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just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/03/2013 00:27:15 MST Print View

Hi folks,

I've been wondering what fabric would be good to sew onto some inexpensive Frogg Togg type rain gear. It needs to be relatively cheap, light weight (less than 2.5 oz per square yd), and increase the durability of the F.T.'s? Any suggestions? I'm looking to pay less than 8 dollars per yard for fabric. I like nylon for durability, strength, and lightweight, but polyester is also being considered for it's better UV resistance and more innate hydrophobic nature.

Thank you for your consideration

Edited by ArcturusBear on 03/03/2013 00:43:14 MST.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/03/2013 22:13:41 MST Print View

Would noseeum netting increase abrasion resistance at all, or not enough for the added weight? Otherwise i'm thinking any kind of standard nylon 1.1 to 1.9 oz or so type fabric?

I really don't like the idea of "throw away" clothing, and as far as i can tell, the big weakness of frogg toggs is abrasion resistance mostly. Otherwise the fabric seems strong and durable enough. I know Frogg Toggs has come out with a new line of more durable rain gear wherein they face it with a microfiber polyester, but i don't want to pay an extra 40 dollars or so, for something i could do myself probably for about 14 dollars.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Breathability on 03/03/2013 23:54:29 MST Print View

Anything you add to the face of it will decrease breathability. So you are definitely sacrificing weight and breathability. As for fabric perhaps 1443 tyvek. Its the material that painting smoks are made of and is soft and quiet unlike homewrap tyvek.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Breathability on 03/04/2013 15:21:01 MST Print View

Hi Greg,

That is potentially true, but i doubt that say .7 oz Noseeum netting fabric is going to decrease breath-ability, or increase weight much at all. I just want to add a little extra abrasion resistance. The nice thing about F.T.'s is that since they are made of polypro, they tend to be rather light to begin with (at least most of the models i have looked at).

I think i will experiment with the noseeum netting first since it's the lightest, cheapest, and most breathable fabric i can afford.

David Miles
(davidmiles) - F

Locale: Eastern Sierra
Re: Netting on 03/06/2013 03:09:20 MST Print View

Netting on the outside will snag on everything you walk by.

Edited by davidmiles on 03/06/2013 03:10:27 MST.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Netting on 03/08/2013 00:50:38 MST Print View

You're probably right David. Hmm, back to the drawing board...time to get creative. I just need some kind of initial light, breathable, and slick, non catching barrier. Dyneema fishing line tautly taped on in a grid fashion with bits of tyvek tape???

Lol, then Daryl and i can have a "whose outfit looks more odd" contest!

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/08/2013 01:54:54 MST Print View

This seems like an awful amount of work for a cheap jacket with a zipper that can randomly bust out on you.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/08/2013 15:16:42 MST Print View

Justin B. wrote, "This seems like an awful amount of work for a cheap jacket with a zipper that can randomly bust out on you."

Yeah, normally i try to abide by the KISS philosophy, but i really love the degree of breathability and at the same time waterproofness of the Frogg Toggs material. Not to mention it's very cheap price. The major issue though is it's abrasion resistance. I'm hoping if i can increase that some, i can get it to last significantly longer. I'm fairly "eco" minded, and don't like the idea of using some kind of plastic type material for a short period of time and then throwing it away, and repeating it over again.

I got 500 meters of pure dyneema fishing line, 80 lb strength, for like 26 dollars, which means im pretty much set with dyneema cord for life (wish i had known about this stuff before i started my external-carbon fiber frame backpack!) and don't mind a little taping. This project shouldn't take more than an hour or two tops.

Re: the zipper, lol maybe i should just go ahead and replace it with a #3 YKK zipper, sew and reinforce with tyvek tape... ; ) (being serious though, Tyvek tape is AWESOME for Frogg Toggs--it's much better to use this than what most people do--duct tape, as the Tyvek tape adheres much better, is more weather and heat resistant, and is lighter.)

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Super Mica style on 03/08/2013 17:46:54 MST Print View

Take a look at the new Marmot Super Mica. They have printed on reinforcements at high wear areas. I did the same thing on my rain jacket, but with clear Tenacious Tape gear repair tape. I just used a few pieces of 1cm wide x 4" strips parallel to each other and spaced apart an inch or so at each high wear area.

Remember to reinforce the lumbar area where your pack will touch. Wear your pack over your jacket and reinforce those areas.

For my shoulders, the main wear point was a few inches ventral (forward) of the tops of my shoulders.

The hold is permanent, that is unless you try to peel it off. Mine has been on for many months and several wash cycles with no signs of it coming off.

Also, remember to round any sharp corners to prevent it from catching on something and peeling.

I find the clear tape works best as the colored fabric ones tend to fray over time.

And I've experienced no issues with breathability, as the tape only covers such a small, but vital, area.

Edited by LunchANDYnner on 03/08/2013 17:52:44 MST.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/08/2013 18:21:47 MST Print View

Justin,

"i really love the degree of breathability and at the same time waterproofness of the Frogg Toggs material"

Me too. No other wb coat I have works as well.

Combining your good luck with tyvek tape and An-D's experience with taping specific areas might be worth trying.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/08/2013 18:31:44 MST Print View

I wear Dri Ducks under a windbreaker when bushwhacking.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/08/2013 19:10:47 MST Print View

Yeah, the couple of times that I actually used my dri ducks while hiking I was also doing some serious bushwacking. I was wearing a regular button up nylon hiking shirt and I put it over my dri ducks. Your outer shirt will get wet, which sucks, but for occasional use it's not a bad option.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
cuben on 03/09/2013 04:26:28 MST Print View

are you referring to frog toggs, or dri ducks in particular.

the light slick ones, or the heavy fuzzy ones?

cuben fiber tape works to reinforce driducks areas, like contact on shoulders, etc.
cheap, light, permanent.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/09/2013 10:11:10 MST Print View

Seems like an incredible pain for little gain. The only place I seem to tear up is around the wrists which don't matter too much. After 3 years I did finally add some transparent duct tape around there. And I'm referring to the lighter DriDucks, not the thicker Frogg Toggs. I do use trekking poles to push brush away though since I know the material is fragile.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/11/2013 23:49:39 MDT Print View

Hi An-D and Daryl,

Sounds like some good ideas, thanks.



Hi David and Justin,

Hmm, i would think wearing a windshirt over it would really decrease the breathability significantly, but Justin i think your idea might work decently, a really breathable and thinner synthetic over shirt (or pants) sounds like it would work.


Hi M.B.,

I'm not sure. So far i only have two Frogg Toggs items. The emergency poncho which is really lightweight and basic, and the thicker, slightly larger, and more features poncho. I was looking into getting some of the regular jacket, or really more so at the very least some pants. It's the pants i'm worried about especially re: durability.

I would like to be able to make them into my combo windpants, rain pants, and go to lighter weight pants, but it seems like these would be really fragile for the purpose, whether the lighter or thicker stuff.


Hi Michael,

Perhaps..., perhaps. See pants comments above. I probably should have specified earlier that i was more concerned about reinforcing the pants.

Thank you everyone for the feedback

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
speculation on 03/12/2013 11:00:40 MDT Print View

"Hi David and Justin,

Hmm, i would think wearing a windshirt over it would really decrease the breathability significantly, but Justin i think your idea might work decently, a really breathable and thinner synthetic over shirt (or pants) sounds like it would work."

There sure is a lot dogma associated with backpacking. Try something first before dismissing it outright. Some waterproof
breathables work better with insulation over them.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
keep your pants up on 03/12/2013 11:05:57 MDT Print View

Most rain pants blowout at the crotch, in my experience. Wearing some light suspenders will prevent most of this.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: keep your pants up on 03/12/2013 11:52:19 MDT Print View

David wrote, "There sure is a lot dogma associated with backpacking. Try something first before dismissing it outright. Some waterproof
breathables work better with insulation over them."

Hi David, i wasn't stating an absolute, or that i was very sure of it, which is why i wrote "i would think..." not a very firm or strong preface. I'm a fairly open minded guy, and will try and consider much before dismissing it outright.

However, i lean to dismissing it (at least for the conditions i usually face) because of all the posts and threads i have read here about CFM levels, windshirts, etc, etc. My limited understanding is that to understand the CFM levels of a given system, if you have two layers on, you basically get it decreased by a factor of the combination. So it's more of an informed guess based on logic and prior knowledge. (Richard Nisley's posts were very informative in this area).

What i really like about the Frogg Toggs is just how breathable they are as a 1st and only layer. I just don't want to mess too much with that, which is why i like Justin B.'s idea a bit more right off hand. I'm of northern Celtic (lots of Scottish) and Germanic blood primarily, and i tend to run hot (though i don't sweat profusely).


David wrote, "Most rain pants blowout at the crotch, in my experience. Wearing some light suspenders will prevent most of this."

Thank you for the tip David.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Fabric choice to increase durability of Frogg Toggs rain wear? on 03/20/2013 22:35:14 MDT Print View

So, as per Justin B.'s suggestion and report of past experience, i went out and bought some cheap (some at thrift stores, and the others clearance items), over sized, very thin, lightweight, and quite breathable long sleeve shirts and pants to go over my newly acquired Frogg Toggs jacket and pants (the dri ducks type stuff). They are all made out of polyester.

They should add some abrasion protection, while not reducing breathability much at all.

A truly KISS solution. Thank you David and Justin for the idea. Kind of makes one wonder why Frogg Toggs thinks they can charge 70 dollars for their jackets now that they just added better zippers and a polyester outer to make it more durable.

Even with the combined weight of the dri ducks type Frogg Toggs, and the thin, light weight poly shirt and pant covering, still pretty light weight all in all. I've seen eVent jackets, etc. heavier, and i bet this system is still even more breathable than eVent. Course still not as durable in the long term, but i have a Stoic Vapour Shell jacket in reserve for a more long term, durable type go to jacket if needed for that purpose.