How much White Gas for snow camping
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Yes 1000
(mamamia)
Great answers on 03/02/2013 06:41:16 MST Print View

Thanks everyone for good inshights. I think I will keep 4 oz as an average amount of fuel/day. Primus Omnilite is supposed to be more fuel efficient and also the heat exchanger pot should help. For sure I will be using the windscreen and was thinking about using a 4 mm plywood stove stand. But Ray has a better idea with foam pad and I would try making one.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 03/02/2013 09:29:18 MST Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/12/2013 00:19:27 MDT.

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
double summer use? on 03/02/2013 11:36:20 MST Print View

Well that does not really compute for me. With a canister stove I use 1 oz of fuel for three or four days in the summer. With alcohol I use 3/4 oz per day in summer. Melting snow and bringing it to a boil takes a heck of a lot more then twice that amount.

Anybody that plans to rely on their stove for water should practice first in a controlled environment. Learn what you really need.

For those making a base I found out the hard way that glue does not hold in cold temps. The blue pad was for my MSR XGK EX (still in my pot at the time) and it had a neat little rectangular curb to hold the bottle in the optimum spot. The first night hit -31 F and I got up to find the foam popped off during the night. Now I use the alum tape to hold things together for winter.

XGK base

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Bottom Reflector Options on 03/02/2013 12:28:58 MST Print View

@Ray: That's a really slick stove pad. I like that it can fit in the stove bag. Most impressive.

@Daniel: You could try just using a round, stiff piece of heavy aluminum foil (e.g. an MSR brand heat refector), but I haven't found them to be stable enough. The aluminum gets hot after a while and wants to melt down into the snow. On really hard, icy snow, you might be able to get away with it, but I don't think it'll work in deep powder. A 10" x 10" square of the cheapie blue CCF doesn't weigh much...

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Bottom Reflector Options on 03/02/2013 12:36:53 MST Print View

I generally use a very thin square of Masonite, maybe 5 or 6 inches on a side. This gets me the stability. That can be covered with simple aluminum foil to get me the reflectivity.

On some trips I've done the same thing, except that I used heavy cardboard instead of Masonite. The cardboard will eventually get wet and fold up.

--B.G.--

Yes 1000
(mamamia)
Plywood? on 03/02/2013 16:30:56 MST Print View

I never have used liquid fuel stove since I'm new to backpacking and brand new to snow camping. I use canister stoves in summer ($8 ebay or Jetboil) how does it directly compare with doubling the fuel allowance. From my previous experience, I saw a 100gm canister going empty in less than a day, fortunately I had another 230gm spare canister and saved my second day camping.

On the stove base, how about cutting a 4mm plywood and covering it with aluminum foil. Or use a small kitchen chopping board.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Plywood? on 03/02/2013 16:47:41 MST Print View

"4mm plywood"

That's not too much different from Masonite.

Also, if you are a newbie to white gas stoves, it is a prudent idea to keep your white gas divided into two separate bottles. From the standpoint of weight, it is not a great idea. From the standpoint of reliability, it is. Occasionally a user in the field will leave a bottle cap loose and a lot leaks out. If that is your only bottle of fuel, it is a huge problem.

As a result, I would often leave home with my MSR stove packaged with one full fuel bottle, and another full fuel bottle was somewhere else in my pack.

--B.G.--

Yes 1000
(mamamia)
Coleman Fuel on 03/02/2013 16:51:15 MST Print View

good idea BG. I will carry two bottles. BTW I got some Coleman Camp fuel which was $9 a gallon. Like Jim suggested, I will filter it through a coffee filter before using it.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
my usage numbers on 03/02/2013 16:54:18 MST Print View

The conditions you mention in your original post seem similar to what I usually experience on my spring Sierra backcountry ski trips. I use an MSR Simmerlite. My cooking style is very simple - I only eat meals that are add boiling water - no simmering or anything. I light the stove once in the morning and once in the evening,melt (if needed) and boil (or just heat) what I need. With that in mind, what I have found is that if I am melting snow, I need about 3 oz per day for one person, and 4 1/2 for two (by weight). I have also found that when I find water and don't have to melt, it is indeed about half that fuel usage. This is based on a number of years of keeping track. So I would think that if your meals are similar, 4 oz per day should be a safe bet, should give you plenty. If you need to simmer or anything else, then add to that.

But what may not be relevant is summer usage, unless your meals are identical. In my case, I don't eat hot breakfasts or have many hot drinks in the summer, while I do in the snow. So my summer fuel usage would be significantly less per day than my non-melting snow usage, and thus if I doubled my summer usage I would not have enough for melting.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Coleman Fuel on 03/02/2013 17:00:35 MST Print View

"I will filter it through a coffee filter before using it."

Many years ago, I purchased a can of Coleman fuel and started to use it in two MSR stoves. Very soon later, both stoves had a severe drop-off in performance, and it seemed like a fuel flow problem. Disassembly of the stoves was conducted, and I reamed out the hard fuel delivery tube underneath the burner to find a clog in each one. The clog turned out to be melted plastic. The plastic turned out to be formed from plastic millings from the cap on the Coleman can.

So, filtering the new Coleman fuel through anything is a good idea. I do it as I pour it into my Sigg fuel bottles.

--B.G.--

Yes 1000
(mamamia)
Re: Re: Coleman Fuel on 03/02/2013 17:08:58 MST Print View

thanks BG. I can spare few minutes to filter the fuel than pay 4x the price for MSR fuel.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Coleman Fuel on 03/02/2013 17:12:04 MST Print View

I would guess that MSR fuel and Coleman fuel come out of the same tanker truck.

--B.G.--

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: How much White Gas for snow camping on 03/02/2013 22:20:08 MST Print View

Yes,

I cant PM you cause "you haven't specified a personal message address" yet


I think you have to submit an email. I have seen where people have not be able to see other's PM status. If you HAVE set up your PM's and I just can't see it- hit me up again and send you email and I'll respond directly if ya want.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Plywood? on 03/02/2013 22:49:59 MST Print View

> > "4mm plywood"
> That's not too much different from Masonite.

True, except that thin 3-ply is a lot lighter than Masonite. The 3-ply works well for me in the snow, never letting the snow underneath melt.

Cheers

Mike R
(redpoint) - F

Locale: British Columbia
be cautious ... on 03/02/2013 23:21:13 MST Print View

I camp between 4000 and 7000 feet about once a week or so. I use an MSR XGK EX. All my water is derived from melting snow. 2 weeks ago, me and two friends were camped in a snow cave at ~5500' with the XGK. We went through about 700ml of fuel during a 30 hr. period [weekend - one night] to provide water/boiling needs for three people. We also had a MSR Reactor doing a tiny bit of cooking. I was using a 2 litre MSR Titan pot with an MSR Heat Exchanger. We did all our cooking/boiling inside the snow cave and there was always an aluminum heat deflector/wind screen around the entire assembly [pot and stove]. We were backcountry skiing and thus required a fair bit of water [it's thirsty work]. I brought one 1 litre fuel bottle that contained about 887 ml of fuel. Not a huge margin of safety if we'd gotten injured or "tent bound". For your trip, I'd personally recommend having at least two 1 litre fuel bottles [~ 1.7 litres] minimum. Given that you'll be with other people, your safety margin doesn't need to be excessive.

I have zero experience with your stove in question, but this is a question that is dependent upon many things: where you'll be cooking [outside or in a tent vestibule]; type of pot; windscreen?; ambient temperatures; wind speed; altitude etc. Obviously, a windscreen should be used to reduce boil times/fuel consumption.

Always important to be cautious with fuel in the winter - no fuel - no water. At 7000' there's rarely any fuel to build a fire either.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 03/04/2013 10:43:56 MST Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/12/2013 00:20:19 MDT.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Test results on 03/04/2013 10:59:07 MST Print View

Has anybody tried heating their inverted canister with a tea candle? ( in winter of course)

It seems if you were vigilant... If it were really cold it might not even be enough?

Experts?
Normals?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Test results on 03/04/2013 14:50:20 MST Print View

> heating their inverted canister with a tea candle? ( in winter of course)
Technically feasible, and unlikely to get the canister too hot in a short period, but there is a bit of a logistics problem.

You have to juggle getting the pot on the stove, not spilling the pot by jerking the stove or the hose, arranging the canister upside down, looking after the windshield, sitting the candle under the canister, and not setting fire to anything with either the flaming stove or the candle. Can be tricky!

may I suggest sitting the canister in a bowl of cool liquid water instead? Much safer, and very effective.

Cheers

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: Test results on 03/04/2013 15:13:07 MST Print View

I have a windpro with the nifty stand that keeps it up off the ground. easy to adjust, stays in place, about 1 tea candles worth of ground clearance. :)

My windscreen is a caldera cone turned upside down so its pretty stable. (the hose goes out through the pot holder cutout)

//;ug


//yrest



I might try this candle thing. I figure since the can is constantly cooling off the candle is getting battled and therefore shouldn't overheat it, but I guess there is a temp limit. (and probably not a good idea with a FULL canister)

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: How much White Gas for snow camping on 03/04/2013 18:29:45 MST Print View

I think you'd be all right with a tea light candle. The trick is to just keep feeling the canister with your hand. If the canister feels hot to the touch, get that little candle the heck out of there. You'd want to be careful to not melt your canister stand.

Still, I would think water, as Roger suggested, would be easier to deal with. You don't have to worry about melting your canister stand; you don't have to worry about the candle melting into the snow; you don't have to worry about the candle blowing out; and you don't have to worry about overheating your canister.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving