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Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/25/2013 18:08:25 MDT Print View

I like the Esbit Titanium Folding Stove as it is clever design and pretty easy to use. As I have designed Esbit stoves before and thought that I would see if I could tweak the design and come up with a more efficient design. Well, I think that I have done this and I also think that this is a great DIY project. The idea is to add a ring to focus the airflow into and out of the Esbit cube (see the picture below):

Esbit Foccus

By doing so, I believe that this has increased the efficiency of the stove. Compared to a control test, I was able to heat up 4 cups of water 15 F hotter when using the ring (n=1). As I said earlier, I think that this is a great DIY project and who share this initial discovery with you. This design is far from optimized and there may be a lot more gains to be made by further tweaking of the concept. Best regards – Jon

If you wish, I made a video of the idea and test:
http://youtu.be/TtECThifq70

Nick Larsen
(stingray4540) - F

Locale: South Bay
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/26/2013 03:07:01 MDT Print View

Hmmm. Nice idea.

What about making the ring taller to act as your windscreen as well? You could also cut notches in the bottom so it slips over the arms and sits lower to the ground, then you could play with how much air to give it to get the best efficiency.
It also might be worth playing with a larger diameter, or even an inverted cone...

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Great Idea! on 03/26/2013 08:44:20 MDT Print View

Looks like taking the bottom off of a cat food can will get the job done? I'm going to try this when I get home to see what this does for my kit.

Thanks for sharing Jon!

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Nice DIY Project on 03/26/2013 10:56:40 MDT Print View

Great idea, thanks for sharing.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/26/2013 16:26:23 MDT Print View

What was the difference in the residue deposited on the posts after each burn? That would tell you something about efficiency as well.

Plus, did I understand the video correctly. Was the tab you used with the focusing ring broken? If so, then the added surface area for combustion could potentially explain the higher temperature you got with the experimental case versus the control.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:38:38 MDT Print View

Michael, I don't think that the cracked Esbit would make a difference. If I broke up the Esbit into four pieces to increase the area I would increase the burn rate but have little effect on efficiency. Besides the overall time to flame out was close betwen the to test. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti folding stove idea. on 03/27/2013 16:43:20 MDT Print View

Excellent stuff and Thanks! I will play with your great thoughts soon.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:45:01 MDT Print View

I am just guessing here, but I would not be surprised if the flame out time is not the best measure here, as it assume the same energy output pathway over time. But regardless, the easy way to answer this is just do some more trials to see if the results are repeatable. Preferably with a more identical experimental set up (i.e., unbroken tab)

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:55:33 MDT Print View

Michael, I agree more testing should be done. Here is the way that I looked it: if the focussing ring increased the final water temperature by 15 F for 4 cups, then when boiling 2 cups, it should be ~30F. Even with some experimental error, getting Esbit to output a 30 F change is in the direction of goodness. Since I am not a die hard Esbit user AND there a lot of them on this forum, I thought it would be a good DIY project. The Esbit Ti folding stove has some physical limitations that might limit optimization (particularly the overall height). So, I posted this finding as a starting point for others to tweak and optimize. At the end of the day, this group might come up with a pretty slick and efficient system. Jon

Edited by jonfong on 03/27/2013 17:44:25 MDT.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 17:33:11 MDT Print View

exactly. I am a user of the esbit wing stove (not surprisingly given my interest). and in theory i should shut up and do the testing myself. right after I figure out how to get away from this computer and do some real hikes. if someone else beats me to it, though, I won't complain.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 13:36:08 MDT Print View

Here is a simple idea at 0.1 Gram a Starbucks Double Shot can cut to fit. It is like the Gram Cracker. I might punch some holes in the top of Starbucks can top to see if the flames spread better.
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005
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Edited by Creachen on 03/28/2013 13:40:43 MDT.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 13:49:31 MDT Print View

my thinking exactly, in terms of materials (cheap Al can). eager to see your results.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 14:13:02 MDT Print View

I think that you will find that the aluminum will get too hot and anneal to a very soft state. It would probably be better to get some titanium foil and make the shape. Send me a PM and I can probably send you a scrap piece or two that would be the right size. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 14:36:44 MDT Print View

Jon, I have a hole punch and was thinking of putting maybe 4-5 holes around the top to see if this spreads the flames a little better underneath the pot. The aluminum can is recyclable and I a can use a different Double-Shot can on every trip. But Ti does last longer and I would like to try it out if you have some to spare. I will PM you.

Thanks,
Jay Wilkerson

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 17:21:29 MDT Print View

006
I will test the theory this weekend. Ti Wing/Kinda Gram Cracker

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Ti Esbit Wing Modification on 03/28/2013 21:13:11 MDT Print View

004
Starbucks Double Shot can at 0.1 gram- Almost a Gram Cracker

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Cat food can is a no-go on 03/29/2013 00:22:45 MDT Print View

I started this thread a week or so ago.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=74560

The cat can idea I had at that time didn't work out at all. I read this thread and figured that I'd give it one more try. I cut a 1/4" off the bottom and it fit perfectly on the stove. If you follow the link, you'll see that the can is well ventilated.

I first tried it with a .25oz Coghlan tablet. There was no difference in burn times or the temperature obtained. I then tried it with the .5oz Esbit tablet. Once again, no notable performance difference.

I have some aluminum from a craft store that I use for my windscreens. I'm going to play around with it and try to figure this one out. I'm sure using reflective material will probably help but I suspect that ventilation plays a key role in this project as well.

The cat food can will be officially retired to the garbage can.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 17:16:00 MDT Print View

Hey Jon, You were correct about the aluminum. It started to catch fire then it got bent out of shape and wrinkled up quickly! It seems like Titanium is the only answer. I will try that next. Thanks

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 18:41:24 MDT Print View

Start with the 6 ounce steel can and dial in the design. Then switch over to titanium or stainless steel. The titanium foil that I sent you should arrive early in the week. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 18:48:59 MDT Print View

Thanks Jon, I will look for a steel can to cut to shape.

Jay