Thanks, Roger. That is indeed good news. I think I'll experiment with it.

I guess I was lucky w/ the one DWR windshirt I sealed the seams on (a Marmot Ion).

Oh, the water resistance of eVENT would not be in question. But eVENT is quite air permeable ( it's reason for breathibility success is also a potential weakness)---wind can cut through. Some users have commented on this on this site. I don't know how much of a factor this is compared to some of the more permeable and lightest of the wind shells and pants.

Edited by kdesign on 04/26/2007 08:15:49 MDT.

Roger, I think I found the MacPac pants you have. Are they the Essence pants? I'm not sure if they are still made. The specs look great, 4.5 oz with leg zippers. Your experience with Epic fabric is very encouraging!

Jonathan, I forgot to ask in my last post to you, how have to found the performance of the leg zippers? Are they water resistant? Any problems getting the pants on and off? It is amazing how little information Wild Things has on their site about these pants.

Edited by ericnoble on 04/26/2007 09:59:00 MDT.

>>shortly after posting about the pants I went for a run in the rain and my legs started getting wet after 40 minutes. While the pants were not soaking through, the knees wetted out.

Jonathan, thanks for doing this test! This concerns me, but just a little. The worse I'll probably be doing in these is walking fast. I think running was a kind of worst case for the fabric. It's great to know it's limitations, of course. If this became an ongoing problem I would be tempted to coat the knees in some diluted silicon. With a roller or a squeegee and a suitable surface a decent job could probably be done. If this added too much weight it wouldn't be worth it. An Event pant would be better.

As an aside, do you typically wear your Houdini pants and if so how have they performed? I can always hope that Patagonia will make more or I'll get lucky and find a pair. According to Richard Nissley the Deluge DWR is very Epic like. My Houdini jacket is over 2 years old now and the DWR is still going strong.

Brett, I have the old Montbell UL Wind Jacket and that's part of why I'm not considering the pants. The weight is right but the durability is a concern and no leg zips.

I looked at the ID eVent Rain Pants and they are definitely tempting. There are great reviews at BackpackGearTest.org but they weight over 10.5 oz and the cost is high though secondary. If anyone knows of an Event pant at around 6 oz. and below, I'm certainly interested.

Here's my logic for not choosing a 100% solution (Event). Currently when it rains I just remove the legs on my convertible pants and let my legs get wet. I might add a layer to my core if I needed to compensate for cold legs. With the pants, I'll be wearing shorts and let my legs get wet until I feel I need the pants, or it will be cool enough that I'm already wearing them. This is why easy of donning with shoes is so important to me. With this approach I rarely need rain pants for any length of time. They don't need to work 24/7 because once in camp I can dry them out in my shelter and damp legs don't necessarily bother me. In the Colorado Rockies, where I usually roam, I'm thinking Event is overkill for the weight. In a location where it might rain for days on end, Event would be on my short list. I could be totally wrong and I'm open to other views. I'm also looking for something to keep water from running down my legs and into the Rocky's Gortex over socks I plan on buying.

Hey Eric,
the zippers have given me no problems but they are not water resistant (they are backed with fabric though). They climb all the way to my knee so they are very quick and simple to get on. St looks like you are searching for some solid rain protection and I am not sure these would be the pants for the job. I personally chose them for the simple fact that I quickly overheat in GTX or other knockoff fabrics and I do not mind trading alittle wetness to stay cool. I should also mention that I do not use these for overnight backcountry duty. Unless you live in a drier part of the country I would not want to be caught in a 36 degree sustained rain 10 miles from the trailhead with these things (classic spring weather in the mountains of NH and VT) . They are great for 4 season running and dayhikes.

On an average hike the Houdini jkt and pants never leave my pack except in the coldest conditions of winter. To keep weight down for LW rain bottoms I stick with my Houdini pants and wear a pair of Gossamer Gear SpinChaps over them. Along with my Pata Specter jkt which is cut rather long, I am good for any extended wet weather hiking. Granted the Specter and the SpinChaps are nowhere near as breathable as Epic, I tend to just slow my pace down to stay as dry as possible b/c hypothermia induced from either sweat or rain is no fun (been there done that last May).

One more thing, I agree that the Wild Things site is not very detail oriented, but the guys that work at that shop know their stuff and are always very informative over the phone and in person.

I've worn the Wild things pants for two seasons as wind and rain pants and love em. Durable, effective for wind, light rain. Like someone else said, you need to be aware that they will wet through quickly in sustained rain though. You won't get anywhere close to three hours of dryness from them, more like 30 min. My personal feeling though is that they don't feel that wet, and as long as I'm moving I'm good. And they dry quick just from a light breeze and/or body heat.

Another thing I like is that the leg zips go high enough to pull on over boots.

Edited by johnbrown2005 on 04/26/2007 12:49:55 MDT.

Jonathan, thanks so much for all your help! Sorry to pump you for more information but chaps are something else I've been considering. Any durability concerns with your SpinChaps? The Nano Chaps are on closeout and I've been considering those as well. I had hoped the Epic pants would do it all. I realize it's a lot to hope for but if I can carry fewer things that makes me happy too. Maybe one of the lighter options on my list and some chaps is the way to go.

I'm going to have to send a note to Patagonia encouraging them to bring back the Houdini pants.

I am very delicate with the Spinchaps so I have had no issues, but I would not do much off the trail in them. All in all they are a light weight end to the means. I expect nothing from them but to keep me dry in heavier rain. Note that unless you have a longer rain jkt you may not get the full coverage effect.

If you are looking for some real nice windpants, check out Wild Things superlight windpants. The material is much more breathable than the houdini's and they have the zippered ankles. To be honest, the weight is similar to the houdini's and the feature set is better all for a cheaper price. The only thing you are giving up would be durability (they are superthin) Just beware that you can see through the silver material. My girlfreind got a pair and was abit shocked the first time she wore them.

Yes they are the Essence Pants.

I want to offer a belated thanks to everyone who provided their help. I typically take a while deliberating buying decisions like this. I finally bought the Wild Things Epic Windpants. Having them be on sale help to grease the decision making process. They are now more like pants then wind pants, with the additional pockets and all. So I'm going to try using them that way rather than as windpants over shorts as I initially planned. I also purchased some extra fabric so I can modify the pants if I wish. I've considered making the legs zip off. They should arrive this Friday, in time for a short trip to Rocky Mountain National Park. I'll provide some feedback after I've had some time with them.

Thanks again for your help!

After a lot of brain racking, I've come to the conclusion that wind pants are not as practical as a wind shirt. I wear shorts in hot summer weather, convertibles in the shoulder seasons, and full length pants in winter. If I need more protection, I'm always carrying rain pants. As you found, the pants take a big beating from rocks, brush-- and sitting. If I were going for top performance and something like through hiking, running shorts and rain pants would be my leaning. I do like to wear silkweight long johns under rain pants for cold clammy weather-- keeps the cold fabric off your skin and less friction.

Edited by dwambaugh on 06/08/2007 07:48:57 MDT.

> There are also the Integral Designs Pertex Wind Pants (4.1 oz Large) you might want to consider. I don't have any experience with them.

I purchased a pair last year from Backcountrygear.com but returned them immediately because the fabric was thick and rubbery. The breathability was roughly the same as a Hefty Lawn and Leaf bag.

Instead I bought a pair of Montane Featherlite windpants which I highly recommend.

Collin, thanks for the feed back on the ID Pertex (Lawn Bag) pants. I'll make a note in my spreadsheet to avoid these.

Where did you find the Featherlite pants. I've been looking for a pair for a while.

Eric, once you get the pants, check out how they work by just rolling them up. I see that they have a knee length zipper, so rather than making shorts, you might be able to just roll them up. I've wanted a pair of hiking pants that roll up and have a tab like many button down shirts do on the sleeves to keep them rolled up. With all the fabric and motion, it may take two tabs to work neatly. This would add little weight and about a thousand times easier than cutting the legs and sewing zippers in. You won't lose the lower sections this way either.

> Where did you find the Featherlite pants. I've been looking for a pair for a while.

I think I also got the Featherlites from Backcountrygear. Unfortunately they seem to have wound down their Montane stock. As other threads have discussed there currently don't appear to be any Montane dealers left in the US. Prolitegear and Campsaver are two other dealers that appear to have wound down their Montane stock.

Dave Griffiths often has Montane items at good prices on eBay. I purchased a second Featherlite smock from him and can vouch that he's an upstanding seller. But I don't see any Featherlite pants right now from him. You could try contacting him to see if he expects to get any.

Or you could buy from a UK retailer.

Sorry to make a recommendation that's so hard to act on. :-(

BTW, I made one mod to my Featherlites. They came with an elastic shock cord at the waist. I replaced that with thin non-stretch nylon drawcord (from thru-hiker.com) as I find non-stretch much more comfortable.

Edited by ckelley on 06/08/2007 08:15:06 MDT.