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Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff? on 03/06/2013 11:58:08 MST Print View

I recently purchased online from an ebay seller in the US with a high rating her "used, but like new" women's Nano Puff Hoodie. When it arrived, it has some variances in it that make me suspect it's not genuine. I have two other Patagonia jackets- a Down Sweater Hooded Full Zip, and a Nano Puff pullover. The shell material on this new Nano Puff is different- it's a heavier material, not as soft and slick as the other two jackets. Also, in the photos online of the women's Nano Puff Hoodie, the diamond shaped baffling runs the long way vertically. On this jacket, the diamond shaped baffling runs the long way horizontally.

In all respects the jacket appears well constructed. However, the entire point of getting this jacket was to get a Primaloft One Hoodie for use in wetter weather when my down hoodie would get soaked and lose loft. If this is a counterfeit, it's a sure bet it doesn't have Primaloft One insulation and since I don't know what it has, I won't trust it which makes the jacket worthless to me if it is a fake.

I searched this site and the net specifically looking for incidents of counterfeit Patagonia product and didn't find anything. I found comments here that "Patagonia is ripe for counterfeiting", esp. when in 2011 they actually suggested that people only buy what they need and to buy used if possible as part of their "Green Initiative". However, I have found no specific references that anyone has had a problem with counterfeit product. But I may have missed something.

FWIW, I have contacted Patagonia directly with questions to see if they can confirm that I simply have an older version of the coat, or that it's a fake, but I'm curious if anyone here has ever run into this issue with Patagonia product?

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
check the care label on 03/06/2013 12:06:23 MST Print View

What does it say on the care/material label? Usually there is a white tag with style numbers/batch number etc. Usually, there'll be some indication to what season/year the clothing is from, like Sp10 for spring 2010, etc. That might help you figure out of its an older version.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Test it on 03/06/2013 13:05:23 MST Print View

"However, the entire point of getting this jacket was to get a Primaloft One Hoodie for use in wetter weather when my down hoodie would get soaked and lose loft. If this is a counterfeit, it's a sure bet it doesn't have Primaloft One insulation and since I don't know what it has, I won't trust it which makes the jacket worthless to me if it is a fake"

You could test it in the conditions you want to use it in. Primal oft One or not, if it passes your test you got what you wanted right? Do it with a safe bailout option. Probably something you should have considered doing even if you purchased directly from Patagonia. Testing gear to its limits for the first time is probably not something you want to do in the field anyway -regardless of what the Internet says its capable of.

William Johnsen
(sixoclocknews) - F
Pics on 03/06/2013 13:10:59 MST Print View

Post some pictures and I'm sure someone has one that can compare or at least speak to variances that might lead to suspicion of a fake.

Edited by sixoclocknews on 03/06/2013 13:11:45 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff? on 03/06/2013 13:15:10 MST Print View

The model number on the care tag may identify the actual product. For example, my men's full zip nano puff jacket that I have is marked STY: 84210F0. That does match the Patagonia model number of 84210 and I assume the F0 is Fall 2010.

What you may find I'd that you have an older model Patagonia women's jacket with light synthetic fill. Post what you find on the tag and I'll compare too.

Most Primaloft garments have a black and red tag sewn in the left side seam near or with the care tag on a Patagonia garment. I can't imagine a manufacturer missing out on the opportunity to brag on that.

If it is a true Patagonia product, I wouldn't worry about the integrity of the fill. If you didn't pay a lot for the item, it may still be a bargain. In fact it may breathe better than a Nano Puff.


Trailspace.com is an excellent resouce for identifying older gear. Register for free access to the search functions. When you do search, check at the bottom of the list for a link to include the discontinued items.

Outdoor Research clothing can be a real challenged to ID. Much of the newer stuff has a tag with the model name, but good luck for older gear.

Jeremy B.
(requiem) - F - M

Locale: Northern California
Re: Re: Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff? on 03/06/2013 13:55:09 MST Print View

Yes, posting label/tag information would be useful. I am curious if it might have been a mislabeled Micro Puff instead, as some of those have had horizontal diamonds.

Some of the pics here have examples of different baffle styles:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/patagonia/micro-puff-hooded-jacket/

Jane Howe
(janeclimber) - MLife
unlikely a counterfeit on 03/06/2013 14:29:12 MST Print View

Just my two cents, your jacket is very unlikely a counterfeit.

1. It takes a lot of effort to make a nanopuff jacket, even for a counterfeit. For making counterfeit, the purpose is to make money quick and easy. So making fake Pata T-shirt or fleece is much much easier. Most of the Asians would buy a down jacket instead of a primaloft. So it would be more likely they make fake Patagonia goose down sweater and stuff it with chicken feathers (I saw quite some of TNF fake puffy in Beijing). I had a pair counterfeit Patagonia fleece pants before. I did NOT purchase it. A friend of mine bought it from a market in Nepal, fully aware it was a fake Patagonia. She later on gave it to me because it was too short for her. After using it for two years, I gave it away.

2. Also, most of the counterfeits are from China. From what I know, nanopuff is NOT that popular in China. Only the true outdoorsy people wear them. The market is too small for counterfeit.

3. Patagonia sometimes changes the fabric of some of their products from year to year. I have two pairs of their hardshells from 2006 and 2007 production year. They are the SAME model. But the fabrics are slightly different.

4. For someone sells a counterfeit for profit, they usually sell it as "NEW". It is an Asian culture that if you can afford it, you do NOT buy used cloth. Even it is a used expensive Patagonia.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 15:18:50 MST Print View

Thanks for all the helpful responses. I'm leaning on it probably being a "Micro Puff" instead of a "Nano Puff". There is a Micro Puff model in the link helpfully provided that looks very similar.

Here are photos I took of the jacket today. FWIW, the seller provided a stock photo off of Patagonia's website, which is why I didn't catch it before I bought it.

[img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc509/EagleRiverDee/IMG_1790_zps7b705ac1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc509/EagleRiverDee/IMG_1794_zpseb001c27.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc509/EagleRiverDee/IMG_1793_zps056deac9.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc509/EagleRiverDee/IMG_1791_zps05d11754.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc509/EagleRiverDee/IMG_1792_zps05d11754.jpg[/img]

I give up. The HTML coding just doesn't seem to work. I don't know how to get the pictures to embed. Sorry.

I tried to do a search at Patagonia's site and on Google for the numbers off the tag but nothing comes up.

Edited by EagleRiverDee on 03/06/2013 15:25:22 MST.

dave e
(hipass) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
m i c on 03/06/2013 15:36:37 MST Print View

China devotes much resources to making and exporting fake name brand products.For instance you can google aound for Gibson les paul wholesalers and you will see many chinese factories that make and sell fake Les Pauls(with fake Gibson and Les Paul logos)for 1/10 the cost here.Im assuming this goes for anything under the sun.
What really floored me was when someone told me they wanted to buy some super expensive american brand road bike rims and to avoid retail they got a hold of the manufacturer in china directly and had them sell the rims directly to them-the only drawback being the factory wouldnt put the brand logo on the wheels and your cantonese has to be pretty good.Pretty slimy stuff and i bet it happens a lot but american companies want to keep that dirty secret on the down-low.

Edited by hipass on 03/06/2013 15:44:16 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: "Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 15:38:55 MST Print View

You have a nice Micro Puff hoodie from Fall of 2011. Probably a few ounces more than the Nano Puff, but a better jacket IMHO. Should be about 18.9oz(536g). I was able to confirm the 83987 model number through several vendors.

Patagonia women's Micro Puff Hoodie

I wouldn't fault the eBay vendor too much unless they specialize in such stuff. I would call it ignorance rather than malfeasance. You may have gotten a good deal--- if your geat list can handle the extra ounces.

Edited by dwambaugh on 03/06/2013 15:46:59 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: "Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 15:42:02 MST Print View

The Micro puff is indeed a very nice piece.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
Thanks, everyone. on 03/06/2013 15:49:01 MST Print View

I am satisfied that although I didn't get what I thought I was purchasing that it's a not a fake and that it's a good piece. I paid too much for it, as Nano Puff's go for more money on ebay than a Micro Puff but live and learn I suppose.

I really appreciate all the feedback and helpful responses.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
DHS IPR Hotline on 03/06/2013 15:51:39 MST Print View

http://www.iprcenter.gov/contact-us

Edit: Disregard if you feel you have a legit product. I ran into some counterfeits in SE Asia like North Face and other backpacking gear which looked like the real thing. For the record I didn't buy them.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 03/06/2013 15:55:36 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Thanks, everyone. on 03/06/2013 15:53:22 MST Print View

Hi Dena,

Get on to the seller, the may refund you the price difference.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
All's Well That Ends Well on 03/06/2013 15:57:16 MST Print View

As long as OP is satisfied with what he got with his hard earned cash.

I've always heard of fake apparels, esp. TNF, on Ebay. When it is too good to be true, it usually is...

Edited by ben2world on 03/06/2013 16:00:32 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Thanks, everyone. on 03/06/2013 16:00:37 MST Print View

I would expect eBay to back you if you want to return it for a full refund. By their rules, you will have to pay the return shipping. If you want to pursue it, I would just send the seller a note stating the model number and that it is not what was described. I think it is pretty cut and dried myself. If the seller balks, then you can file a complaint with eBay and the process will begin. Just make sure you send it back with tracking info and you might spend the extra for signature confirmation.

Or someone may buy it here!

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 16:04:27 MST Print View

Stephen-

The seller and I are in communication but they aren't being very friendly about this. They're mad at me already because I gave them a "neutral" rating both because I got an item that wasn't what I ordered and because they were cheap and put it in an envelope to ship it instead of a box and the envelope arrived with 5 rips and a hole in it, one rip was so large that it's how I took the jacket out. They also took 7 days to ship it. I thought a neutral rating was generous, considering.

Considering it's my first not-so-good experience on ebay, I guess I'm still ahead of the game.

dave e
(hipass) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
Re: Thanks, everyone. on 03/06/2013 16:05:23 MST Print View

If the seller made a mistake in the posting and you really need a nano more than a micro,return it and dont feel bad about it-especially if they are a hi volume seller.Regardless, if they made a mistake in the listing you shouldnt have to pay return shipping either-just make sure you return it with a tracking number.
Ive owned both and they are significantly different jackets.The nano is really packable and lightweight.

**Dale,afaik,if the seller made a mistake they have to pay return shipping as well.

**Dena, shipping prices have skyrocketted for small boxes.Using a mailing envelope for a jacket vs a box is 8-10$ difference.If the seller has attitude,return it and dont think about it.I guess the only mistake you might have made was leaving fb before resolving the issue but a neutral is a non-issue for a seller anyway.

Edited by hipass on 03/06/2013 16:19:59 MST.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Copy Cats vs. Fat Cats on 03/06/2013 16:06:35 MST Print View

I get what you're saying Ben as I feel I was given the chorizo every time I entered the book store.

Black market products may be manufactured in Asia but there are terrorist and RICO groups selling them in the U.S to fund more sinister agendas. Just as anyone who uses a controlled substance with ties to Mexico has blood on their hands, the same is true for the counterfeit market.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Copy Cats vs. Fat Cats on 03/06/2013 16:12:14 MST Print View

Ah sorry, Ian... I revised my post above fearing I had gone on a tangent. Narcos, yes, but I believe most all legal products are made by ordinary businesses in Asia -- some of them owned by American brands even.

Not to condone copying -- but I don't think we need to worry about funding the Chinese mafia... most workers there are thankful for their jobs -- which put food on their dinner tables and send their children to schools.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: "Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 16:21:36 MST Print View

That's a shame Dena, I do hope you get some recourse from them.

I have all but given up buying from eBay unless I cannot get the item elsewhere.

Best of luck.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 16:27:00 MST Print View

"I have all but given up buying from eBay unless I cannot get the item elsewhere."

I understand. I've been very fortunate to have nearly all good experiences. I only buy from top rated sellers, which helps, but even then here I am with this experience. My problem is I'm cheap, lol, and so ebay is a good resource for me when I'm feeling too cheap to pay MSRP.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Copy Cats vs. Fat Cats on 03/06/2013 16:30:25 MST Print View

You are not incorrect. Many of the counterfeit goods are produced by ordinary people who work at the same plant which incidentally produces the legitimate version as well.

The problem is that the counterfeit goods are knowingly or unknowingly sold to RICO and Terrorist groups all over the world (including the U.S.) who are the points of sale for the illegal product and who make a profit. I’m not trying to be melodramatic but terror groups really do use these products to generate revenue for their organizations.

IPR crimes are thought of like jaywalking offenses socially so it's easier to peddle black market DVDs or backpacks in plain view than it is to sell illicit narcotics.

Since I’m several zip codes outside of the scope of the OP I’ll shut up now.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
Counterfeit stuff on 03/06/2013 16:34:32 MST Print View

Ian- I appreciated your comments and your link. I do think counterfeiting is an issue. I have been sold one truly (I know it for sure) counterfeit item on ebay which I bought in ignorance. It's the P90X workout series DVD's. At the time I ignorantly thought I was just buying someone's unused DVD's, found out later that there's a huge piracy issue with P90X and other Beachbody programs. So it's nice to know where to report it. What I didn't know is the rest of the black market supporting nefarious folks. That, I'm going to have to look into further, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Thanks.

Konrad .
(Konrad1013) - MLife
Re: Counterfeit stuff on 03/06/2013 16:41:22 MST Print View

Dena, hopefully you can get a partial refund...but you never know with these things. I hate it when that happens. Some sellers are just pure jackholes and would rather fight you to the death before giving an inch. I've been burned before due to seller's incompetence/laziness when they listed descriptions/photos that didn't match the products. Happens the most with sellers who flip goods, raid estate and auction sales and sell in volume. You can generally get a feel for the seller by looking at what other items he/she has up for sale as well. The thing that pisses me off the most is when I go to send an item back, that I don't get a refund on my return shipping. Why should the buyer be out of cash, with no product in hand, due to a seller's screwup? Gets me every time! (shakes fist at ebay policies)

About the packaging...hopefully the price you paid reflects the cost of shipping. Ebay has pretty decent shipping calculators setup these days, although more often then not, I've had to ship items for a few more dollars than what ebay estimated and charged the buyer. These days, I overestimate the weight by a lb and refund if needed. If you paid a lot for shipping but only got an envelope, then yeah seller's trying to make some money on the side through overcharging, which deserves neutral feedback at the very least.

Edited by Konrad1013 on 03/06/2013 16:47:02 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: "Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 16:50:49 MST Print View

"The seller and I are in communication but they aren't being very friendly about this. They're mad at me already because I gave them a "neutral" rating both because I got an item that wasn't what I ordered and because they were cheap and put it in an envelope to ship it instead of a box and the envelope arrived with 5 rips and a hole in it, one rip was so large that it's how I took the jacket out. They also took 7 days to ship it. I thought a neutral rating was generous, considering."

Sounds like a flaky vendor to me. Seven days to ship is inexcusable. A neutral rating is tame for selling the wrong item PLUS late shipping.

The envelope/box thing is a tougher call. The top retailers (REI, Eddie Bauer, etc etc) all use poly bags, but they can absorb the risk--- and have the leverage to get back at the shipping company. I got a down sweater from Eddie Bauer in a poly bag with holes in it, but the garment survived. Dumb luck on their part!

The tough part is how much weight is saved. A box will often take things over the 2 pound limit. eBay vendors can get slammed if they overcharge for shipping and the competition of the marketplace favors lower shipping prices, ergo the use of light bags. Some mail processing centers are really rough on packages. Ultimately, common sense needs to prevail and the item needs to be protected.

I once sold an item that was trashed in the mail. I gave the buyer a complete refund after seeing a photo. She told of also getting a package of stickers that was ripped open and empty, and when she went to the post office to complain, a worker rolled by with a cart FESTOONED WITH HER MISSING STICKERS! I guess she got a little hot and they threw her out.

All you need to do is open a claim with eBay. If the vendor has been abusive, threatening, or refusing to respond due to the feedback, forward that info to eBay. Once your item shows as delivered to the vendor, eBay/PayPal will automatically refund the payment, including the shipping you paid.

I've only had to do this dance a couple times in 14 years on eBay. I got a Mountain Hardwear fleece that was so totally counterfeit I could see it without opening the clear plastic bag. Smelled like burnt oil too.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 17:00:00 MST Print View

"About the packaging...hopefully the price you paid reflects the cost of shipping."

It didn't. She charged me $10.50 in shipping and then stuffed it into a bubblepack envelope and shipped it for $2.95 Parcel Post. I don't care that she shipped it Parcel Post (although Priority Mail would be classier and would have allowed for tracking) but at PP prices she could have boxed it.

I've read all the other glowing feedback reports on her and can only surmise that I caught her on a bad day (week?). She's in Baltimore and has good ratings and I am the only person to ever give her a less than positive rating.

dave e
(hipass) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
claim on 03/06/2013 17:51:02 MST Print View

"She charged me $10.50 in shipping and then stuffed it into a bubblepack envelope and shipped it for $2.95 Parcel Post. "

Sellers arent allowed to do that per ebay and you can ding them on shipping overcharges in the feedback system on top of the reg fb.


ebay is a virtually 100% money back garantee for buyers nowadays even when buyer is in the wrong.If you dont want or really need the micro file a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim thru paypal.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: "Did I buy a counterfeit Patagonia Nano Puff?" on 03/06/2013 18:27:10 MST Print View

"It didn't. She charged me $10.50 in shipping and then stuffed it into a bubblepack envelope and shipped it for $2.95 Parcel Post. I don't care that she shipped it Parcel Post (although Priority Mail would be classier and would have allowed for tracking) but at PP prices she could have boxed it."

That is bad and I would be livid. Actually, you paid for a certain type of shipping which had to be specified in the auction as the seller input the auction listing. Priority Mail is 3 days and Parcel Post is much slower, so I think that is fraud, plain and simple. The seller must meet the shipping services stated in the auction, or you have a bait-and-switch. Even if the auction has free shipping, the seller has to meet the level of service specified. I once had a seller who want me to pay more after the auction was concluded and I reminded him that the shipping is part of the deal that he committed to. No way!

You can do tracking with First Class and Parcel Post too. eBay sellers have shipping options online that you can't get on the USPS web site. Tracking is free.

Added:

One way to read between the lines with an eBay seller is to check their feedback page and look at the upper right corner where it says "Revised Feedback." That refers to sellers who got in trouble with a buyer and basically serviced, begged, or bought their way out of a negative feedback. The number there should be zero or very small.

See the red X on the right side.
ebay sample

Edited by dwambaugh on 03/07/2013 15:32:56 MST.