"The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)
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Carter Hunt
(TheChamp) - F

Locale: Portland, OR
"The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/01/2013 10:45:18 MST Print View

It's here!

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-encapsil-down-belay-parka?sssdmh=dm23.153895&p=84645-0-065&src=030113_mi1&dmmid=131400942

Observations:
- Quite the price point
- Looks they are each numbered with a limited edition tag?
- No down fill numbers
- Lighter than I expected
- Made in China despite the "Ventura, CA" tag (no surprise here)
- One color choice

Who's buying one?

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Look at the other thread... on 03/01/2013 11:04:15 MST Print View

There is already a thread about the fill weight of this jacket...

Kevin Buggie
(kbuggie) - M

Locale: NW New Mexico
better way to clean it.... on 03/01/2013 11:12:22 MST Print View

I read this on Patagonia's care instructions link for the encapsil parka:

"We use a more effective and environmentally sound way to clean Encapsil down: The NexWash™ liquid carbon dioxide (CO2) process that cleans gently and thoroughly without soaps or detergents, removing oils and bacteria without the need for heat or long, energy-intensive dryer cycles...."

Do any other companies like WM, FF, etc... use cleaning technologies (like the liquid CO2 above, or other) that are vastly different from what normal people have available at the laundry mat for cleaning down?

Any insights or is Patagonia way ahead of the curve on down maintenance too?

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Some video reviews/unboxing on 03/01/2013 11:15:10 MST Print View

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HE211VR8yA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDhEOHwPP3Q

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/01/2013 11:43:59 MST Print View

$700 is obscene.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
cleaning on 03/01/2013 12:03:14 MST Print View

whats the point of something you need to send it to have "specially cleaned" ... wasnt one of the attractions of this nanotech supposed to be that the DWR was more durable than other down DWRs?

do they pay for the shipping as well as the cleaning?

i wear my EB and mammut down jackets every day in the winter to save on heating costs ... and i can wash em just fine myself ... can i do this with the $700 jacket?

dave e
(hipass) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
Re: Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/02/2013 02:19:33 MST Print View

what part of Pata-gucci do you not comprehend? :)

I really like their products and their mission -you can depend on the quality and viability of the product. I never pay retail for patagucci-i buy them on sac,ebay or thrift stores.

Edited by hipass on 03/02/2013 03:03:01 MST.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Re: Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/02/2013 16:05:07 MST Print View

Well the Patagonia Japan allotment has already sold out and I bet there will be several hundred of these seen in/around Everest base camp in the coming months.

I've seen old Golite daypacks sell on auction for more than $1000 I assume to collectors, so I don't see why folks are ragging on about the price, especially since it comes with what essentially a free lifetime service warranty over and above Patagonia's already excellent satisfaction guaranteed policy.

Being a limited 1000 piece production run, an individually numbered jacket will certainly lend itself to collector popularity. In a few years, I bet we will see posts here speculating which numbers are "best" and thus worth more due to micro details in production or what famous personality wore it. As with the Google IPO, I will wager $700 is the lowest price we will ever see for this jacket.

That said, Patagonia has already indicated they plan on pushing Encapsil into the rest of the down product line so cheaper jackets are a certainty. I hope so, since this jacket is actually too warm for the typical winter conditions I expect/want to hike in.

Actually, I hope they start making sleeping bags with this stuff too. The only question is if more reasonably priced Encapsil products will also offer free cleaning services or will they turn that into the profit center, like blades for your razor or ink for your printer.

Edited by rmjapan on 03/02/2013 16:07:35 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/02/2013 16:10:06 MST Print View

"Who's buying one?"

Me. Just because.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: Re: Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/02/2013 16:39:36 MST Print View

Obviously, serial number "111" is the best, because that stitching/ink weighs less than any other number "001" through "999".

$699 is more than you spent on your first X automobiles?

For me, X=3.

David LaRue
(Phaedrus) - F

Locale: Chicagoland
Wow - XL & L already sold-out on 03/02/2013 17:05:33 MST Print View

Wow - XL & L already sold-out

They must be in high demand.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Wow - XL & L already sold-out on 03/02/2013 17:24:38 MST Print View

In the overall scheme of things, it's actually a good deal. Whomever buys it will essentially get "free" use for as long they own it since Patagonia is essentially promising to keep it "like new" and chances are good that a limited edition that it will almost certainly hold its price in a collectors market.

I think the only value risk is if Nisley comes back with a test declaring Encapsil down to be less than claimed that goes viral on the web. Worst case then is you have a "normal" 800FP down jacket made to exacting standards with free lifetime laundry and repair services.

Edited by rmjapan on 03/02/2013 17:49:28 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
"collectors" on 03/02/2013 17:52:33 MST Print View

so how many of these "collectors" is going to use the thing to its limit daily?

or is it something one pulls out for the occasional dog trotting ;)

again ... one of the supposed attractions of this nano-down is that its more durable ... what happens if it gets washed normally?

Serge G.
(sgiachetti) - M

Locale: Boulder, CO
wow on 03/03/2013 06:13:44 MST Print View

I tried one of these on in the store today, and was super impressed. One of the nicest garments that I've seen--design, fit and finish are pretty much perfect. The baffles are fluffy and dense throughout the jacket, which makes it feel like wearing a warm sleeping bag. I don't have $700 to spend, but this jacket is good enough to make me wish I did. If you're a frequent winter climber/adventurer and planned on having this as your cold weather parka for the indefinite future, I could see justifying it. Personally, I hate washing/drying down gear. Its expensive, a pain in the ass, and easy enough to do it wrong. I'd love to have a lifetime cleaning service that came with my down gear.

I was surprised and disappointed to see they used a one way zip. I'm sure they'll get a lot of flack for this as its pretty much expected in a belay parka. My hope is that they correct this and come out with a cheaper non-limited edition next year. Supposedly patagonia is developing a 1200 fill power with the same tech. Hmmm...

Eric, I know this garment is the perfect sounding board for your anti-elitist elitism, but give it a rest. You've made your point.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: wow on 03/03/2013 06:49:40 MST Print View

Hi Serge,

How did it look compared
To the Brooks Range Mojave?

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
Keeping Things Into Perspective on 03/03/2013 06:56:32 MST Print View

RN 2009 Laboratory Measured lclo (modified)

Serge G.
(sgiachetti) - M

Locale: Boulder, CO
no comparison on 03/03/2013 07:24:29 MST Print View

Hi stephen, the patagonia is a lot loftier & a lot denser than the mojave. It feels like they packed a 30 degree sleeping bag into a a perfectly fitting upper body peice. The cut/design/finish are in a different league.

Edited by sgiachetti on 03/03/2013 07:26:08 MST.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
meh on 03/03/2013 08:21:41 MST Print View

I have nothing against this jacket or its price.

It's simply nothing that I would consider buying.
Maybe as the future unfolds, and prices come down to normal levels, I might consider it.
I've lived all my outdoor life with regular down, and it has worked out just fine.

I think a Ferrari is cool too, but I'm not going to ever buy one.

Eventually, after the hype is gone, they are going to realize that they will have to sell these things for prices people can afford.
I might consider one at that time.

Tim Drescher
(timdcy) - M

Locale: Gore Range
Re: wow on 03/03/2013 08:50:20 MST Print View

"I tried one of these on in the store today, and was super impressed."

Was hoping to do the same, but was told the only Patagonia stores that have them on-shelf are in Boulder and NYC.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: wow on 03/03/2013 09:46:45 MST Print View

Eric, I know this garment is the perfect sounding board for your anti-elitist elitism, but give it a rest. You've made your point.

if you call wondering why not being able to wash this down jacket normally "anti-elitist" ... hmmm

forget about this particular $$$$ jacket for a second

one of the main reasons about why all this nano-down is supposedly "better" than regular DWR treated down is because its more "durable"

what happens if you wash this nano-down normally? ... will all future patagucci nano-down products require you to send it back to "preserve" the DWR?

Edited by bearbreeder on 03/03/2013 09:47:31 MST.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Re: Re: wow on 03/03/2013 10:27:03 MST Print View

Eric,

That's a legit concern about durability and washing and hopefully we'll see some answers about that in the coming weeks.

I think it was just a bit overshadowed by your typical bias against higher cost gear. I think it could have went without saying that this jacket is expensive - we can all see that, and we've moved past it already. Value, however, is a more personal thing and can't be preached.

Fortunately for my wallet I have no need for such a warm jacket. The high fill power down has my interest though for the future of sleeping bags.

Edited by 7sport on 03/03/2013 10:28:49 MST.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Re: wow on 03/03/2013 13:06:43 MST Print View

"I was surprised and disappointed to see they used a one way zip. I'm sure they'll get a lot of flack for this as its pretty much expected in a belay parka."

Hey Serge,

Check out this pic from a catalog that just showed up in the mail. Interesting that the production unit didn't keep the zipper shown here. I agree, poor choice on their part.

Pata

It's absent from the list of jacket features on the following page as well

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Double zipper explanation on 03/03/2013 14:13:30 MST Print View

Casey Shaw explains why they didn't use a double zipper in the latest "The Cleanest Line" blog post....

I've been testing the hell out of this piece in the backwoods around Boulder/RMNP/and some days out in the Wasatch.

The shell is surprisingly durable (although I have actually had 1 down cluster leak, so far)- my bad for asserting it was the 15 denier in the UL hoody- I didn't think Patagonia would outsource and start using Pertex (naive of me).

Those who have worn I can also assert that it is probably the "most puffy" jacket around. It's so chock full of down, that the baffles are firm, similar to a temperpedic foam, but MUCH lighter.

Note: it has an integrated stuff sack. Mine did not come with a cord lock though- Serge, do the ones in store have em ?

The hood is retardedly puffy and very effective at protecting the face.

It's a pretty epic piece for sub 25 degree temps. Worth the $700? Probably not- is it going to "raise the bar" on Dry Down? Absolutely- it already has.

The minute this stuff makes its way into sleeping bags, it's going to be game over for a lot of manufacturers.

Eric, with all due respect, I think your points about the jacketing being washed regularly is rather moot. Non-DWR down shouldn't be washed more than twice a year anyway- if Patagonia is willing to clean your jacket (for free), it mitigates a lot of the negatives about down. I also wear my down jackets in my home to offset heating costs- I soon learned that a 200 wt fleece (or cotton hoody) is just as effective, more durable and A LOT easier to clean.

So in the summer months, when the Encapsil Down Belay Parka would be overkill (unless mountaineering)- it makes sense to have a program to that allows folks to get their down washed in the off season for free (more manufacturers ought do this, btw).

I have to pay MHW $25 plus shipping to have my Phantom 32 bag washed.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Sleeping Bag Price on 03/03/2013 14:35:42 MST Print View

I think it wll be a long time before the price of this tech comes into sleeping bags. You are right now looking at double the cost of current downfill bags. So where most useful in winter bags you would be looking $1200 bags (double what current 0F bags cost). Even for summer bags they would probably be in the 700 range.

So probably 3 to 5 years before this will only be a 20 to 30% premium on regular bags.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Great point, Greg on 03/03/2013 14:52:01 MST Print View

Greg, great point. I totally disregarded how much down is used to fill these bags... My bad

Edited by persianpunisher on 03/03/2013 15:20:36 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: no comparison on 03/03/2013 15:41:19 MST Print View

Cheers for that Serge :-)

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
""The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/03/2013 17:02:25 MST Print View

I agree with Tom Lyon's comment, "Eventually, after the hype is gone, they are going to realize that they will have to sell these things for prices people can afford." The $700 price tag is aimed at a very elite group. Most people simply don't have the coin to drop that much on a jacket.

I don't get the "limited edition" thing. It's a coat. It's either going to be a closet queen for people who want it to retain full value, or it'll get used. I would not pay a premium to have a "limited edition" coat, because I use mine.

I agree with Eric on the cleaning. "Free" or not (nothing's free- it's built into the price) it would be a PITA to have to send that back once or twice a year and wait for them to clean it and return it. Shoot, I avoid purchasing "dry clean only" items. No way am I going to buy something that has to be cleaned at the factory.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: ""The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/03/2013 17:20:13 MST Print View

Yeah, shipping it off and actually having to wait is just sooo inconvenient. I mean how can any self-respecting dirtbagger imagine actually having to take 5min out their Summer climbing/hiking to find a phone and call Patagonia and request service, wait for UPS driver to show up at your van and hand them the coat, wait another 2-3 weeks for Patagonia to fix all the little holes, lube the zips and get all that high tec down nice and lofty again, and return the jacket like new to base camp. Afterall any REAL dirtbagger is out peak bagging 24/7 in Summer to make the most of those above freezing temps. Whatta waste since all this time the jacket could have been safe and unused stuffed in the pack. The horror....

Edited by rmjapan on 03/03/2013 18:35:33 MST.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: ""The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/03/2013 18:02:31 MST Print View

I was freaked out the first couple of times I used the first puffy I ever got, with its thin shell and gossamer feel to it. And that only set me back $130.

I eventually realized that it was just a jacket, that it would hold up just fine if I wasn't totally careless with it, and that it probably performed nearly as well as any other more expensive jackets.

Oohh, I sound like eric.. ;)


Oh, and I'm still using that jacket... and can wash it myself.

Edited by T.L. on 03/03/2013 18:03:23 MST.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Re: Re: Re: ""The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/03/2013 18:29:51 MST Print View

Isn't complaining that you have to ship it away to be washed just like complaining that you have to careful with a neoair so you don't puncture it?

We buy gear based on a set of criteria to meet our needs and sacrifices we can live with. So if you are doing lots of hiking and climbing in frigid conditions where loss of loft from sweat is a big issue for you than this jacket has a solution. It has a draw back of needing to be sent away to be washed but really this jacket is a seasonal piece or a trip specific piece so finding a month to not use it shouldn't be too hard.

So complain about the price tag if anything but the real question before complaining is do you have a use for this piece? Are you consistently seeing loft loss in down pieces for use below 0F? Are you looking to look cool wearing the most expensive down jacket you can find? If you do not fall into one of these to categories this jacket really isn't targeted at you.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/03/2013 19:34:40 MST Print View

I dont care if that coat puts out on the first date. No way I'm spending $700 (which is a lot to me) on softgoods.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
shipping ;) on 03/03/2013 21:23:14 MST Print View

well the question isnt about the "problem" of shipping it in ... but what will happen with the with other nano-down pieces that will come out ...

will we have to ship those in as well, and will they be premium pieces as a result ... or will they be stuff you can wash regularly

we all know DWR will wear off with shells ... now it likely wont wear out as fast with down ... but the big differences is that you CANT reapply this nano coating yourself, unlike DWR with shells

will you be able to wash future nano-down pieces regularly? ... if so how "fast" will they degrade? ....

since you CANT reapply it right now ... what happens as it wears out, how long does it take, does it become a normal 800 fill jacket then, etc ...

like i said FORGET ABOUT THIS JACKET ... the more important question is this nano-down degradation ;)

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Help! My Encapsil down gets wet on 03/03/2013 22:09:07 MST Print View

"Patagonia Ironclad Guarantee

If you are not satisfied with one of our products at the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform to your satisfaction, you may return it to us for a repair, replacement or refund. Damage due to wear and tear will be repaired at a reasonable charge."

Works for me.

Edited by rmjapan on 03/04/2013 00:51:16 MST.

Martin RJ Carpenter
(MartinCarpenter) - F
Treatment Durability on 03/04/2013 04:59:18 MST Print View

How and what fails it not washed, precisely when it needs washing (still two times a year even if just sitting about?) etc really are quite important to ask.

If it does require specalist washing twice a year regardless than no chance that the tech will ever scale to any degree. It would also represent a pretty offensive use of resources compared to normal down!

Of course its only the water resistance which could be worth it here. The claimed loft really isn't anything especially special (900fp European down already out there) and won't be saving more than ~25g overall vs merely good down anyway.

At least, unlike quite a few treated down things, its box walled and has a proofed outer. Sane :)

William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
Re: Treatment Durability on 03/04/2013 06:08:46 MST Print View

I don't think that Patagonia is recommending washing twice a year as standard. They seem to be saying twice a year as maximum.
"We strongly recommend infrequent cleaning of any down product (and certainly not more than
twice a year) to ensure that your garment has a long, effective life."

Martin RJ Carpenter
(MartinCarpenter) - F
Fair enough on 03/04/2013 07:54:13 MST Print View

Seems I was maybe slightly confused cf the washing :)

Having checked it almost appears as if they're worried about detergents etc masking the down treatment. Which is a little odd as surely people buying something like this would know not to do that? My impression was that most people got at least sleeping bags cleaned for them anyway.

Comforting that they reckon they use less energy than home drying even with shipping. (due to tumble dryer use.). We'll see.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Treatment Durability on 03/04/2013 12:23:03 MST Print View

I must say it's a beautiful looking jacket, but I won't be saving for one. I would rarely use something THAT warm, and having to ship it to and from NZ for cleaning would be a deal-breaker even if I could use something that warm. However, if I lived or hiked in much colder climes, and lived in an area where shipping wasn't too bad, I would be tempted...

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
""The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/04/2013 13:45:04 MST Print View

"Isn't complaining that you have to ship it away to be washed just like complaining that you have to careful with a neoair so you don't puncture it?"

No. We're not discussing the durability of the product. We're discussing cleaning, which is a basic maintenance issue. And it's not complaining- it's a valid feedback that some of us see the requirement of factory cleaning to be a deal breaker even if the price point wasn't already too high. I own exactly 1 piece of gear that has to be returned to the factory for maintenance and that is my McMurdo FastFind PLB that has a factory installed battery. It wasn't a dealbreaker for me because the battery requires changing only once every 5 years and I anticipate that at the point the battery actually requires changing the technology behind PLB's will have come so much further that I will opt to buy a new unit rather than replace the battery in what will probably be considered a dinosaur.

It's just feedback. What works for me may not work for you and vice-versa. I see differing points of view as being a good thing, personally.

Brian Abram
(boglins)

Locale: The South
Sold out on 03/04/2013 17:18:56 MST Print View

So the jacket is sold out. Some of the arguing at this point might be a bit misplaced. Can someone like Goose Feet make basically a 900fp standard down clone at a similar or reduced weight? Maybe without the snow skirt or chest pocket but using the baffling, neck draft collar, and apparent overfill that the Encapsil has?

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Sold out on 03/04/2013 17:45:33 MST Print View

Well there is the Montbell USA Mirage. Not as warm with only half the fill, but also nearly half the weight and more appropriate for the typical winter temps expected by most hikers/trekkers. Strange they did not offer it Japan first.

With the sellout of the Encapsil, we will now see the REAL BETA testing begin.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Gooses Feet on 03/04/2013 19:22:01 MST Print View

Brian,

Gooses Feet will be using Downtek dwr down soon.

ROBERT TANGEN
(RobertM2S) - M

Locale: Lake Tahoe
Patagonia explains Patagonia on 03/04/2013 21:12:38 MST Print View

Part of P-Gucci’s explanation: http://www.thecleanestline.com/2013/03/the-patagonia-encapsil-down-belay-parka-an-origin-story.html
“Perhaps the biggest design accomplishment of the jacket is its 100% independently baffled construction. That is to say, at no place on the entire parka does a single stitch extend from the exterior shell all the way through to the inside lining. This guarantees that none of those specially treated feathers are going to shift to some place that they shouldn’t and thus compromise the jacket’s uniformity of insulation. The functional improvements continue from there: double draft tubes bookend the main zipper, large front pockets (cut big enough to fit gloved hands) are positioned above the harness line, carefully split baffles around the pockets and zippers maintain uniformity of fill without adding extra bulk, meticulously laid out baffles of varying widths running through traditional compression areas (i.e. under your arms and around your shoulders) ensure equal warmth everywhere, a micro snow skirt with hideaway drawcord seals the waistline, inside stash pockets positioned on the side panels as opposed to industry standard of up front placement, and a hood that fits snug with or without a helmet. The design crew also considered what not to include. There is no fuzzy fleece lining in the pockets or at the top of the front zipper. “That stuff may feel nice at first but it is just a sponge for moisture and ends up hurting you in the long run in real alpine conditions,” says Shaw, who has more than three decades of serious climbing experience to his credit. Then there is the omission of a split end front zipper, something which would traditionally be found on a belay parka so as to allow access to your harness while keeping most of your jacket zipped up. The double-ender was left out because they are more likely to break and because the slim profile of the Encapsil Parka allows it to more easily be tucked inside of a harness and rope set-up. “I'm sure we are going hear about that,” says Shaw. “Some people feel really strongly about those zippers.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
"The Finest Down Parka I'll Never Own" on 03/04/2013 21:55:10 MST Print View

It looks like an absolutely beautifully crafted winter jacket that I would absolutely love to own...

...but likely never will.

My wife is a wonderfully generous and kind woman but I would completely deserve the a$$ kicking I'd get if I went out and bought this right now. And honestly, I think I'd get an ulcer trying wear a jacket this expensive anyway.

To those of you that can afford/justify this sort of thing without getting panic attacks, I have one word:

Enjoy!

Martin RJ Carpenter
(MartinCarpenter) - F
Independently baffled construction? on 03/05/2013 07:32:12 MST Print View

How does that differ from a normal box wall construction? Essentially no penetrating seams involved there. Marketing I guess :) A good thing to have of course.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Independently baffled construction? on 03/05/2013 07:59:58 MST Print View

I should buy one and rent it it out for $70 a month.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Independently baffled construction? on 03/05/2013 12:55:00 MST Print View

"How does that differ from a normal box wall construction? Essentially no penetrating seams involved there. Marketing I guess :) A good thing to have of course."

Well spotted. I have the PHD designs Yukon jacket, and it is very well constructed, including fully baffled. The DWR on it is the best I have come across too. It is also lighter and cheaper. Sure, it's only 900fp, and the down is not treated in any way, but because the DWR is so good, I have never had a problem with it wetting out. You can also remove the hood, which is how I use it most of the time, and that makes it even lighter. No problem washing it at home if and when I feel the need!

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=110&products_id=159

David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
"The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/05/2013 18:37:25 MST Print View

I commend Patagonia for making an effort and investing the dollars to produce technical gear. They could just as easily spend their time only on gear to wear to Peet's Coffee.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia)" on 03/06/2013 01:09:14 MST Print View

I got to see it today at the Patagonia Shibuya store here. Last one left in Japan, size S #0856. Apparently only 4 stores in the world got samples. The online pics really don't do it justice. Workmanship is impeccable with lots of small detail. Fit my wife perfectly too but at JPY84000 she would rather have handbag!

Encapsil Belay Parka

Edited by rmjapan on 03/06/2013 03:33:19 MST.

Martin RJ Carpenter
(MartinCarpenter) - F
Yukon on 03/06/2013 05:12:49 MST Print View

The yukon is actually quite a close comparison point to this in some ways - the treated outer fabrics (actually more than DWRs in both cases), basically equal down fill (900 EU is essentially the same as this), box wall and ball park weight etc.

Different emphasis design wise of course - especially hood wise.

The question which actually interests me is what happens if you put down like this behind a waterproof shell as per Crux's plasma. Would it then be functional as an fairly well all conditions belay jacket? That could change things a little.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
It's too warm on 03/06/2013 08:11:33 MST Print View

That's the main problem with this parka - too warm

If you're in the arctic or climbing Denali or some Himalayan peak, fine, but anything that almost any of us would do, it's over-kill

You don't want a too warm parka, because you'll sweat.

In 900 FP, it might weigh 1 ounce more. If you're paying several hundred dollars to save 1 ounce, then you have too much money.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
Start Saving your Dollars on 03/06/2013 09:59:36 MST Print View

Hi Ken,
Thanks for your interest in our Encapsil. It was met with such popularity and excitement that it's currently sold out completely. We do not have plans to offer a second or third edition at this time, but I'm sure that we will at some point in the near future. Please check back. Also, we will be offering our Hi Loft Down, Down Sweater and Ultralight Down Jackets with a very high quality 800 -fill power European Goose Down.

I hope that helps and let us know if you need anything else. Have a nice day!

Thank you, Megan
Patagonia Customer Service

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: It's too warm on 03/06/2013 10:32:58 MST Print View

"That's the main problem with this parka - too warm

If you're in the arctic or climbing Denali or some Himalayan peak, fine, but anything that almost any of us would do, it's over-kill"


If you're out on a cold, windy, -20F New Hampshire night, you won't complain about it being too warm. South Carolina, yes, but not necessarily in New England.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Exceeding my expectations on 03/06/2013 19:39:28 MST Print View

The more I use this jacket, the more I am impressed by it. A few more observations:

- The "neck" is CHOCKED full of down, similar to the EB Peak XV jacket's "turtle neck"

- Articulated arms DO NOT ride up, at all

- The hood is HUGE

- Pertex and DWR sheds water like no other- water actually beaded up when it was raining… but this was only for a few minutes- it was SO damn warm that I had to come back inside.

- This thing is SUPER puffy

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Exceeding my expectations on 03/06/2013 20:35:03 MST Print View

I admit I was not initially impressed with the retro styling or color but now after having seen it and touched it I have a different opinion.

I like how the inside stash pockets sit further back on the hips to supposedly still let you see your feet when they are chock full. The stuff sack storage in the right stash pocket is unique too I thought. Suprisingly long hem as well.

Amazing they got all this into a jacket that still just weighs about the same as my Rab Infinity Endurance size XL (525g) that uses the same fabrics.

Now if I were to speculate on the Encapsil coveted numbers I would guess;

0888- lucky for our Confucian friends
0777- lucky for our Western friends
0711- for the dice lovers
0666- for the Satanic cultist
0405- my B-day
0331- wife's B-day
0007- for all us Bonds, James Bond
0001- for the early adopter
1000- nah, na, nanna, nah

Andrew Manies
(amanies)

Locale: SF Bay Area
Underwhelmingly underfilled on 03/06/2013 21:03:00 MST Print View

I hate to be the naysayer about this jacket, but the one I received and tried on (after a day of letting it loft) has some noticeably under-filled chambers of down when inspected in bright sunlight. The two chambers are located on the right hip and right chest, and appear to be filled less than half as full as most of the other chambers. The arms of this jacket, however, are absolutely stuffed with down, and the articulation seems to be brilliantly designed. All of the other design features of the jacket appear to be outstanding, and the materials and weight are remarkable.

Still, for the price, one would expect each chamber to be properly filled with down. I seriously doubt that is has anywhere near 10 oz of down, as per Richard's calculations. Richard, may I ask where you obtained that figure?

My overall impression is of a beautifully designed and detailed jacket that would have been perfect, were it not for some quality control issues (likely during assembly) in China.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Wow… Ditto on 03/06/2013 23:25:27 MST Print View

Well, it appears that mine too also seems to have the same under filled baffles: the bottom front right baffle, above your right pant pocket and the right chest (right where the pockets are).

Interesting….I haven't really noticed any performance issues though- and I have worn it to -5F with just a Merino T as a base layer .

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Wow… Ditto on 03/06/2013 23:40:28 MST Print View

Geez the fill on my $30 JCP is nice and even. Jab, jab, backslap :p

Matthew Hoskin
(mattgugel)

Locale: Kanangra-Boyd NP
Re: Exceeding my expectations on 03/07/2013 00:00:01 MST Print View

Babak, somwhow I feel you side with Patagonia???????.
No trolling intended, but who spends that amount on a down jacket????????????
ludicrous to pay more that$400 for a baffled parka.
I paid $800 to have Polar Bear pants sewn, so compare.
Marketing hype. Nice parka - wayyyyyy too expensive

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
EAT THE RICH! on 03/07/2013 00:31:15 MST Print View

"what happens if you wash this nano-down normally? ... will all future patagucci nano-down products require you to send it back to "preserve" the DWR?"

Now Eric.....

It is kinda tough if you're in Nepal, Alaska, PATAGONIA, Antartica, Greenland, or other outposts where it might be COLD. And what do you wear while your puffy is at the cleaners?

But you're just being anti-elitest ;)

I find it very interesting to hear the bragging on the stitching and stable down compartmentlization and then easing reports from two owners that there is uneven fill. OOPS! Ring.... Ring.... QC?

I'm also perplexed by the zippers and lack of tailored features that would normally be found in a garment of this class. For $700 it better pour me a dry Maritini and wipe my nose!

Fine for the lodge at Aspen, but not for living out of a backpack and sleeping on dirt. EAT THE RICH :)

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Re: Exceeding my expectations on 03/07/2013 01:04:01 MST Print View

Oh, so perhaps now is the appropriate time to shed light on how I acquired this jacket….

In January, I googled "Encapsil down jacket" and a listing on for "Patagonia Encapsil Down Belay Jacket" Altrec popped up as the top result.

I quickly went to Patagonia.com to chat with LiveHelp and tried to learn more about the jacket. All I they could tell me was that it was coming out in March. I asked if anyone else there knew anything about it and later chatted with someone who was their for the unveiling of the jacket. he told me it was made with 1000fp down, $699 in paintbrush red and only in limited quantity. He then sent me an image of the jacket and asked if I wanted to purchase one. I was shocked, I didnt think he was serious, so I looked around for a gift card I had lost in my room a few months ago (I still beat myself up over it). Alas, no gift card. I chatted back in and purchased the jacket on my CC (with the intention of reviewing the jacket [with the tags] and then returning it).

My card was charged, I received a tracking # and I received my jacket the next week (still mid January). I then posted about this jacket on BPL which was then later taken down.

I paid for the jacket, and reviewed it, and them my post was taken down. I was then contacted by RJ who got me in touch with some (rather senior) folks at Patagonia, who asked me to refrain from posting about the jacket and later offered to refund me for the jacket in exchange for not wearing it in public or publishing any reviews until after the jacket was released. I took my YouTube videos off line until 3/1.

Is this jacket worth $700?- I don't think so, but then again, people pay FAR MORE for FAR LESS INNOVATIVE garments (I have family who work in haute couture, and I find that stuff absurdly overpriced and obscene- with no innovative textiles or designs).

I also don't pay retail for really any of my gear (although, I did pay FULL RETAIL for a Patagonia Hooded Down Sweater and found it worth every penny, until it was stolen…)

I am a huge proponent of support in US manufactured goods, and it bums me out to see this jacket made in China. I think at this price point, consumers would be MUCH happier to pay an extra $100 for a US manufactured garment.

Dylan Fish
(Dylanthropist)

Locale: Moon
ThePatagoniaBreach, coming to a theater near you. on 03/07/2013 02:30:04 MST Print View

Babak, I'ts mind boggling that the person you spoke to on the live chat thought it was alright to sell you Patagonia's "secret weapon", you would think it would be locked away from the employees in a "highly classified" locker. Haha. Any idea what made him spill the beans?

What a surreal story. Enjoy your "free" jacket while I try and stop drooling:)

Martin RJ Carpenter
(MartinCarpenter) - F
'Uneven' down distribution on 03/07/2013 04:46:21 MST Print View

Isn't that relatively likely to be deliberate? I know that its one thing that say PHD do and I have a vague impression that its relatively common when people are taking real care.

There's certain places where you just don't need as much fill so you put less there etc. It might only be noticeably visible in a couple of places but it probably varies in quite a few.

Obviously it costs money upfront in design and manufacture but for this price they certainly should be able to afford that......

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: 'Uneven' down distribution on 03/07/2013 05:35:09 MST Print View

It is likely that the same worker filled the two jackets mention in this thread. It may be that those areas were harder to access in the process, of the line foreman was being nasty that day and the worker got even. Stranger yet, it made it by QC.

It doesn't make sense that the right side is different from the left. Ifcyouvtold me it was symmetrically lighter under the arms, I could see it as a design feature. It sounds flaky to me.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: ThePatagoniaBreach on 03/07/2013 05:48:57 MST Print View

The jacket had to be in the computer system and assigned a SKU number in a web based sales organization like that. Perhaps it was assigned some sort of VIP status that the salesperson could override or access. Savvy salespeople know their inventory and that jacket had to stand out like a sore thumb. Maybe they had a memo or a meeting and talked it up. Or somebody screwed up and put the item online before the official release date, or maybe it wasn't a screwup.

I see a big ticket item, a commission and a hungry salesperson all in the same place. If the organization is too number oriented, some sales folk (and/or their managers) will do funny things to make big numbers. Been there and had to clean up the messes.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: "The Finest Down Parka Ever" (Patagonia) on 03/07/2013 06:45:04 MST Print View

Meh.

George Costanza was rocking "The Finest Down Parka Ever' long before Babak, or anyone for that matter.

puff

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Exceeding my expectations on 03/07/2013 08:51:19 MST Print View

So you didn't have to pay for it Babak?

How funny. Nice way to take advantage of opportunity in mindless beauracracy.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Things like this happen often on 03/07/2013 09:19:40 MST Print View

I college worked for several retailers- one of which being backcountry.com (where I was a LiveHelp gear head) and I can tell you that there is A LOT lost in communication between the higher ups and the sales folks.

I actually chatted with 3 different sales people who all confirmed that the jacket was "for sale" in their system but didn't have any more information other than the color, price and that it was made with "special 1000FP down".

My guess: Patagonia kept this so under wraps that they didn't tell the sales folk st the bottom all of the details (big mistake IMO) and that SOMEONE ELSE made it "live" in their inventory.

Also part of my deal with Patagonia was to assure me that no one was fired from their company as a result of this- I have their written assurance in an email. It's the employee's fault- I blame the company for "keeping everyone in the dark".

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
right side on 03/07/2013 11:04:46 MST Print View

obviously the right side of the highly skilled alpinists for which this jacket is meant for has more natural body fat than the left side ... and as such requires less insulation ...

thats what happens when you live on an alpine marmot diet ...

it has to be a design feature because there is no way that a top notch manufacturer would have quality control issues on their 700$ flagship uber down parka .... not joking ...

but then um just being elitist ;)

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: right side on 03/07/2013 12:24:41 MST Print View

"but then um just being elitist..."

Kidding aside, I did some searches on the Patagonia site and was surprised to see how many $500 and $600 items they make. The jump to $700 is just an increment. I've been mucking around in the proletarian $100-$200 stuff and thought that was spendy!

Where this gets me is that there are people in dire straights, let alone groups like Scouts that could outfit a bunch of kids for what these jackets cost. And I do think the feature set is more fashion than function. Poor old Henry Thoreau is sittin' on a cloud and shaking his head, thinking, "I warned you about this in 1854!"

Mike R
(redpoint) - F

Locale: British Columbia
Re: Re: Exceeding my expectations on 03/07/2013 15:04:09 MST Print View

"Babak, somwhow I feel you side with Patagonia???????.
No trolling intended, but who spends that amount on a down jacket????????????
ludicrous to pay more that$400 for a baffled parka.
I paid $800 to have Polar Bear pants sewn, so compare.
Marketing hype. Nice parka - wayyyyyy too expensive"

Sure it's expensive, but so are other super warm down jackets. The Feathered Friends Rock & Ice parka is almost $150 more. I have no idea how they compare warmth wise. Fact is, high quality outdoor weather protection designed for extremes is expensive. Don't even consider looking at what a MUSTO offshore sailing jacket costs. That said, I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of belaying going on in this jacket. I think most of these jackets will end-up on urbanites walking around Manhattan, Vancouver, Vail, Whistler etc. not on people pushing the limits on big mountains. Most of the professional climbers and skiers only wear this stuff b/c it's given to them so that Patagonia can say - "hey Steve House wears our gear..." The true cost is associated with the exclusiveness of this jacket, the serial numbers, the new technology, the 1000 FP claims.

Patagonia didn't pump big cash into this jacket to just make it once. They'll probably have Encapsil tech in all their down garments by 2014.

...And if you guys think Patagonia is expensive, look at Arc'teryx. Many of their insulated jackets exceed the price of Patagonia's Encapsil and they use synthetic ins.

Edited by redpoint on 03/07/2013 15:11:13 MST.

Adam Klagsbrun
(klags) - MLife

Locale: Northeast US
Great story, where's the real life review? on 09/17/2013 15:41:44 MDT Print View

I just read all the posts and threads about the jacket. Now how about some performance reviews or field reviews? Seem people are more interested in balking at the price... We aren't all rich here, but $700 to have a garment "like new" for the rest of your life sounds like a bargain to me. I see clothes regularly priced at $700 every day in stores. Shit most jeans you see on TV cost about $250 these days. Judgements aside, why would you attack Babek about what he spent here? That's bad form. You come across as petty and jealous, at best. People are at different income levels. Let's try not to get into pissing matches about that and keep the posts about what matters - performance. Of which I found... NONE. Is there a review on the site that I haven't seen? And no I don't mean the unboxing video...

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Great story, where's the real life review? on 09/17/2013 16:29:22 MDT Print View

No review on bpl yet, but outdoorgearlab has one, its also sold out in most sizes.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
collectors item on 09/17/2013 16:39:22 MDT Print View

its a "collectors item" ... it should be sitting in the closet being used for the occasional dawg walking for most of the purchasers i would imagine

i assume theyve fixed the issue with the uneven filling

;)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
For Eric Chan ;o) on 09/17/2013 16:45:36 MDT Print View

There is a saying Eric,

"To be exclusive one must exclude."

I guess that applies in spades to the Patagucci $700. down jacket. It sure as hell excludes me since I just spent more than twice that for a competition rifle scope. I'm SO broke now that I even use coupons when shopping for groceries and THAT is humiliating for a manly and masculine man such as moi.

david delabaere
(davidvcd) - M

Locale: Northern VA
Found one on 01/03/2014 15:38:25 MST Print View

Okay, so my local outdoor store has one.
What everyone said about it at first touch is spot on.
I am impressed at how freaking solid it feels, the down won't compress without effort.
I felt like going to sleep like I was in a cocoon.
It fits me perfectly and I could layer a softshell underneath.

The bad news, it fits me, it's number 337 (okay so it lacks a 1), I have about 3/5 of the price in store gift cards whih I can get at a slight discount through the local outdoors organisation if I want more, and if I ever got itI'd be afraid of using (got trips planned in the alps and maybe the adirondacks in the next few months, so please tell me it wouldn't be useful there !).

For that steep a price, I'd have to view the patagonia satisfaction guarantee and warranty as well as the free washing as insurance.