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Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber
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Steve B
(geokite) - F

Locale: Southern California
Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 17:05:11 MST Print View

Did a search here, didn't find any posts showing this already.
Dated 2/18/13, down the page a bit: http://www.rayjardine.com/News/index.htm

So, who would like to go first? :)

Steve

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 17:45:48 MST Print View

One reason they don't make square tent poles.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Cuben Fiber and Ray Jardine on 03/01/2013 18:29:12 MST Print View

People have hiked thousands of miles with Cuben gear without problems. Sorry but some little video isn't going to change my mind on that. A real test of cuben would be how hard it was to rip a tie out off a tarp or rip a strap off a pack.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 18:36:40 MST Print View

Would be really helpful if folks like Joe of Zpacks -- those who work with cuben and are familiar with the fabric will chime in.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Cuben Fiber and Ray Jardine on 03/01/2013 18:36:45 MST Print View

He needs to tear 0.53 oz silnylon. Trust me, it tears easily.

He is such an opportunistic Prick.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 18:46:05 MST Print View

cuben 1 vs sil before.jpgcuben 1 vs sil center seam.jpgcuben 1 vs sil failure 42 lbs.jpg


Simple seam with .51 cuben one side 1.3 oz silnylon other side. Pulled to failure.
Stitching, cuben and silnylon all failed together at 42 lbs.

The fabrics are comparable in strength in my experience. A second row of stitches would have increased the
strength of the seam overall.

Note the unreinforced web tie outs remained undamaged.

Edited by oware on 03/01/2013 18:55:41 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 18:49:04 MST Print View

"So, who would like to go first? :)"

Good one Stephen

Yeah, that "test" is not very useful

Ray is such a self-promoter

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Jardine on 03/01/2013 18:49:36 MST Print View

I don't presume to know Ray Jardine's character but it does come off looking bad. Sorta like "hey Cuben stinks so keep buying my silnylon kits."

I don't think Jardine has come up with a new idea since the 90s but he's still trying to pass himself off as an expert and peddle his gear kits. He has a right to do that, but I also have a right to say a new backpacker would be much better off looking to Ryan Jordan, Andrew Skurka or Brian Robinson for ideas.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 19:00:55 MST Print View

Screw Jardine- I wanna know what Gross thinks.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 19:07:11 MST Print View

Same guy that can't seem to properly care for or keep dry his down bags either. See Page 17

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 19:16:52 MST Print View

I've never seen a Jardine kit, so I can't say much about them.

The cuben fiber stuff that I have has turned out nicely, but maybe that is because I figured out how to treat them to avoid damage.

--B.G.--

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 19:20:57 MST Print View

I'm sorry, but his take on certain things reads like a parody.

It also appears that, despite all he has done for the backpacking world, everyone has moved on and he doesn't know how to adapt to more modern techniques and gear.

For example, he claims that his synthetic quilt should last decades if properly cared for. Ok, sure. But then...

"Unlike goose down which eventually goes flat, our synthetic insulation does not."

Apparently only Ray has this magical synthetic insulation?

Edited by T.L. on 03/01/2013 19:52:06 MST.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 19:35:20 MST Print View

Steve, didn't you know that Jardine won't allow you to copy that URL and post it without his permission? Just wait. He's going to come after you!

John Brochu
(JohnnyBgood4) - F

Locale: New Hampshire
Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 20:19:31 MST Print View

>>>I don't presume to know Ray Jardine's character but it does come off looking bad. Sorta like "hey Cuben stinks so keep buying my silnylon kits." <<<


Jeff Lowe (famous climber and founder of Latok Mountain Gear) had this to say about Jardine's character:

"But to the point of Ray's character:
I was there in '71 or '72 at my brother Mike's house in Gunnison, CO. Mike, Ray and I were Outward Bound instructors and therefore had something in common. Greg was over from Utah to work with Mike on the camming concept, which he'd been developing since 1967. Jardine had been invited to a spaghetti dinner, and Greg offerred to show him the current state of development of his new protection device for climbing, but first Ray had to sign a non-disclosure/non-compete agreement.

Ray was a quick engineering study and soon grasped the essentials of the constant-angle cam and spring-load concept. It was all-in-all a very convivial and exciting sharing among friends. This is why, several years later, when word began to leak out about Ray's secret devices, Greg sent the first of a string of registered letters to Jardine, seeking to come to some sort of agreement over his breach of faith. All the letters were refused, so it was that, finally, after Friends came out on the market and Mark Vallance began producing them under license from Ray, that Greg finally filed suit. To make a long story a little shorter, Mark, who is a stand-up guy, but had not been told the whole story by Ray, finally agreed to pay Greg a settlement for the use of the camming concept. Who needs an enema when you've got a friend like Ray?"


Source: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=385308&msg=387286#msg387286

Post #87 -- User Jello is well known to be Jeff Lowe.

Andrew F
(andrew.f) - F - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 20:30:36 MST Print View

It always amuses me that Jardine has a good reputation in the backpacking world, because it's the opposite in the climbing world. Aside from the story above, there are numerous other tales of his less than ethical behavior. For instance, the Jardine Traverse on the Nose route on El Capitan bears his name- because he chiseled the holds on it into the rock with a hammer.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Jardine on 03/01/2013 20:49:31 MST Print View

I had not heard these stories. I thought he was a bit eccentric but this is a new perspective.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
cuben on 03/01/2013 20:53:43 MST Print View

he compares 1.35 silnylon to 0.51 cuben, a factor of 2.5 x lighter material.

Why doesnt he compare it to 0.74 or 1.0 or 1.4 cuben? Because he would look foolish, thats why. Those materials, although lighter or equal to silnylon still, are much much stronger than the 0.51.

He only wants to make a flawed point, to steer people to his kits.

Edited by livingontheroad on 03/01/2013 20:54:19 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Ray Jardine examines Cuben Fiber on 03/01/2013 22:54:55 MST Print View

Jardine can be a crank on certain subjects. He seemed very grounded when writing on UL concepts but sounded a little freaky when he got on the subjects of food and nutrition. I swear I could hear the Twilight Zone theme and the book spoke to me in Rod Sterling's voice :)

Edited by dwambaugh on 03/01/2013 22:58:22 MST.

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
cuben on 03/02/2013 00:03:19 MST Print View

I'm not going back to silnylon. Much less condensation with cuben.
No problems in the field.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: cuben on 03/02/2013 00:27:07 MST Print View

Well just don't put your Cuben up against a square edged piece of wood and pull sideways on it :)

From the North Sails web site:


Cuben Fiber gives North sail designers the opportunity to design very light and easily pressurized sails with enough strength to handle high shock loads. There is no other lightweight sail material in the world that offers the strength needed to absorb the energy of an asymmetric sail refilling after a gybe, or the loads generated when sailing in lumpy seas. Super light Cuben Fiber styles weigh 33-50% less than the lightest coated nylon spinnaker cloths. A Cuben Fiber asymmetric spinnaker will stay pressurized and will load the spinnaker sheet at significantly lower apparent wind angles than any other material, providing a significant net VMG gain. The advantage is most pronounced in small-medium size boats where “traditional” spinnaker fabrics are tend to be somewhat overweight by nature.



If you can run a 50' sailboat upwind, you should be able to use it for a tarp!Cuben sails

Edited by dwambaugh on 03/02/2013 00:31:37 MST.