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Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Winter sleep system on 03/21/2013 21:30:34 MDT Print View

I'm kind of having a hard tim really putting this together and I find myself switching between so many different options so I thought I'd post it and see what everyone else has to say about it. I mostly travel around northern colorado, so winter conditions are generally cold (sometimes into the negatives) and pretty dry. I want this system to be good down to -10 F. So heres what I currently have picked out:

-Katabatic gear Sawatch
-Katabatic Crestone hood
-Thermarest Solite (cut to 45'')
-1/8'' CCF pad used as insulation and groundsheet

clothing worn:
-goosefeet down booties
-smartwool socks
-cap 2 bottoms
-Montbell UL inner pants
-cap 2 top
-Montbell UL inner jacket
-Ice breaker 200g gloves and beanie

Ill be sleeping inside a Trailstar with this system, would a bivi be necessary?

Edited by butts0989 on 03/21/2013 21:31:58 MDT.

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
re: Winter/Shoulder season sleep system on 03/21/2013 22:38:35 MDT Print View

The only possible weak link could be the Ridge Rest SoLite, which has a listed R-value of 2.8. The CCF shouldn't add much to that. However, it's been a while since I've winter camped so take that with a grain of salt. On snow, maybe an R-value of around 3+ would be enough. In theory, I think I'd want more, so your system isn't fighting the heat loss to the ground. But again, in practice you might have different results.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Winter sleep system on 03/22/2013 05:09:33 MDT Print View

For those temps I would want at least r6 if not more, if you look on Expeds website they give temperature
Ratings and r values for each pad, its a handy way to figure out what you need.

Here There
(cowexnihilo) - MLife
Pads on 03/22/2013 07:27:10 MDT Print View

I agree with with above posters, the pad seems to be a weak link. Having enough pad for how you sleep and the conditions makes a huge difference, and personally I would want R5-R6 at those temperatures.

In the winter around 10F and below I make the switch to a full-length pad system because of the added downtime from the long nights.

-David

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Pads on 03/22/2013 07:50:00 MDT Print View

Has anyone had any experience with the thermarest Xtherm? It claims a pretty unbelievable r 5.7 and only comes in at 15 ounces. Seeing that there is no insulation inside makes me question its legitimacy...

Nick VanBurkleo
(EnvyBee) - F - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Pads on 03/22/2013 09:13:12 MDT Print View

If it's anything like the XLite, which it seems like it is, it probably sounds like you are sleeping on top of a million crumpled up Mylar balloons and potato chip bags. If you can deal with the noise, the R value is probably pretty accurate.

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Pads on 03/22/2013 21:12:11 MDT Print View

Ha thanks Nick, pretty valuable advice in my opinion, thats the reason I havent bought a neoair as well. So no more kookah bay? i just tried to check out their website and it was non existant...

Chris Bell
(Hobbit) - MLife

Locale: PA Wilds
Thermarest Neoair Xtherm on 03/24/2013 13:50:30 MDT Print View

I have used the Thermarest Neoair Xtherm this past winter with very good results. I took it to 0° F and found it to be very warm. The noise was not a factor for me. I am a side sleeper and often change from left to right side during the night. In practice the noise was slight and low level. Laying there and regular breathing etc did not cause any noise. The pad heats quickly and was quite comfortable. Now if you grab the thickness of the pad and squeeze it quickly over and over – yep it’s real loud and annoying. But I rarely do that when sleeping :)

Edited by Hobbit on 03/24/2013 13:52:06 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Thermarest Neoair Xtherm on 03/24/2013 13:58:31 MDT Print View

Agree with Chris. Noise is simply not a problem once it's inflated. I also toss and turn at night and I really don't notice the noise when I do. I had mine down to 15 degrees on snow (with just a cuben groundsheet below me) two nights ago and it was toasty. I'd recommend it.

Edited by idester on 03/24/2013 14:01:16 MDT.

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Thermarest Neoair Xtherm on 03/24/2013 18:11:07 MDT Print View

It looks like the Xtherm might be the way for me to go. Now who wants to sell me one...?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Thermarest Neoair Xtherm on 03/24/2013 18:13:22 MDT Print View

"It looks like the Xtherm might be the way for me to go. Now who wants to sell me one...?"

Cascade Designs?

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Thermarest Neoair Xtherm on 03/24/2013 18:16:16 MDT Print View

"Cascade Designs?"

Well money is a little tight, I just bought the quilt and a trailstar so im hesitant to buy anything else. If i found a good deal I would be more prone to buy one but i may just wait around until one comes along. I truly dont even need it until next winter.

Jan S
(karl-ton)
R values stack on 03/24/2013 18:31:50 MDT Print View

I'd also recommend the XTherm. Have one and it's nice.

If that is too expensive for now though: R values of foam pads can just be added. So if you add a thick foam pad to the Solite you should be able to get enough insulation. In Germany you can get thick Evazote matts (15 mm or more) almost everywhere for 30 €. They're a bit heavy and bulky in that thickness but cheap and warm and they don't break. At all. I think mec.ca has some. Not sure if they're available in the US though.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
winter pads on 03/25/2013 14:59:45 MDT Print View

I am not UL hiker in the winter so take this with a grain of salt.

I love my HUGE Exped down matt for the winter sleeping but I also bring my Zlite. Do I need the Z lite? no, but when your hanging out around camp in the snow it sure is nice to have a closed-cell foam pad you can plop anywhere in the snow and hang out, get a tan, take a nap, cook or what ever. Its a lot more work to do this with a pad you have to blow up. Also, depending on the pad, snow might not come off the material that easily.

As far as the Xtherm I have no outdoors first hand expierence. I blew it up in the store and laid on it. I found it to be noisy(I am a very light sleeper). Also when talking to the guy at REI he told me that he gets a lot of them back. He told me that they are pretty fragile in comparison to other pads.

Again take this info with a grain of salt I pull a pulk. So to an extent I dont really take weight into account.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: winter pads on 03/25/2013 15:37:47 MDT Print View

In deep winter I carry and Downmat UL 7 with a Ridgerest Solite, for this weekend just passed I carried a Symat UL7 with the Solite.

Chris Bell
(Hobbit) - MLife

Locale: PA Wilds
Symat UL7 with the Solite on 03/25/2013 18:08:29 MDT Print View

Stephen

Curious, did you have the Solite on the top or bottom of the Synmat UL7? What is your preference? I have a Synmat UL7 and might give this a try.

Thanks
Chris

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Symat UL7 with the Solite on 03/25/2013 18:16:05 MDT Print View

Hi Chris,

I used it with the foam underneath, I have added a few globs of seam sealer to each of the expeds and it keep the two together.

Cheers,

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Re: Symat UL7 with the Solite on 03/25/2013 18:39:41 MDT Print View

Ive been considering the downmat 7 but i just was a little turned off by the weight of it. Do you find the weight penalty worth it? Ive slept on one twice and i did really enjoy them.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Symat UL7 with the Solite on 03/25/2013 18:43:33 MDT Print View

From what I remember my regular Synmat is 460g and the Downmat is 560g.

If I was just going to have one it would be the Downmat.

Allen Butts
(butts0989) - F - MLife

Locale: Northern Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Symat UL7 with the Solite on 03/25/2013 20:23:19 MDT Print View

Ya i think that may be my choice. Its incredibly comfortable and i much prefer the fabric of the exped to the xtherm to sleep on seeing as I'm using a quilt.