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Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea
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Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/25/2013 18:08:25 MDT Print View

I like the Esbit Titanium Folding Stove as it is clever design and pretty easy to use. As I have designed Esbit stoves before and thought that I would see if I could tweak the design and come up with a more efficient design. Well, I think that I have done this and I also think that this is a great DIY project. The idea is to add a ring to focus the airflow into and out of the Esbit cube (see the picture below):

Esbit Foccus

By doing so, I believe that this has increased the efficiency of the stove. Compared to a control test, I was able to heat up 4 cups of water 15 F hotter when using the ring (n=1). As I said earlier, I think that this is a great DIY project and who share this initial discovery with you. This design is far from optimized and there may be a lot more gains to be made by further tweaking of the concept. Best regards – Jon

If you wish, I made a video of the idea and test:
http://youtu.be/TtECThifq70

Nick Larsen
(stingray4540) - F

Locale: South Bay
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/26/2013 03:07:01 MDT Print View

Hmmm. Nice idea.

What about making the ring taller to act as your windscreen as well? You could also cut notches in the bottom so it slips over the arms and sits lower to the ground, then you could play with how much air to give it to get the best efficiency.
It also might be worth playing with a larger diameter, or even an inverted cone...

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Great Idea! on 03/26/2013 08:44:20 MDT Print View

Looks like taking the bottom off of a cat food can will get the job done? I'm going to try this when I get home to see what this does for my kit.

Thanks for sharing Jon!

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Nice DIY Project on 03/26/2013 10:56:40 MDT Print View

Great idea, thanks for sharing.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/26/2013 16:26:23 MDT Print View

What was the difference in the residue deposited on the posts after each burn? That would tell you something about efficiency as well.

Plus, did I understand the video correctly. Was the tab you used with the focusing ring broken? If so, then the added surface area for combustion could potentially explain the higher temperature you got with the experimental case versus the control.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:38:38 MDT Print View

Michael, I don't think that the cracked Esbit would make a difference. If I broke up the Esbit into four pieces to increase the area I would increase the burn rate but have little effect on efficiency. Besides the overall time to flame out was close betwen the to test. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti folding stove idea. on 03/27/2013 16:43:20 MDT Print View

Excellent stuff and Thanks! I will play with your great thoughts soon.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:45:01 MDT Print View

I am just guessing here, but I would not be surprised if the flame out time is not the best measure here, as it assume the same energy output pathway over time. But regardless, the easy way to answer this is just do some more trials to see if the results are repeatable. Preferably with a more identical experimental set up (i.e., unbroken tab)

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 16:55:33 MDT Print View

Michael, I agree more testing should be done. Here is the way that I looked it: if the focussing ring increased the final water temperature by 15 F for 4 cups, then when boiling 2 cups, it should be ~30F. Even with some experimental error, getting Esbit to output a 30 F change is in the direction of goodness. Since I am not a die hard Esbit user AND there a lot of them on this forum, I thought it would be a good DIY project. The Esbit Ti folding stove has some physical limitations that might limit optimization (particularly the overall height). So, I posted this finding as a starting point for others to tweak and optimize. At the end of the day, this group might come up with a pretty slick and efficient system. Jon

Edited by jonfong on 03/27/2013 17:44:25 MDT.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove idea on 03/27/2013 17:33:11 MDT Print View

exactly. I am a user of the esbit wing stove (not surprisingly given my interest). and in theory i should shut up and do the testing myself. right after I figure out how to get away from this computer and do some real hikes. if someone else beats me to it, though, I won't complain.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 13:36:08 MDT Print View

Here is a simple idea at 0.1 Gram a Starbucks Double Shot can cut to fit. It is like the Gram Cracker. I might punch some holes in the top of Starbucks can top to see if the flames spread better.
004
005
002

Edited by Creachen on 03/28/2013 13:40:43 MDT.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 13:49:31 MDT Print View

my thinking exactly, in terms of materials (cheap Al can). eager to see your results.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 14:13:02 MDT Print View

I think that you will find that the aluminum will get too hot and anneal to a very soft state. It would probably be better to get some titanium foil and make the shape. Send me a PM and I can probably send you a scrap piece or two that would be the right size. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 14:36:44 MDT Print View

Jon, I have a hole punch and was thinking of putting maybe 4-5 holes around the top to see if this spreads the flames a little better underneath the pot. The aluminum can is recyclable and I a can use a different Double-Shot can on every trip. But Ti does last longer and I would like to try it out if you have some to spare. I will PM you.

Thanks,
Jay Wilkerson

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/28/2013 17:21:29 MDT Print View

006
I will test the theory this weekend. Ti Wing/Kinda Gram Cracker

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Ti Esbit Wing Modification on 03/28/2013 21:13:11 MDT Print View

004
Starbucks Double Shot can at 0.1 gram- Almost a Gram Cracker

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Cat food can is a no-go on 03/29/2013 00:22:45 MDT Print View

I started this thread a week or so ago.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=74560

The cat can idea I had at that time didn't work out at all. I read this thread and figured that I'd give it one more try. I cut a 1/4" off the bottom and it fit perfectly on the stove. If you follow the link, you'll see that the can is well ventilated.

I first tried it with a .25oz Coghlan tablet. There was no difference in burn times or the temperature obtained. I then tried it with the .5oz Esbit tablet. Once again, no notable performance difference.

I have some aluminum from a craft store that I use for my windscreens. I'm going to play around with it and try to figure this one out. I'm sure using reflective material will probably help but I suspect that ventilation plays a key role in this project as well.

The cat food can will be officially retired to the garbage can.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 17:16:00 MDT Print View

Hey Jon, You were correct about the aluminum. It started to catch fire then it got bent out of shape and wrinkled up quickly! It seems like Titanium is the only answer. I will try that next. Thanks

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 18:41:24 MDT Print View

Start with the 6 ounce steel can and dial in the design. Then switch over to titanium or stainless steel. The titanium foil that I sent you should arrive early in the week. Jon

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 18:48:59 MDT Print View

Thanks Jon, I will look for a steel can to cut to shape.

Jay

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 20:47:42 MDT Print View

I'm not so sure that aluminum is a complete no go for this idea. I used Home Depot aluminum flashing on a somewhat similar project and saw these results.

I was using a tray stove like the one pictured below.

Tray stove

It was set up under my 1 cup cook pot as seen in the next picture.

Combo windscreen and tray stove under 1 cup cook pot

After a test burn and boil my combo windscreen and pot support looked like this...

Coppertone patina but not destroyed

...it developed a copper toned patina due to the discoloration of the coating on the aluminum flashing material. The good news was that it maintained its shape and mechanical strength.

Combo windscreen before test burn

The ends were joined with eyelets and the holes were punched with a standard paper hole punch.

Based on my results I'm pretty sure that a serviceable focusing ring for the tri-wing Esbit stove can be made from aluminum flashing.

My combo windscreen weighed in at 7 grams. I am interested in seeing what a focusing ring made of Ti weighs for the tri-wing Esbit stove

Party On,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 03/31/2013 20:57:35 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 21:15:47 MDT Print View

Newton, the advantage of the Trail Designs Gram Cracker is that it folds down to almost nothing. Yours looks like it might be durable enough, but bulkier.

Yup, you can do a lot with aluminum roof flashing. I wonder why they don't sell titanium roof flashing!

I used to call it a flame concentrator. You call it a focusing ring.

--B.G.--

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 03/31/2013 22:26:43 MDT Print View

I was only showing the components of what I used in my tests. I believe the tray stove puts the fuel tablet in roughly the same height from the "ground" as the tri-wing stove.

The picture of the stove was only there to show what was used and not in comparison to the Gram cracker or a Tri Wing Esbit stove.

If you view the video at...

http://youtu.be/TtECThifq70

...you'll see it was Jon who dubbed it a focusing ring. I actually call mine a combo windscreen and pot stand. Look closely in the second picture of my post, the "combo" is supporting my cook pot, resting on the reflective surface and encompassing my tray stove.

My post was meant to show that I think the aluminum can version failed only because it was too thin and not because it was aluminum. The first line of my earlier post should have made that clear.

Happy Easter Bob. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Roger Williams
(KayDub) - M

Locale: N. Idaho
Re: Re: Re: Re: Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 04/01/2013 10:02:45 MDT Print View

It seems like if I could mount 2 wings on the long sides of the platform, I would have a gram cracker with a potstand, & I would just use the windscreen I use with my cat can stove.
So what is the height of the pot over the Esbit when suspended in the Caldera Cone?

Thayne N
(teethless) - MLife

Locale: SF CA
super off topic on 04/02/2013 17:18:51 MDT Print View

but nice minor threat sticker ya got there Jay!

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: Ti Esbit Wing Modification on 04/02/2013 21:24:43 MDT Print View

Any reports on progress with the ring testing. Inquiring (and lazy) minds wanna know.
mg

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Yes and no on 04/02/2013 22:43:43 MDT Print View

I'm working out a design to integrate Jon's idea with a smaller windscreen in hopes of producing a more efficient combustion chamber. I'm traveling at the moment but hope to build it next week.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Better Esbit Ti Folding Stove Idea. on 04/02/2013 22:56:52 MDT Print View

Thayne, MINOR THREAT!
Back in the Day in LA
6257

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/02/2013 23:39:29 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:36:40 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Gram cracker + folding stove doesn't = Reese's PB cup on 04/03/2013 08:41:27 MDT Print View

Daniel,

I added wings to the Esbit tray of my ti wing to simulate a gram cracker and found no notable change in performance. My assumption was that it's too close to the pot. Since mine was a MYOG, I was wondering if you've tried it w the real thing and if so, what were your observations?

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 12:22:27 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/11/2013 12:48:58 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 12:59:03 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:33:54 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Fuel efficiency on 04/03/2013 13:37:03 MDT Print View

I should have stated up front that I'm looking for increased fuel efficiency. Ideally I'd like to boil 16oz of 40* water with one .25oz coghlan tablet in under 13 minutes. Mu current cook set is under 6oz so I don't want to add several ozs to my kit to achieve this. I'm getting close but no cigar as of yet.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Fuel efficiency on 04/03/2013 14:14:13 MDT Print View

I agree, I think that the goal is to improve the fuel efficiency. I have read about people getting 4 cups to boil using a single Esbit tablet. I have never been able to do that myself. If you can boil 2 cups with ½ or 4 cups with a full Esbit tablet, show us how you do it. The idea of the focusing ring was to improve the performance of the Esbit Folding Ti stove, but the bigger picture would be to understand the burning fundamentals and make a more efficient stove. My 2 cents - Jon

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 16:22:42 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:31:21 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 16:29:36 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:30:30 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Couple ideas on 04/03/2013 17:29:16 MDT Print View

Thinking about two concentric tubes ventilated similarly to a gasifier stove which will double as a combustion chamber and wind shield. I'm going to try this with and without the ti wing..,, when I'm done with my family vacation in San Fran that is,

I'd like to incorporate the snow peak ti bowl into this system. Seems like a better design than my SP 700 to capture the heat.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
Engineering 101 on 04/03/2013 17:38:52 MDT Print View

"Normal people ... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."

Keep up the good work!

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 18:20:49 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:25:22 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: snow peak ti bowl 5" X 3" 1.6 oz. on 04/03/2013 18:31:43 MDT Print View

I've been using the Snow Peak titanium bowl for a while now with an Esbit burner. It seems to work fine.

The Snow Peak bowl has been listed several places with a weight of 1.6 ounces. That is a bit inaccurate, and 1.8 ounces is very close. For a lid, I use three layers of aluminum foil pressed together, and then a slight rim is folded. That lid is not as durable as my carbon fiber lid, but the foil can be folded and stuffed for transport.

--B.G.--

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: snow peak ti bowl 5" X 3" 1.8 oz. on 04/03/2013 18:34:24 MDT Print View

I concur. My bowl is 1.8 oz. also.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/03/2013 18:37:31 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:23:19 MDT.

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: snow peak ti bowl 5" X 3" 1.8 oz. on 04/03/2013 19:57:24 MDT Print View

I just reweighed my Ti bowl. It just flicked over to 1.9 ounces.

I hate you guys.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Couple ideas on 04/04/2013 08:58:25 MDT Print View

It seems to me like you may be putting the cart before the horse. There can be a fuel efficiency difference between small and skinny mugs verses short and squat mugs. Since your objective is to design an Esbit stove for the best fuel efficiency, testing on something wide like the K-Mart grease pot would be prudent. Once the design is tested and validated, then switch to a mug or the Snow Peak bowl and see if the results transfer. My guess is that a good windscreen will also be required. My 2 cents - Jon.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/04/2013 09:59:25 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 10:14:06 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/04/2013 10:08:37 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 09:16:27 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Esbit characteristics on 04/04/2013 11:06:37 MDT Print View

I recall reading that one of the issues with building Esbit holders is allowing for a little liquified fuel around the tab and that this was one of the strengths of the Gram Cracker style. Any thoughts?

Also, I've always thought the wing stoves were too low. Does anyone have any experience or data on an optimal height for a Esbit stove? The designs vary quite a bit.

I assume most of the older designs were tilted to packing efficiency. The original folding stove design incorporated fuel storage and cheap wartime mass production and warming canned rations rather than boiling. The Ti wing stoves are lightened versions of an older steel design that I believe had a military origin. In other words, not optimal designs for fuel use and/or boiling times.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Esbit on 04/04/2013 11:33:45 MDT Print View

Can't speak for the history of the ti wing design but overall Esbit's cooking systems do not make best use of their fuel. I have one of their integrated kits and it's very disappointing from a weight and fuel efficiency perspective.

They advertise .5oz of fuel to boil 16oz of water. My experience has been that .5oz is overkill but I'm having a hard time getting the job done with .25oz. Maybe .375oz is the magic number? Still shooting for .25 oz of fuel though this may be ambitious for an UL kit.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Question of the day on 04/04/2013 11:34:44 MDT Print View

Are we an Esbit cult?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Esbit characteristics on 04/04/2013 11:44:09 MDT Print View

"Does anyone have any experience or data on an optimal height for a Esbit stove?"

I use a titanium wing stove. I've tried some variations. What seems important is that the Esbit cube be insulated away from the cold earth, and that intake air gets to it from slightly below. Those conditions are met in the wing stove, since the Esbit cube is held a fraction of an inch above the earth. I've also built Esbit burners where the cube is held much higher, like 2 inches, and that doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I feel that the major dimension to be concerned with is from the burning cube to the pot bottom, but even that can vary depending on whether you are trying to get fuel efficiency, cooking speed, or whatever.

Many years ago I had a steel wing stove. It was OK, up to a point. The steel center pin rusted out, then the whole thing fell apart. However, titanium doesn't rust.

--B.G.--

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Esbit on 04/04/2013 11:57:38 MDT Print View

"Can't speak for the history of the ti wing design but overall Esbit's cooking systems do not make best use of their fuel."

Think about it. That is Esbit's marketing strategy. Get the user to burn up their special fuel faster, so that promotes more fuel sales. Also, the Esbit systems are optimized for Esbit fuel cubes, so you are unlikely to burn something else in there.

Let's spin this around the other way. Just suppose that there was a special Esbit cube that had roughly twice the cooking energy. Either it would go for twice as long or else boil water much faster, and it was in the same half-ounce cube. You would pay more for it, wouldn't you? How much more? Everybody would easily pay 10% more for it. A few people would pay 25% more for it. Would you pay 100% more for it?

--B.G.--

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
How much Esbit do you need? on 04/04/2013 12:38:22 MDT Print View

@ Ian "They advertise .5oz of fuel to boil 16oz of water. My experience has been that .5oz is overkill but I'm having a hard time getting the job done with .25oz. Maybe .375oz is the magic number? Still shooting for .25 oz of fuel though this may be ambitious for an UL kit."

I use Esbit quite often on extended trips. I am usually using a Caldera Cone with a 900 ml Evernew squat pot. I find that with this setup, I can heat up, but not boil 2 cups of water with a half tab (for coffee and hot cereal in the morning, for example). I like to put the bottom of my pot 1.5" above the top of my Esbit tab, but have not done any extensive testing of this. For my typical dinner (4 cups of water for 2 cups of tea and rehydrating/cooking a meal), I find that 1.5 tabs works well. I pour off my two cups of water for tea when the water is hot but not yet a rolling boil, then have enough heat left to bring things to a boil and even simmer a minute or two before it goes into the cozy. So 2 tabs or 1 oz of Esbit a day works well for my basic needs, with a couple extra tabs carried for extra hot drinks as needed.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Esbit characteristics on 04/04/2013 13:11:52 MDT Print View

"I feel that the major dimension to be concerned with is from the burning cube to the pot bottom, but even that can vary depending on whether you are trying to get fuel efficiency, cooking speed, or whatever."

I was totally talking about fuel-to-pot differences, assuming that there was adequate air supply. Four Dogs has gone into airflow issues and developed a fan-blade like cut in the bottom of the burner to aid combustion.

Note that the Esbit folding stove and the flat sheet metal emergency stove have slot vents around the cube (I don't get the arrows in the illustration)

Esbit emergency stove

I use a wing stove to make hot drinks, but I was never to worried about efficiency. The question begs to be asked and I'm sure we would see the same sort of issues as with alcohol and canister stoves on flame pattern and height. As far as windscreen design, I doubt there is much better than a cone, but I would prefer something dead simple that would drop inside the pot.

I wonder if louver style vents would help draw air in and up to the pot? A DIY builder could sculpt depressions in a block of wood to hammer aluminum flashing into to create the shapes. That should require just a simple cut in the metal to start the vent opening.

Or how about a tiny low speed fan under the burner, like an electronics cooling fan with the revolutions turned down?

Small fan

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/04/2013 14:23:56 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 09:15:57 MDT.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Unlikely to boil 2 cups of water with ½ tablet of Esbit on 04/04/2013 14:26:50 MDT Print View

Well, I thought that I would sit down and look at the numbers and compare methanol to Esbit. I took the Stored Energy values from zenstoves.net. I can boil 4 cups of 70 F water using 30 ml of DA. From this spreadsheet it says that 1 tablet of Esbit has 93% of the stored energy of 30 ml of methanol.

Esbit methanol


Then I scaled the energy and would estimate that you could get up to about 202 F with Esbit. Of course, this is assuming that the stove efficiencies are the same. Again, this is all just number crunching but it seems reasonable (of course, my math may not be correct). On a good day, I can get 4 cups of 70F water up to just short of 190 F. Maybe there is a way to design an Esbit stove that is more efficient than an alcohol stove. My 2 cents - Jon

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/04/2013 15:26:46 MDT Print View

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Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/11/2013 12:46:34 MDT.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Esbit Math using calories: 43.36 KCals needed for this project on 04/04/2013 15:44:40 MDT Print View

Keep in mind that a good alcohol stove runs in the 55 to 60% efficiency. +80% sets the bar pretty high. My 2 cents - Jon

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/04/2013 16:42:14 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/23/2013 09:15:24 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Frankenstein Cook kit: 65% efficient on 04/04/2013 17:10:44 MDT Print View

"Sign me up for the esbit cult, but only if there's a discount on bulk fuel purchases :)"

I'm still looking for a place to buy it by the pallet.

--B.G.--

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/05/2013 06:51:04 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/11/2013 12:41:41 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/05/2013 10:58:33 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/11/2013 12:41:09 MDT.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Thermometer accuracy problem... grumble,grumble on 04/05/2013 11:15:53 MDT Print View

Just start with ice water. That's how you calibrate a thermometer anyway. My 2 Cents - Jon

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 04/05/2013 13:41:32 MDT Print View

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Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/11/2013 12:40:29 MDT.