Companion forum thread to:

Spring Snow Trekking Gear List

Interesting, especially in the few clothing pieces vs. the multilayered clothing lists seen in other publications; still think most prefer having an above snow shelter system for more enjoyment in our limiting (those perfect pictures of tents wrapped in Christmas tree lights in Outside and Backpacker magazines), though knowledge on the trenches and caves could come in handy.

Snow structures are quieter and warmer than a tent. They are less prone to dripping condensation (make sure you're roof is well done!). A snow trench covered with branches or a tarp then snow is as easy a structure as you can make. Well worth the effort to learn.

Thanks, Ryan, for an insightful gear list. I've yet to build a snow shelter, though it's in my bucket list...I just use my Gatewood cape, and I do bring a stove, so my weight would be a couple of pounds more than yours.

I really liked the idea of your cuban mitts. Hows about a MYOG article on those! And how does that kind of fabric wear doing work such as digging, poling, etc.?

Happy Trails!

Thanks for the list. For those of us, who have not tried a similar gear list out, could you explain how you use this system? Specifically what you would wear for several different conditions.

When I look at it I wonder about the following omissions:

No windshirt?
What do you wear, when it's say, 20F (-7C) and windy while you are hiking? The Grid fleece top won't be warm enough, as the wind will blow right through it, yet wearing the WPB shell seems like a condensation nightmare.
In winter getting your layers damp is a bigger issue than in summer, yet the chance of condensation is higher.


No shell pants?
What do you wear on your legs when it's raining, windy, or even just wet snow?

No sleep socks?
Cold weather, damp snow, GTX boots, your socks must be very damp by the end of day, what do you wear on your feet at night?

Edited by Tjaard on 03/16/2013 09:26:46 MDT.

Is there a US supplier for the Brynje shirt?

I'm not Ryan, but this is what we do.

> What do you wear, when it's say, 20F (-7C) and windy while you are hiking?
Light fleece over light thermals, and a UL EPIC jacket over that. Zip down the front may be part open. And my head is well insulated!

> What do you wear on your legs when it's raining, windy, or even just wet snow?
Light fleece XC ski trousers from Italy. Nothing else until it gets really bad. Old GoLite Whims overtrousers as a last resort. (Breathable, not waterproof)

> what do you wear on your feet at night?
A pair of very fluffy thick socks which have never seen the inside of shoes. They stay fluffy.

Cheers

Sure Roger. But we want to know how Ryan makes it work with just the items listed.

Edited by kthompson on 03/14/2013 06:38:30 MDT.

I have noticed once it is nice and cold (ie20F) its pretty easy to not overheat when hiking by adjusting what is on my head and jacket zipper (wbp not windshirt).

+100 on Tjaard's request for how to use the system. Gear plustechnique is what makes UL gear work well.

+1 on Tjaard's comments on windshirt (especially if it is hooded) vs WPB shell. Even if you still need the WPB for some other reason a breathable shell large enough to accommodate a couple layers is more than worth its 3oz weight. Normally pays at least part of its way in weight by allowing lighter insulation.

re:sleep socks ... VB socks and a light overboot (as in Will R's articles on light wt winter footwear) go a very long way towards keeping trail socks dry. I don't know how that would work for skiing though, my experience is with snowshoes.

I've got a sweet vintage popcorn pot with two wire catches to hold the lid on. Do you have any pictures of your contraption? Mine's so light I haven't even weighed it. Holds about a gallon.

Jim,
Vb and over boots are a viable system and work well with ski boots too, although you can usually leave the over boots off for skiing since ski boots tend to be more insulated. (Except in extreme cold).
But if I read correctly, Ryan was only using GTX shoes, regular gaiters and one set of very thick socks. I was wondering how that works out.

Edited by Tjaard on 03/16/2013 09:32:42 MDT.

Don't you hate ice cold wet feet? Left my Gore tex socks home last weekend. Big mistake with 6" of snow on the ground.

...very inspiring. Thank you so much!

Vb and over boots are a viable system and work well with ski boots too, although you can usually leave the over boots off for skiing since ski boots tend to be more insulated. (Except in extreme cold).
But if I read correctly, Ryan was only using GTX shoes, regular gaiters and one set of very thick socks. I was wondering how that works out.

My experience is short enough that I'm making no guarantees ... here's my conclusions to date.

1) higher top GTX shoes provide wider shoe/gaiter overlap than low top ... better at keeping snow that gets under the bottom of the gaiter from creeping over the top of the shoe
2) shoes with meshy outers get snow imbedded in the surface but still outside of the GTX
3) with higher exertion levels some of that imbedded snow melts ... frozen boots the next day
4) deep unconsolidated snow amplifies the effect of 2) and 3) because even with snowshoes my feet are submerged in snow all day (30 inches deep over a previously broken trail)
5) waterproof uninsulated overboots (MYOG at this point) seem to mitigate 2) and 3) by providing a barrier that separates boot from snow
6) until I get more experience, I'm bringing dedicate sleeping socks:-)

Lastly, 30 inches of unconsolidated snow means 1/2 MPH travel speed on snowshoes unless you are with a large group and switch leaders very frequently.

Edited by jcolten on 03/19/2013 22:06:44 MDT.