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Cesar Valdez
(PrimeZombie) - F

Locale: Scandinavia
The "I don't get it" thread on 03/09/2013 16:13:22 MST Print View

A place for you to pick a nuanced issue in light weight backpacking that you just "don't get" and have people that "get it" offer some perspective. No trick/cynical/rhetorical questions or "my way is better than your way" or "you're doing it all wrong" type thing. Just honest questions and concerns about something that you don't do or use and a chance to learn from those that do--maybe change your mind about something and end up improving your backpacking experience, who knows?

I'll start.

I recently saw a thread on one water resistant mitt vs. another (Zpacks WPB vs. MLD eVent) and after skimming the thread realized this was something I really don't get. I have never used them, in fairness, but have never felt the need.

When it rains, I don't care if my hands get wet, and I don't see the big deal. In the summer, they don't get cold from being wet because, well, it's summer and warm. In the spring/fall my hands rarely get cold and wet because either I am hiking (and hence, blood is pumping, and I'm warm) or if I am at camp I am under my shelter for the night (and hence fairly dry). Also in the spring/fall I usually wear a pair of thin wool or alpaca gloves to keep my hands warm, and when they get wet, they still keep my hands warm--not as warm when dry, obviously, but warm enough.

In the winter I wear synth or wool liners and either leather or wool over gloves, and they don't get wet often. Though there have been times in the winter that both my gloves got soaked (e.g. two months ago, slipped while walking over a small frozen stream and the ice broke). But my hands were still warm enough, and eventually dried out as I hiked and I was fine.

Plus, in climbing around on rocks or holding on to trees as is done when out in nature at times, or if you slip and/or fall (which is more likely when it is raining and slick, after all) wouldn't it be more likely for over mitts to get damaged or worn out? And when you need to blow your nose or use the bathroom or something where you need/want to take off your gloves/mitts, your hands are going to get at least a little wet eventually, right?

I live in an area that gets a fair amount if not a lot of rain, and have done plenty of trips out in the rain during all 4 seasons, and can't remember a time when my hands were wet and/or cold enough for me to wish I had a pair of water resistant over mitts. Maybe it's because I don't use hiking poles? Do I just have good circulation? Or what am I missing here?

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 16:57:36 MST Print View

I don't get windshirts. So many people seem to LOVE them, but I've never felt that I needed a windshirt where a power stretch fleece or rain jacket couldn't suffice. I know they're very light, but I've been fine without one, so why add another piece of gear?

Are they really that awesome?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 17:06:49 MST Print View

Trav,

I will bring a spare windshirt for you to try on the Pictured Rocks trip if you like.
If your hiking in a forest where wind is not a big issue a wind shirt maybe a moot point, but if your on a windy open mountain then its your best buddy.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 17:11:15 MST Print View

Ahhh, I see what dirty tricks you are up to, Stephen. You're just trying to get me to spend more money. ;)


Sure! I'll give it a go!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 17:16:42 MST Print View

Would you, like dark blue, light blue, red or green.

Oh, hood or no hood?

Edited by stephenm on 03/09/2013 17:53:58 MST.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 18:07:33 MST Print View

Lol. Got a houdini?

No opinion on color. Hood please!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 18:17:15 MST Print View

I do indeed have Houdiini, have yet to use it in anger yet as have been wearing Paramo all winter.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 18:19:13 MST Print View

Ah, Paramo! That I wouldn't mind trying...

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 18:23:17 MST Print View

I will bring that along for a look see as well.

My wife said she would come on the Pictured Rocks trip, with one caveat, will ping you on the other thread.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: over mitts on 03/09/2013 18:34:31 MST Print View

Cesar,
I'm with you. The only time my hands were cold from rain, I just pulled the arms of my DriDucks over them. Maybe I need to hike in cold blowing rain more?

Stephen,
You're making me really regret not being able to make that trip. :P I've also used my DriDucks for those windy passes. It's worked fine so far but I don't have a lot of experience yet.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: over mitts on 03/09/2013 18:53:40 MST Print View

That's a shame you cannot make it Michael,

I have seen Dri ducks in Walmart but have yet to try them out, must do sometime.

William Segraves
(sbill9000) - F - M
Re: The "I don't get it" thread on 03/09/2013 19:05:43 MST Print View

Different strokes for different folks. Nothing I like better for keeping hands warm in a driving 33 degree rain than a pair of myog fleece mittens (1.2 oz, XL) covered with myog wpb mitts (1 oz, XL). I do use trekking poles, so that may be part of it. When they wear out, I'll make another pair.

Without them, I've had hands get cold enough that it mattered, even while hiking vigorously. It's not a mistake I'll make twice.

I didn't really "get" windshirts either, until I took a 2 oz myog tyvek windshirt (just cut from a tyvek suit) on an extended trip. Was it necessary? Probably not, but I found myself using it multiple times every day. After that, I bought a real windshirt. Perhaps it's a luxury/convenience item, but it's a couple of ounces that get a lot of use.

Best,

Bill

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
The "I don't get it" thread on 03/09/2013 19:25:02 MST Print View

As a runner, I get windshirts. One of the best pieces of gear out there. Small and light enough to tie around the waist or stuff in your shorts, yet fully functional for aerobic stuff in cold weather. I've had my Houdini and others down to 20 degrees with nothing but a t-shirt and arm sleeves underneath.

1
Perhaps they don't make sense to some in the context of backpacking when you have a rain shell and other insulation at your disposal, but when you're trying to keep your whole kit to a pound or less and ultra compact for a long run, they shine.

________________________________________________

What I don't get is how many people are "not getting" mitts and windshirts, while we've got people here that are content peeing in the bottles and pots they eat or drink out of.

Just Say No to peeing in your dinnerware!

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 19:42:32 MST Print View

Windshirts block wind and are more breathable (which means that you will be dryer) than a rain jacket. What's so complicated about that?

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 20:37:31 MST Print View

One of the tenants of lightweight backpacking is utilizing multiple use gear. A raincoat can block wind, therefore it has multiple uses. A windshirt cannot be used as a rain jacket.

The concept of where and why a rain jacket is useful isn't complicated, but when I can keep wind off me adequately with gear I already carry, a windshirt seems less useful to me.

That being said, I'm willing to see what I may be missing.

Edited by T.L. on 03/09/2013 20:54:35 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 20:53:37 MST Print View

My wind proof is never in my pack as I am always wearing so does not effect my base weight, and I see skin out weight as anal retentive.
If its raining I wear both.

rOg w
(rOg_w) - F - M

Locale: rogwilmers.wordpress
deleted on 03/09/2013 20:58:14 MST Print View

deleted

Edited by rOg_w on 06/17/2013 19:57:35 MDT.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 21:16:52 MST Print View

That's a very good point Travis, but the extra breathability is well worth the weight, especially in shoulder seasons where staying dry is much more important.
It might mean the difference between having a hiking layer that is dry enough to sleep in and having a layer that is too damp to sleep in.

Edited by justin_baker on 03/09/2013 21:17:24 MST.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 21:38:00 MST Print View

I guess that's why I need to try one! Apparently I'm missing something (I mean that seriously).

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Windshirts. on 03/09/2013 21:41:50 MST Print View

Remind me the day before the Pictured Rocks trip and I will bring one along for you to try out.