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Bill Reynolds
(billreyn1) - M

Locale: North East Georgia Mountains
Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 18:01:19 MDT Print View

With the Fire Maple FMS-300T weighing 1.6 oz, I am starting to question if I will stay with alcohol stoves or switch back to canisters. I am leaving for my AT thru in a couple of weeks. There are so many advantages to the canister in terms of being user friendly and foolproof and now the weight difference is minimal. When I think about all the times I have spilled alcohol, caught my gloves on fire, set a table at a shelter on fire and several others mishaps I am about ready to throw in the towel. My biggest concern will be resupplying along the AT. I haven't bought the Fire Maple yet but have an older Snowpeak and love just to be able to pull it out, screw on the canister and cook. Are any of the rest of you thinking the same thing?

Edited by billreyn1 on 03/24/2013 18:28:51 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for cannister on 03/24/2013 18:24:41 MDT Print View

"Are any of the rest of you thinking the same thing?"

Actually I was thinking not to hike with you -- you sound accident prone :)

As long as canisters are readily available I would go that route. Is this stove going to last over the trip? Have you used it a lot?

Bill Reynolds
(billreyn1) - M

Locale: North East Georgia Mountains
Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 18:28:08 MDT Print View

I guess it does sound like I am a little accident prone but that does represent many years of use and two years of working in wilderness therapy where I used it almost daily.

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
They make safety scissors for a reason on 03/24/2013 18:28:29 MDT Print View

Yea, you probably should stay away from alky stoves. I wouldn't want to camp next to you - it would be hard to enjoy my dinner with you running around on fire.

Ian Destroyer of Forums
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Esbit on 03/24/2013 18:30:48 MDT Print View

I've gone to Esbit for the reasons you've mentioned. I have a hard time justifying the extra weight of the canister plus stove when I'm solo but I gravitate towards it when I'm with my kids. I'd use my alcohol stove if I was doing a long through hike or traveling somewhere where I was worried about picking up Esbit or a canister once I got off the plane but that's about it.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 19:12:03 MDT Print View

You will never convince ALL the alkies.

Cheers

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 19:15:57 MDT Print View

> When I think about all the times I have spilled alcohol, caught my gloves on fire, set a table at a shelter on fire and several others mishaps


You should start drinking AFTER you try to light your alcohol stove. :) Honestly, the biggest mishap I've had is a flare-up because of too much alcohol in the stove.


Winter: Canister all the way!
3 Season: Alcohol!

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
"you will never convince ALL the alkies." on 03/24/2013 19:47:09 MDT Print View

there are support groups for that.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 19:57:19 MDT Print View

And what's the problem with using alcohol stoves?

hair on fire

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 20:04:08 MDT Print View

At what point do you guys think it's wise to switch to a canister stove? I'm asking about temperature ranges, wind, precipitation, etc.

Jan S
(karl-ton)
Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/24/2013 20:09:51 MDT Print View

"Are any of the rest of you thinking the same thing?"

No. But not because I think that the stoves are bad. The whole fuel system seems like a bad idea though from an environmental perspective. Having no way to refuel (as in go to a store get your gas and carry on) or recycle (bring the canisters to a store, have the remaining gas emptied out, get them tested and shipped back to stores) those fuel canisters always seems like a huge waste to me. But then I live in a country where soda cans have mostly been banned and non-recyclable plastic bottles can be brought to any store and you get some money back that you paid extra while buying the bottle. Yes, there is a word for it, but I haven't found a useful translation for it. The whole system is probably as unique as the German tax laws.

Edited by karl-ton on 03/24/2013 20:19:00 MDT.

Drew Jay
(drewjh) - F

Locale: Central Coast
Alcohol vs Canister on 03/24/2013 23:03:34 MDT Print View

Lately I've been analyzing actual carry weight between different alcohol setups (Caldera Sidewinder, Flatcat, white box/bottle stoves, cat can, Zelph stoves etc.) vs the lightest canister setups.

What I keep coming up with is that unless you are using a SUL type system (1oz stove with absolutely minimal fuel carried) to simply heat 2-4 cups of water a day, the intial carry weight of a canister setup is lighter, often considerably so. The alcohol stove systems don't reduce actual carried weight until more than halfway into your trip/halfway to your resupply. At that point you've already reduced overall carried weight (by simply eating your food) to the point where the weight saved by your lighter stove setup is moot,or at least it is to me... Even the SUL setups only reduce initial weight by 3oz or so in a best case scenario, i.e short trip.

Since I like to cook and not just heat water I just don't see any point in alcohol stoves for me, other than fuel availability and the fun of fiddling with them and trying to beat the system (done a bit of that...)

Now of you incorporate wood burning it could change the picture, haven't done any breakdowns on that.

Edited by drewjh on 03/24/2013 23:31:03 MDT.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Vargo Titanium on 03/24/2013 23:24:53 MDT Print View

I just got this, don't know why more people don't use it. I have yet to get out there with it, but after looking at all my options I haven't seen a salient argument against it. Unlimited fuel!
Vargo

Mark Fowler
(KramRelwof) - MLife

Locale: Namadgi
Re on 03/24/2013 23:40:54 MDT Print View

Having graduated over the years from petrol (Optimus then MSR) to metho (Trangia then lightweight MYOG setup) I have now settled on gas. The reasons are simplicity, ease of use, relatively light, use in tent vestibule and often usable due to fire restrictions. While I like the idea of wood burners, the last two reasons mean I am very unlikely to ever carry one.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Vargo Titanium on 03/25/2013 00:25:57 MDT Print View

"I just got this, don't know why more people don't use it. I have yet to get out there with it, but after looking at all my options I haven't seen a salient argument against it...."

Woodstoves are cool but...

When it's 0500, barely light outside, freezing cold and windy, I usually just want a f@cking cup of coffee without having to get all bushcrafty.

Casey Jones
(cjsbug) - F
Re: Re: Vargo Titanium on 03/25/2013 00:31:15 MDT Print View

"Woodstoves are cool but...

When it's 0500, barely light outside, freezing cold and windy, I usually just want a f@cking cup of coffee without having to get all bushcrafty."

If you could "like" a post on BPL, this would get mine.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/25/2013 01:28:29 MDT Print View

Canister stoves are hot and quick. I'm rarely at high altitudes or snow camping, so there are no issues. It's a two minute setup and water boiling in another 3. If you really cook rather than boil water, canisters are the only way to go. My stove and fuel canister fit in my cook pot, leaving nothing fragile to worry over and nothing to leak or spill. There's little or no soot to deal with either.

For a small group, a canister stove can crank out lots of hot water and each member can carry fuel without specialized containers.

I like Esbit for a really UL setup for an overnight or day hike to make soup or hot drinks. I can't spill that either!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Starting to doubt using my alcohol stove for canister on 03/25/2013 02:59:34 MDT Print View

> At what point do you guys think it's wise to switch to a canister stove?
I would suggest 'when you leave the front door' myself.
OK, I'm biased. But I have used a LOT of stoves of all sorts.

Cheers

Christopher *
(cfrey.0) - M

Locale: US East Coast
Re: Vargo Titanium on 03/25/2013 03:14:15 MDT Print View

Salient argument 1: "Fire ban" = west coast summer
Salient argument 2: Soot
Salient argument 3: (See "bushcrafty" above)

That should get you started.

Ike Jutkowitz
(Ike) - M

Locale: Central Michigan
Re: cannisters on 03/25/2013 04:04:25 MDT Print View

I'm with Jan. Alcohol, esbit, and wood give enough options without resorting to disposable canisters. As my wife commented on the Keurig craze, "Crapping up the planet one little cup at a time..."

Disclaimer: I produce garbage too. I recognize there are many happy canister users. This is just my rationale for never wanting to try one.

Edited by Ike on 03/25/2013 04:27:50 MDT.