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First <15 lb. Base Weight
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Randy Martin
(randalmartin) - F

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Re: A few more ideas on 02/21/2013 14:48:06 MST Print View

"How well would an Exped Schnozzel work as a pillow?"

Not well for me. I tried it and found the material is too slick unfortunately.

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Exped Air Pillow UL? on 02/21/2013 19:36:55 MST Print View

"Not well for me. I tried it and found the material is too slick unfortunately."

That's what I was wondering. Thanks.

The Cocoon UL pillow I have is no good - my head keeps rolling off the side.

I might order an Exped Air Pillow UL online. Do these cause your head to roll like other air-filled pillows?

Edited by FightingTheTide on 02/21/2013 20:34:36 MST.

Jake D
(JakeDatc) - F

Locale: Bristol,RI
Re: Exped Air Pillow UL? on 02/21/2013 22:54:37 MST Print View

Not for me.. it is higher on the edges than the middle so you stay pretty well. I don't inflate it all the way so when i lay down it squishes down in the middle anyway.

if i'm not wearing all of my shirts i'll put one over the top just to have a nicer feel to it.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re on 02/22/2013 06:50:52 MST Print View

The ul exped pillow is awesome

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Exped Air Pillow UL? on 02/22/2013 06:52:41 MST Print View

Good stuff. I ordered a large. Hope it's not overkill.

I'm fine adding a little weight to sleep better.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re on 02/22/2013 07:28:11 MST Print View

Michael, could you use the Exped pillow for a sit pad as well?

Some of these small inflatables are beefy enough, some aren't.

Ben Wiles
(benjita) - MLife

Locale: Annandale, VA
murky water on 02/22/2013 07:47:47 MST Print View

filter water through coffee filters then treat with Aqua M.

Edited by benjita on 02/22/2013 16:50:59 MST.

Jake D
(JakeDatc) - F

Locale: Bristol,RI
Re: Re: Re on 02/22/2013 07:48:43 MST Print View

I would not use the exped as a sit pad. i think the small chunk of Z-rest is fine if you need such a thing. in not winter a 12x12 piece of tyvek to keep your pants dry would probably be enough.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Exped pillow/seat on 02/22/2013 14:32:10 MST Print View

Got a reply from Exped. Here's what they had to say about using the UL pillow as a camp seat:

"Thank you for your email and for thinking Exped! The AirPillow UL can certainly be used as a sit pad, but there are a couple things to take into consideration when doing so:

-The shell fabric of this pillow is an ultralight 20 denier. As with our UL mats, I would definitely not suggest placing it directly on the ground or slab of rock during use. Any thorns or abrasion against gritty rocks or rough ground has the potential to cause harm to the fabric, and you'd be much better off wrapping a shirt around the pillow or sitting on some sort of ground cloth.

-Our UL products have a 250 lb weight limit. Even if you are well below this level, sudden instances of increased pressure has the ability to cause damage to the internal welds of the pillow. For example, when you first drop down onto the pillow after a long day on the trail, you want to be careful to lower yourself onto the pillow lightly. Collapsing onto it, as you would you couch at home, can certainly cause an instant of high strain, and potential weld damage.

-The pillow is contoured to fit any number or sleeping positions, both on your side and on your back. Because of this, the surface of the pillow is not completely flat, as our sit pad is. For increased comfort while using the pillow as a seat, I would suggest releasing about 1/4 of the pressure, thus allowing the surface to flatten out a bit."

wt on 02/22/2013 20:16:47 MST Print View

The scnozzle pumpbag is also a pack liner save 2.3 oz
or use nylofume and save 1.2 oz

ditch the pillow save 2.6
lighter spoon, save 0.2
ditch pot grabber, use bandana or such - 0.4
neckwarmer 1.2
one pr spare socks, 1.3
use photon freedom, extra batteries = 0.5 oz, save 1.7 oz
much less toothpaste, save 1.5oz

easy 11.2 oz or so. About 3/4 lb.

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: wt on 02/22/2013 20:39:44 MST Print View

I'm traveling right now but plan on posting an updated list once I get home and have a chance to weigh a few pieces and cut a few things down.

This is good stuff.

Realistically, I'll probably keep the pillow so I can sleep better. That's worth the 2-3 oz for me. But most of the other suggestions given will probably be used.

Randy Cain
(bagboy) - MLife

Locale: Palmdale, CA
Bronners on 02/23/2013 23:59:42 MST Print View

The only thing I EVER use to brush with (at home as well as on trail) is Dr Bronners soap, BUT......get the Unscented Baby stuff. The others I've tried definitely have a funky taste, but the unscented has hardly any taste at all. Bear researchers in Alaska found that Grizzlies LOVE the peppermint Bronners, so other bears might as well. That's another reason I love the unscented stuff. I can use it for washing my body, mouth, pots, whatever. So I like the multipurpose nature of it.

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Bear Bags on 02/25/2013 08:48:39 MST Print View

I'll have to check out the baby bronner's soap...might be the ticket.

Question on bear bag/rope:

I have 40' of 1.9mm Tech Line (Dynema, 480 lb. breaking strength @ 0.018 oz/ft.). It's pretty slick, so I figure it will slide well across a branch, but is it still too thin (will it cut into branches)? My other option is 50' of PMI Utility Cord (3 oz. total). It's definitely thick enough, but too heavy IMO.

And would 0.9 oz/yd(sq) noseeum mesh be strong enough to make a bag that could hold 6-7 lbs? Or should I just stick to 1.4 oz silnylon?

I know there are other fabrics that might be stronger/lighter than these, but I'd like to work with what I already own for the time being.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Bear Bags on 02/25/2013 11:32:29 MST Print View

"Or should I just stick to 1.4 oz silnylon?"

I think the silnylon would be best. For one thing, it is more rainproof. I recommend using a dark color since that is harder for the animal to see at night.


Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Headlamps vs. Handheld Lights on 02/25/2013 17:15:06 MST Print View

"I think the silnylon would be best. For one thing, it is more rainproof. I recommend using a dark color since that is harder for the animal to see at night."


Any suggestion on a lightweight headlamp? All of the ones carried at major retailers are 2.75 oz or more. A keychain light isn't going to cut it for me.

Here's a 73 lumen light that weighs 0.9 oz.
How inconvenient would it be to use a handheld light instead of a headlamp? I'm not hiking at night, but I like being hands-free for cooking dinner and putting a bear bag up past sunset.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Headlamps vs. Handheld Lights on 02/25/2013 17:51:55 MST Print View

There is a lot of discussion about flashlights versus headlamps, but it is difficult to search for here. Most of us purchase a headlamp, but then we use it half as a headlamp and half in hand as a flashlight. For you Brits and Aussies, that would be a hand torch.

You can purchase a flashlight but then stick it into an elastic headband, but it is a bit easier to just purchase a headlamp in the first place since it already has some sort of headband with it. On the other hand, many headlamp bands are too heavy, so some of us replace the factory headband with something lighter in weight. Personally, I took an old Croakies neoprene band to my headlamp and saved some weight.

Before you try to purchase a headlamp or a flashlight, you need to establish your priorities. It might mean getting the lowest weight, or the lowest cost, or the brightest light, or something else. You might start by establishing the lumens of light power that you require, like 73 or 100 lumens or whatever. Basically, for camp chores, you only need 25 or 50 at most. For night trail hiking, you might want 50 or more. For spotting wildlife at night, you might want 100 or more. You also want to establish whether you want more of a flood light pattern or a spot/beam. You want to establish your requirement for battery life. For example, you might need it to go 10 hours at 50 lumens, or whatever. You want to establish which battery type you want to use, like 2xAAA, or 1xAA, or 123, primary or rechargeable. Often that decision is made to be like the other electrical devices use so that you can swap batteries or spares as necessary, but it doesn't have to be. Nearly everything needs to be LED, not incandescent.

I've been very happy with my Zebralight. I can click the button to get a low light power and long battery life, or I can click it to get medium power and medium life, or I can click it to get high power and shorter life. That seems to appeal to lots of backpackers, but it costs a few bucks more money. Mine ended up below 2 ounces with strap and battery.


Jason Mahler
(jrmahler) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Photon on 02/25/2013 17:54:11 MST Print View

I personally like my ~3oz headlamp, great beam and we sometimes hike at night. If you are only doing camp chores, then a photon may be all that you need. They weigh 7 grams and come in all kinds of beam colors. They work pretty well overall and spare batteries weigh very little.

Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Headlamps vs. Handheld Lights on 02/25/2013 18:53:15 MST Print View

Thanks for the details Bob!

I took the elastic headband off my headlamp and replaced it with some shock cord. I also replaced the rechargeable batteries with Lithium batteries. It went from 2.6 oz to 1.8 oz.

I'm not sure how many lumens it has. There are three modes - bright, solid red, and flashing red. It works great around camp, but I could use something brighter if I were to hike at night. However, that's not in my plans any time soon, so this will suffice.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Headlamps vs. Handheld Lights on 02/25/2013 19:15:21 MST Print View

"I took the elastic headband off my headlamp and replaced it with some shock cord. I also replaced the rechargeable batteries with Lithium batteries. It went from 2.6 oz to 1.8 oz."

Yes, that is the right idea.

If you use ordinary shock cord, you might find it to be uncomfortable after a while since it might dig into your skin. There are some flatter elastic cords and straps that work pretty good. Most of the time we don't need all of those fancy buckles and slides.

Yes, lithium primary batteries are a good choice for many people. They have three to four times the energy density as an ordinary alkaline battery, but they are lighter in weight, have much better shelf life, and operate at much colder temperatures. The bad news is that they are pricey, and when they finally run low on power, they tend to go completely dead in a hurry.


Tyler Miller
(FightingTheTide) - F

Locale: Southeast
Final check on 02/25/2013 19:48:07 MST Print View

Okay, one more check before I buy my pack - which won't be for another month or so. As it is, I feel like I've trimmed as much as I can without sacrificing too much comfort.

A few notes:

-This doesn't include water bottles. I'll grab some gatorades from a gas station, or something like that.
-I plan on trimming my Flash 45: maybe remove the lid (if not needed), the bladder sleeve, and maybe trim a few of the straps.
-I plan on trimming up my bivy to take off a ~1-2 ounces.
-My tarp isn't finished, so this is an estimate.
-I don't have rain pants yet...still not sure if I need them.
-I'm sticking with the Sawyer Squeeze for now until I can get more comfortable on the trail. The time and fiddle factor of Aquamira are keeping me from switching...for now.
-Another option for water: I have some iodine tablets w/ taste neutralizer tablets, weighing 2.2 oz stock.

I'm content with this for a winter pack, but does anyone see anything else I could do to drop a little more weight? I need it to be either free or cheap.

Winter List v3

Edited by FightingTheTide on 02/25/2013 19:51:35 MST.