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Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/12/2013 16:26:24 MDT Print View

If you've watched my postings lately, you'll know that I've attempted to "bust" a couple of myths surrounding the Soto MicroRegulator stove (OD-1R): 1) the myth that somehow the MicroRegulator will be able to extract more fuel from a canister of gas than other stoves and 2) the myth that somehow the MicroRegulator will be able to function better in cold weather than other upright canister stoves.

But what of the stove itself? Is it any good?


And it's the world's lightest with auto-ignition? How did they manage that?


And most importantly of all, will it cook my breakfast?!


Please join me as I take a look at The Soto Microregulator (OD-1R)



HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/12/2013 17:14:09 MDT Print View

Jim, I see from your review comments that you also have the Soto windscreen. Any tests planned for that? I am always vexed by DIY windscreen challenge for my Gigapower and Gnat. Nothing I make ends up simple, effective, lightweight, and durable, pick two.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/12/2013 18:18:02 MDT Print View

Hi, Rick,

The little Soto "windscreen" is a lot nicer in that it's light and compact compared to its Snow Peak counterpart, and it can certainly do no harm. It will reflect heat upward, and it will offer a modicum of wind protection. A modicum. But will it really give you good wind protection? Not in my estimation. I think you need something more than that.

What I generally use with upright canister stoves is something like this:

which is made up of tripled or quadrupled household Al foil. It works although I have to brace it with rocks in more significant winds. The "trick" of course is that you have to frequently check with your hand the temperature of the canister. If the canister feels hot to the touch, you have to do something to prevent the canister from heating further.

When not in use, I keep it wrapped around my water bottle and then placed in a plastic bag. It's proved to be a lot more durable than I thought. It does need replacement fairly frequently, but it's held up for a week without a problem. A better solution is tooling foil from a craft store which is more durable than household foil.

I've got an article on my blog which has a lot of ideas about windscreens if you're interested.

Really windy days? I take a remote canister stove and use a full 360 degree windscreen.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Lightest on 03/12/2013 18:55:57 MDT Print View

Jim,
If you are going to do a world's lightest post, it would be good to start out with the weight.

todd harper
(funnymoney) - MLife

Locale: Sunshine State
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/12/2013 19:26:22 MDT Print View

Samuel,
The weight is in the review.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Lightest on 03/12/2013 19:38:51 MDT Print View

If you are going to do a world's lightest post, it would be good to start out with the weight.

No problem (but it is in the review). :) Soto says 73g. My scale at home says 70g. In other words, 2.5 oz. The weight penalty for having auto ignition is zero when compared to a lot of upright canister stoves, but when compared to something like a Monatauk Gnat (FMS-116t), then it's roughly 3/4 ounce.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Paul Mason
(dextersp1) - F
Colorado on 03/12/2013 19:49:14 MDT Print View

Jim,
I'm in Colorado now hiking some 14ers.

I'm using the Soto, soto wind screen and Jet Boil fuel.

I'm not timing boil times but it is working fine. So far I've been stopping about 12,000 feet for either hot chocolate or freeze dried eggs. I tried freeze dried chili macaroni but sitting around for 13-15 minutes is too long.

The ignitor worked at 12,000 feet once but I'm using a Bic lighter now because I don't want to risk breaking the ignitor.

Look like you will need to test the new one.

http://www.campsaver.com/od-1rx-micro-regulator-stove

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Colorado on 03/12/2013 20:01:14 MDT Print View

If you're getting your piezo to work at 12,000 feet, that's pretty good.

Look like you will need to test the new one.
http://www.campsaver.com/od-1rx-micro-regulator-stove

That link looks like something of a placeholder. The photo is the OD-1R not the OD-1RX.

The OD-1RX has two sets of detachable pot supports, one for larger pots, one for smaller. I'm not sure how I feel about that although I'm all in favor of greater pot stability. I'll have to see it. They've also changed the burner head so that it is concave instead of convex. It's supposed to help with wind resistance. They're calling it the Wind Master.



Looks interesting.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Colorado on 03/13/2013 09:50:46 MDT Print View

Judging by this diagram, it appears that the thinking is that the shape of the burner will cause a lot of the wind to flow under the burner head.

Interesting. But I do notice that the sides are of course still open. They've also decreased the pot height above the burner head which could lead to more CO production if they didn't do something to compensate.

I'd like to do some field testing with it.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Paul Mason
(dextersp1) - F
Re: Re: Colorado on 03/13/2013 10:09:41 MDT Print View

Jim,
Thanks for posting that. I searched and went to the Soto homepage but didn't see any info on the new stove.

I like the head design. The pot supports still look flimsy to me. I guess they fold somehow. I wouldn't like it if, they need to be folded and stored off the stove - one more thing to lose. And, in the cold I wear fleece gloves; I don't want to be handling small things.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: New Soto OD-1RX on 03/13/2013 11:11:49 MDT Print View

Paul,

I haven't seen an OD-1RX in person yet, but just judging from a video I saw (which I'll post a link if I can find it again), it looks like the larger pot supports can be left in place and folded up over the burner head. The smaller pot supports can't fold up (while on the stove) from what I can see. In travel mode, I might just leave the larger pot supports in place and fold them rather than take them on and off although the larger supports look pretty easy on and off. The smaller pot supports look like they have to be fiddled with a bit to get them secured to the stove -- not a good thing with cold hands. The smaller pot supports look like they'd be targeted toward minimalists who want to cook with small mug type pots.

The current pot supports aren't so bad. No worse in terms of "floppiness" than on something like a FMS-116t. It seems like a bit of a gamble for Soto to try something like two interchangeable pot supports. I must admit that I'm now danged curious about the stove.

Looks like the weight is up slightly (I see 2.6oz quoted instead of 2.5oz) and the price is quoted as $75.00.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/13/2013 16:43:21 MDT Print View

Here's the video link. Pot supports that you take off to pack the stove. Interesting.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Paul Mason
(dextersp1) - F
Thanks for the video on 03/13/2013 18:06:01 MDT Print View

Jim,
Thanks for the video. I'm happy with the current model and wind screen set up. But, I would be interested in your review.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Thanks for the video on 03/13/2013 18:58:28 MDT Print View

I'd like to review one. I'm always interested when I see a stove company trying something a little different. I'm sure the detachable/interchangeable supports will work in the technical sense. I'm not sure if they'll work in the market place. The wind resistance remains to be seen as well.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Colorado on 03/13/2013 19:07:37 MDT Print View

"The ignitor worked at 12,000 feet once but I'm using a Bic lighter now because I don't want to risk breaking the ignitor"

Are you saying piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet?

I wonder why it doesn't work there and what fails.

That would include piezo-electric lighters - I have heard they don't work above 10,000 feet.

I hate the old BIC flint and steel lighters because they don't work if it gets wet.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/13/2013 20:52:05 MDT Print View

I've had piezoelectric lighters fail as low as 7500'/2280m in cold windy weather. I forget the technical explanation but it's something about the density of the air being too low to transmit enough energy to bring the gas to ignition.

Speaking from just what I've encountered, hand held piezoelectric butane lighters tend to fail at lower altitude's than the piezo on a stove -- assuming both are in working order. Piezos fail of course for reasons other than altitude. I assume this is due to the volume of the gas put out by a stove vs. a lighter.

I don't think it hurts a piezo to try it at higher elevations; it just doesn't work, that's all.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 03/13/2013 21:51:30 MDT.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/13/2013 21:33:00 MDT Print View

Hikin' Jim sez:
"Speaking from just what I've encountered, hand held butane lighters tend to fail at lower altitude's than the piezo on a stove -- assuming both are in working order".

Now that's interesting. I've never had a butane lighter fail, other than due to cold. And the cold is not really failure, and easily defeated - put the thing in your pocket for a few minutes. But altitude up to 14.5K,no problem. What sort of failure did you experience with a lighter?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/13/2013 21:40:52 MDT Print View

Do you mean a Piezo-Electric Butane lighter works at 14.5K? Or an old style lighter with a steel wheel and piece of flint?

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/13/2013 21:47:23 MDT Print View

Sorry, I should be more specific:
"Speaking from just what I've encountered, hand held piezoelectric butane lighters tend to fail at lower altitude's than the piezo on a stove -- assuming both are in working order".

Bics work fine.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/13/2013 21:52:50 MDT Print View

I think Bic makes a piezoelectric butane lighter : )

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/14/2013 03:22:37 MDT Print View

> I've had piezoelectric lighters fail as low as 7500'/2280m in cold windy weather.
> I forget the technical explanation but it's something about the density of the air
> being too low to transmit enough energy to bring the gas to ignition.
The energy in the spark from a piezo is barely adequate to ignite the fuel/air mix even at sea level. More energy is needed at altitude to light the gas, for techie reasons.

But a Bic flint lighter seems to always work for me.

Cheers

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/14/2013 07:08:22 MDT Print View

> More energy is needed at altitude to light the gas, for techie reasons.

Butane lighters have a jet, just like a stove. At altitude the air is much less dense, so the air/fuel ratio is not the same as at sea level. As the chart below shows, once the air/fuel ratio strays from the optimum MUCH more energy is required to ignite the mixture, more energy than is provided by the spark from a piezo. A hot chip of ferrocerium may provide more energy.

Ignition Energy

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Piezo-electric lighters don't work at 12,000 feet? on 03/14/2013 10:15:49 MDT Print View

Stuart,

Thank you for that. I think you've put up that diagram before, but I wasn't remembering the explanation last night.

It's not that the thinner air can't transmit the spark; it's that the thinner air changes the fuel/air mix and the spark is then insufficient to ignite the mix. Got it, and thank you.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/14/2013 12:31:51 MDT Print View

One of the things that should not be missed here is the advantage that an integrated ignition brings when using a suspended windscreen, something like this:

(this is a windscreen photo from another thread here at BPL.)

It it can be hard to reach in with a lighter, and you might knock the windscreen out of alignment. I really like being able to have everything set up, pot in place, and then I just push the button to get the stove going. I found that very convenient, not to mention efficient: The time from ignition to the time you get the pot in place is wasted fuel. With an ignition, my pot is in place from the beginning.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 01:22:18 MDT Print View

Don't know if this has been posted before but I saw this pic in the 2012 SOTO Japan catalog. It is a cutaway of the micro regulator valve.


SOTO MR VALVE

Typical needle valve for comparison .

Needle Valve

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 09:40:12 MDT Print View

Very interesting. Thank you for that, Rick.

And, to my mind, all the more reason to doubt that there's any "magic" in one means of holding back the gas vs. another (in terms of cold weather performance). That's really all a valve of either type does: It holds back the gas. The Lindal valve in a canister of gas is essentially just a very sophisticated hole in the canister. The stove with it's valve plugs into the hole. Absent a valve, the gas would rush out uncontrolled. All the valve does is hold back the gas. Open up the valve, and the gas rushes out to the degree that there is pressure in the canister. The valve is a means of restriction only. The valve can hold back what pressure there is; it cannot create pressure.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 11:23:15 MDT Print View

Thank you Rick. It's easy to understand why the Soto has the ability to regulate the low pressure during cold weather. The typycal needle valve will let the fuel "gush" out with 1/2 turn of the valve. It does not have the precise control over the low pressure.

If I recall, the Soto has 6 turns of the handle for full open. Now that's a lot of control. And that's the "magic" of the Soto.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 15:01:04 MDT Print View

> the Soto has 6 turns of the handle for full open.
That is entirely a function of the angle of the needle valve. Many stoves are designed to only need a 1/4 turn. Some of the recent Asian stoves need several turns to get full power. There's no magic, just what marketing thinks the user would prefer. Me, I prefer a couple of turns.

Cheers

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 16:27:50 MDT Print View

BTW, there was another interesting "feature" example shown in the catalog where they have side-by-side pics of a common needle valve stove "accidently" tipped over on its side engulfed in a fireball and the Soto Micro Regulator stove tipped over but still burning normally. The caption read the Micro Regulator makes the stove a little safer in case of accident by controlling the release of the liquid fuel. The footnote to the caption seems to say it just buys you some time to get the stove turned off safely before it too succumbs.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 16:52:23 MDT Print View

the Micro Regulator makes the stove a little safer in case of accident by controlling the release of the liquid fuel.
Hmm. Not sure I'd want to experiment with that!

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/28/2013 19:39:02 MDT Print View

Roger, this regulator is not your run-o-the mill needle valve type. It has the ability to micro manage your fuel at low pressure allowing better efficiency in cold weather.

Take another look at this beauty:

 photo 1c86fa85-546e-469a-a03d-40053f92b333_zps1ac769ed.jpg

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 01:14:01 MDT Print View

Hi Dan

You might like to read our article about pressure regulators. It was published some time ago.

Basically, that pressure regulator IS a needle valve, with some extra springs etc. All the magic properties ascribed to it are total BS, made up by the spin doctors to get you to hand over your wallet. Some of the claims are absurd; the rest are either stupid, irrelevant, or false.

I will add that the worst claims seem to have come from the distributors, not the SOTO company.

As far as efficiency goes - that is a function of the pot diameter and the user. Turn the stove up full bore and you get low efficiency. Old news.

Cheers
Roger Caffin (PhD, physics)

Edited by rcaffin on 03/29/2013 01:15:31 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 04:03:44 MDT Print View

"Basically, that pressure regulator IS a needle valve, with some extra springs etc. All the magic properties ascribed to it are total BS, made up by the spin doctors to get you to hand over your wallet. Some of the claims are absurd; the rest are either stupid, irrelevant, or false."

Isn't that truth!?

More stuff in that assembly to break or wear out.

I see a lot of gear/equipment/technology that is marketing-driven these days. KISS.

- Nick Gatel (PHD in Experience)

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 08:35:07 MDT Print View

Thank you roger. That says a lot.

Edited by zelph on 03/29/2013 11:03:04 MDT.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 09:32:21 MDT Print View

this regulator is not your run-o-the mill needle valve type. It has the ability to micro manage your fuel at low pressure allowing better efficiency in cold weather.
Actually, a regulator valve doesn't manage flow, at least not in the sense of say the way you could have a computer managed environmental control system in an office complex. The regulator valve is set by the user. The valve then just tries to maintain a constant flow. If the user sets the valve on high, then the results are constantly inefficient. :)

In other words, there is no optimization routine built into the valve. What you set is what you get -- so long as there is sufficient pressure in the canister to support that setting.

Soto hasn't made any claims that the valve will allow greater efficiency. There has been much bally-hoo that the stove is more effective, i.e. that the Soto MicroRegulator will be able to function well at colder temperatures than conventional needle valved stoves, but no one has claimed that the Soto MR is more efficient (uses less gas to get the same job done).

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 03/29/2013 09:40:36 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 10:30:34 MDT Print View

It seems like the stove has little to do with efficiency - it just lets out fuel. Maybe if there was too much or little air or the burner could cause incomplete burning.

The windscreen, pot, heat exchanger,... are what effect efficiency.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 10:51:09 MDT Print View

With canister stoves, that's pretty much true. Typically, how you use it has a lot more to do with efficiency than the stove itself (unless the stove is just utter junk). One of the most important things is the valve, but not needle versus regulator: Use it to turn the stove down. :)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

The basics of fuel efficiency:
-Turn it down (use a lower flame)
-Use a windscreen (not a full 360 degree one with an upright stove though)
-Use a lid

Pot selection is also important. Wider is better. A heat exchanger pot is of course great, but heat exchangers do add weight. Supposedly darker colored pots add efficiency too, but compared to the other factors, I'm not sure that pot color is as much of a concern.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 13:09:47 MDT Print View

That makes sense that turning it down improves efficiency

I wonder at what point it's too low? It's constantly loosing heat, so the longer you take to boil, the more heat you're losing.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 14:56:15 MDT Print View

It's a regulator of beauty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ66oRH7cBA&feature=youtu.be

I believe everything SOTO says about it being more efficient. I suspect they have engineers with PhD's in just about everything. They sure do make great products.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 15:05:22 MDT Print View

Yeah, we have all seen that video. A masterpiece of spin doctoring and carefully designed BS. I could create exactly the same video effects myself with two identical stoves.

But everyone is free to believe what they want. It's a free world.

Cheers

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 15:05:39 MDT Print View

I wonder at what point it's too low? It's constantly loosing heat, so the longer you take to boil, the more heat you're losing.
Yeah, if you turn it down ultra low, you'll loose more heat to the environment than you're adding to the system, and your pot will never boil. If you've picked a sheltered site and you're using some kind of windscreen, you should be able to go fairly low. I think for most people the real issue will be more one of patience. Will people really put up with a 15 minute boil time when they could have a 5 minute boil time? Still, it's worth experimenting with and finding a happy medium that works for you. Of course in colder or windier conditions, you may have to turn things up a bit in order to keep boil times more reasonable.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 15:27:19 MDT Print View

Jan S
(karl-ton)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/29/2013 15:39:18 MDT Print View

"I could create exactly the same video effects myself with two identical stoves."

Let me guess: Using different gas mixtures? Provided you don't just turn one stove down by hand.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/30/2013 12:10:50 MDT Print View

It's all about pressure. Set up a situation where the pressure is quite high in the beginning but much lower (but still sufficient) toward the end, and the MicroRegulator will come out looking like a champ.

The only problem of course is that those aren't real conditions. Out in cold weather, your pressure starts low and only gets lower. When there is insufficient pressure, I don't care what kind of valve you put on a stove, you're not going to get good performance. Period.

For those who may doubt that such is true, I invite you to look at my post, Advantages (?) of Regulator Valved Stoves, Part II. Take a look at the second video on that post where I compare a needle valved stove to the MicroRegulator. It's taken at the end of a burn. Both canisters are cold, neither one has pressure, and neither stove has good performance.

Again, the MicroRegulator is a fine stove (see my review). If I were going to use a windscreen suspended from a pot, the Soto MicroRegulator would be my first choice for the stove to use with that kind of set up. But as for a cold weather advantage in actual field conditions? No.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/30/2013 12:25:54 MDT Print View

When I first turn on a conventional canister stove, I'll turn it up to a reasonable level.

Then, after a minute or so, due to evaporative cooling inside the canister, the pressure will drop, and the stove will go down to a low level.

It's gradual, so usually I don't notice it until it's way low, then I'll turn it up back to a reasonable level.

This is especially true when it's cold and/or there is less fuel in the canister.

With the regulator, I don't think this would happen.

So, there is some utility to the regulator. It's kind of annoying when I notice the flame level has gone down and it's taking forever to heat up.

But, it's not annoying enough for me to worry about it much. And the Soto people don't talk about this.

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Efficiency?!? on 03/30/2013 12:55:17 MDT Print View

The Soto demonstration did nothing to demonstrate efficiency. As the canister cools you do not need to adjust the Soto, but you do need to adjust the non-regulated stove. That is the advantage of the regulator, and it is the ONLY advantage. In that video they could have simply turned the other stove up to match the Soto.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Efficiency?!? on 03/30/2013 13:41:08 MDT Print View

The Soto demonstration did nothing to demonstrate efficiency.
Yep. There's nothing about a particular valve that would necessarily lend itself to greater efficiency.

What you set is what you get.

Set the valve to a high flame, you'll get poor effciency.
Set the valve to a low flame, you'll get good* efficiency.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

*or at least as good as you're going to get for a given set up. You still need a good overall set up, particularly a windscreen, if you want decent efficiency. A low flame is just one part of the overall equation of efficiency.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: World's Lightest Canister Stove with Auto Ignition on 03/30/2013 15:38:11 MDT Print View

Jim wrote
> Again, the MicroRegulator is a fine stove
Oh yes, the stove itself is well made and works well, and I said that in the article. It's all the marketing spin which stinks.

Cheers

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Efficiency?!? on 03/31/2013 20:35:00 MDT Print View

"The Soto demonstration did nothing to demonstrate efficiency. As the canister cools you do not need to adjust the Soto, but you do need to adjust the non-regulated stove. That is the advantage of the regulator, and it is the ONLY advantage. In that video they could have simply turned the other stove up to match the Soto."

In the "tips" section of the SOTO manual it explains the SOTO stove requires 1.5 turns vs. 0.5 turns for the common needle valve stove to start letting gas out for ignition. To reach full power the SOTO requires several more turns while the needle valve is already pretty much wide open with another 0.5 turn. Indeed, we actually see this valve turning "difference" in the video.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Regulator Valves, Needle Valves on 04/06/2013 12:34:00 MDT Print View

In the "tips" section of the SOTO manual it explains the SOTO stove requires 1.5 turns vs. 0.5 turns for the common needle valve stove to start letting gas out for ignition. To reach full power the SOTO requires several more turns while the needle valve is already pretty much wide open with another 0.5 turn. Indeed, we actually see this valve turning "difference" in the video.
Of course there are needle valves and then there are needle valves. There's no law that says "Thou shalt have a short taper." A needle valve can be designed to have a "long" taper or a short one. That's entirely up to the designer.

Actually the same is true in the case of regulator valves: They can open up right away or they can take a number of turns. I've used the following: The MSR Reactor, the Jetboil Sol, and the Soto MicroRegulator. The Soto MicroRegulator has by far the best fine control over the flame. Ever try to simmer with an MSR Reactor?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving