider. on 04/03/2013 23:36:42 MDT Print View

I have the Infinity and it's a great jacket but it is stitch through and it would not be my preferred jacket at -20C especially if I was standing around. I don't know about the Neutrino Plus but that has a Box Wall construction. If you don't mind waiting and they are within your budget then I am sure PHD have something that will fit the bill or if they don't they do a design your own jacket they will also customise any of their range to suit. I have 4 Jackets and a vest from them (Together with a few Bags) and I am very happy with all of them. For minus 20C I would be very comfortable standing around in the Hispar.

Edited by Graveworm on 04/03/2013 23:37:55 MDT.

Christoph Blank
(chbla) - F

Locale: Austria
continuing on 09/13/2013 04:49:02 MDT Print View

alright - the summer stopped my plans for this jacket, but now it's time to continue :)

Richard, as written above already, do you mind sharing how you calculate these values based on the specs? I'm right now especially looking at the Yeti jackets..

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
+1 on the ff volant for your described needs on 09/13/2013 15:15:32 MDT Print View

not sure of their avalibilty in eu. i got mine off of ebay for a steal and they show-up with some regularity, at good prices and in a multitude of sizes.