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Randy Brissey
(rbrissey) - M

Locale: Redondo Beach, CA
Fire Maple FMS-300T Stove on 03/23/2013 11:13:49 MDT Print View

Hello,

After reading about this little stove I searched for it and found it on eBay.......and bought one. The stove is incredibly small and light. Anyone wanting to get one.... a word of warning. Mine came to me in an "unprotected" condition. The seller (to save money on shipping from Hong Kong) took the stove out of the box and tossed the flattened box and contents into a bubble envelope.
The stove works properly but has suffered some damage from being at the "bottom of a pile".

Maybe I should have relied on a stateside dealer instead of eBay.

I am waiting for a reply from the dealer.

Randy B

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Which stove for me Roger? on 03/24/2013 16:47:18 MDT Print View

Hi Roger,

I "need" a new stove (a little sick of using the Pocket Rocket in the snow). Assuming I want to buy for the upcoming Australian season, should I go ahead and purchase a

Primus Omnilite TI?

Or is there something more compelling I should consider?

Realistically I would only use the stove with gas canister, but the flexibility of using other fuels appeals too. The Fire Maple 118t has reports of spluttering even when at stable operating temperature and I don't want to muck around with it to improve it.

Is there a lighter better option than the omnilite available do you think?

Cheers
Stuart

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Which stove for me Roger? on 03/24/2013 19:27:55 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart

The Omnilite weighs a TON. And would you ever go back to petrol???? Dinosaur technology, with fireballs.

For now, either the FMS-118T or the Kovea Spider. (I have both.) The reports of sputtering were probably a feature of the user, not the stove. Learn how to strip the stove down and clean it at home. See our article on Stove Maintenance for more info.

Cheers

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Kovea vs Fire Maple on 03/24/2013 19:43:21 MDT Print View

FMS-118T vs the Kovea Spider

Thanks Roger,

I will investigate those two more thoroughly. Is your upcoming article likely to be of further assistance to me in this regard or should I go ahead and buy one of these?

Update: Just looked at the weights. The Omnilite Ti is only 220 or 240g (in gas canister mode) versus about 180 for the Spider. I gather gas stoves (even inverted canisters ones) are not that great below -10 deg C (not an issue in Australia), so maybe the multifuel option is worth the extra 40-60g (hard to know how often I'd need it... so far never).

What do people think of the 3 proposed alternatives?

Actually I'm deciding between the Spide and the Omnilite I think

Stuart

Edited by stu_m on 03/24/2013 22:51:57 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Kovea vs Fire Maple on 03/25/2013 03:07:06 MDT Print View

> Is your upcoming article likely to be of further assistance to me in this regard
Um.
I hope it might be.
Further than that I cannot say at this stage.

> or should I go ahead and buy one of these?
What's your timeline? If you need something in the next month or two, then I suggest buying one of these.

Cheers

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re Kovea vs Fire Maple on 03/25/2013 05:58:37 MDT Print View

I want it for the start of the ski season.... so landed in Aus by June. To wait or not to wait... that is the question.

PS: Of those two stoves I've narrowed it down to the Kovea.

Cheers
Stuart

Edited by stu_m on 03/25/2013 05:59:58 MDT.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re: Re Kovea vs Fire Maple on 03/25/2013 16:56:34 MDT Print View

I've ordered the Kovea since it takes up to 30-40 days to arrive (roll-eyes).

Thanks for your help Roger :)

Stuart

Tyler Green
(tyler2you)
Kovea Spider Shipping Time on 03/25/2013 19:43:51 MDT Print View

I ordered my Kovea Spider from ebay seller alfresco_gear on 17 March fully expecting to wait a month or more for it to arrive from HK. Much to my surprise, it was sitting in my mail box today (25 March). The box was a little worse for the wear, but the stove was perfect. Fired it up and I'm very pleased. Also ordered the FMS-300T, but no sign of it yet.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re Kovea Spider Shipping Time on 03/25/2013 20:49:01 MDT Print View

I ordered from ebay seller chovin.

Can't even find specific Australian shipping time info now, but have a vague recollection I read 30-60 days somewhere. That may have been for a random unrelated seller.

In any case, I'll plan for that and then there's definitely some room to be pleasantly surprised.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
KOVEA PURCHASE on 03/26/2013 02:43:15 MDT Print View

If you are looking to purchase a Kovea Spider (KB-1109) Remote Canister Stove give Jinny a call at KOVEA and I believe she can facilitate you purchasing one within a week.

Jinny Min-
Price Zone dba
Kovea USA
213-747-0099
jinny@koveausa.com

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: KOVEA PURCHASE on 03/26/2013 09:32:15 MDT Print View

A 213 area code? Interesting. That's here in Los Angeles where I am. "Hmm," said Jim. :)

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Error in article - corrected on 03/28/2013 01:21:08 MDT Print View

Hi all

I stated in the article that I thought that the Primus stoves were also made in Asia. However, the CEO of Primus has contacted us to let us know that:

'all Primus backpacking stoves except one is made in our own factory in Tartu, Estonia. This has been the case ever since production was moved there from Hagfors, Sweden in 1996.
Between 2004 and August 2009 Primus did supply Jetboil with burners. However, these products were made in our factory in Estonia and not in Asia as stated in the article.'

My mistake. The article has been corrected, and my apologies to Primus. Good to see that one of the Western companies is still making their own stoves.

Cheers
PS: I wonder whether I will get further corrections? Ah well, we'll see.

Edited by rcaffin on 03/28/2013 01:21:35 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Fire Maple from China via ebay on 03/28/2013 12:58:08 MDT Print View

Ordered a Fire Maple 300t from travelboundless@yahoo.com.cn a day or two after this article came out. How can I resist a lighter stove???!!!

After warning me that I wouldn't see it until mid-April, it arrived this morning, in the original box, heavily wrapped in two different bubble wrap materials and a tough outer material.

The stove inside was in perfect shape.

Just sayin'.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Piezo on these stoves? on 03/29/2013 09:51:21 MDT Print View

Roger Caffin wrote: > I have serious reservations about hanging windscreens from the pot. I can't help thinking that the exhaust gases are going to be a bit choked, which may lead to more CO production.
It might, which is perhaps a good subject for testing, but would it matter? If I cook outside, the CO will dissipate. If I cook in the vestibule, then I won't need the windscreen, yes?

Roger Caffin wrote: > Also, thinking about the typical piezo ignitor, I would have thought that if you can get your hand to the piezo button on the column of the stove, you could equally get a Bic lighter in there.
Actually, it can be a lot easier to get to the button on a stove mounted piezo ignition. The button is typically mounted well below the burner head. With a lighter, I have to get above the burner head.

I'm not a big advocate of piezo ignitions, but they're definitely very convenient for suspended windscreens. If someone were wanting to use a suspended windscreen, I would think the Soto Microregulator would be a very strong contender. The Soto MR is a good stove despite all the silliness that it's going to somehow defy the laws of physics and work well when there's no pressure in the canister.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 03/29/2013 10:59:38 MDT.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Kovea Spider - arrived on 04/10/2013 08:06:06 MDT Print View

... and it's a really nice little stove too

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Kovea Spider - arrived on 04/10/2013 09:51:57 MDT Print View

It is, isn't it? The build quality on mine is very good, and there's a certain economy of form that, well, just makes sense. It's been my "go to" stove for non-solo hikes since I got it.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Mark Fowler
(KramRelwof) - MLife

Locale: Namadgi
Re; on 04/13/2013 23:31:17 MDT Print View

The interesting thing about the 300T Wasp (that's what is on the box) is the distance between the top of the burner head and the base of the pot. On most of the stoves I have that distance is about 10 to 20mm.
FMS-116T (Gnat) is 10cm but with a wide burner head.
Kovea Spider is 15-20mm depending on the pot diameter with a much narrower head.
300T (Wasp) is 23mm and a narrow head.
MSR Superfly 12 - 18mm depending on the pot diameter, Super wide head.
FMS-117/8 is 14mm same burner head as the FMS-116T.

I have no explanation but it does seem that the distance between the the top of the burner head and the bottom of the pot varies quite a bit with smaller burner head stoves having a larger separation.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re; on 04/14/2013 02:51:47 MDT Print View

> it does seem that the distance between the the top of the burner head and the bottom
> of the pot varies quite a bit with smaller burner head stoves having a larger
> separation.
Yep. Think about getting the extra oxygen you need for full combustion into the flame. It's a bit easier with the wide burners.

Cheers

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Carbon Monoxide vs Burner Clearance on 04/18/2013 16:15:08 MDT Print View

The relationship between carbon monoxide output vs. burner clearance is an interesting one. Generally, more clearance means less carbon monoxide, but not always. As Roger points out, a wider burner head is easier to get the oxygen mix right giving less carbon monoxide.

But what of the Optimus Crux vs. the Monatauk Gnat? They have nearly identical burner heads (at least outwardly), but the Crux has relatively high CO whereas the Gnat has much lower. Why is this?

Roger would be better qualified than I to comment, but changing the porting can inject more oxygen to the burn, and adding a fine wire mesh to the inside burner head can conduct heat to the fuel. The hotter fuel achieves a more complete burn, giving off less CO. The mesh may also cause greater turbulence which will cause greater fuel-air mixing.

I notice that the Kovea Spider has such a mesh in it's burner head (shown here with a Supalite which has essentially the same burner head).


Notice also that it's flames are emitted from the sides of the burner head, giving them, in effect, greater clearance.


HJ
Adventures In Stoving

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Carbon Monoxide vs Burner Clearerance on 04/18/2013 17:01:43 MDT Print View

"The relationship between carbon monoxide output vs. burner clearance is an interesting one. Generally, more clearance means less carbon monoxide, but not always. As Roger points out, a wider burner head is easier to get the oxygen mix right giving less carbon monoxide."

Well, generally, CO is generated from reburning CO2. Either because there is too much fuel in the mixture (or not enough air, same thing really) with you refer to or because there are unacceptably high CO2 levels being reburned, ie, not enough circulation of CO2 out of the heated zone of combustion.

In your picture, you can easily see the perfect flame with three distinctly different zones of heat within each flame. The first is fairly well mixed, but uncombusted fuel/air. The second is the hottest part and the bright blue, nearly white flame there also indicates where the hottest portion of the flame is. Leftover combustion occurs later in the flame and is broader and bluer, giving the flame its charateristic color as energey(heat) disipates. Once you mix and burn all this, the distance to the pot may allow CO2, a normal byproduct, to be reburned producing CO. Wider is not always better if you also trap and reburn the CO2. According to your picture, the pot should be lowered a bit for best heating. The flame has already started cooling by the time it interacts with the pot bottom. At the same time it is producing a minimum of CO because the circulation is good. Not so much that you need additional oxygen to insure clean burning. Rather the CO2 is flushed away before it can be reburned. Fuel/air mix should be controlled more by the jet and air intake, if I remember a seventh grade science lab correctly.

I have said before that the intake vents, usually just holes, should be adjustable to maximize heat at altitude and valve setting. Generally, this is ignored, though, because at best, it will only save 2-4% on fuel...barely noticable. But, if incorrectly adjusted, could cost as much as 10-15%, maybe more if badly out of whack...