I don't feel the least bit of remorse using the gift option here. I sell quite a bit on eBay as well, and they take almost 10%, and PayPal gets its 4% for the transaction as well. PayPal is owned by eBay, so they get you coming and going.

I too have purchased and sold many items here so far on the forum (with way more purchasing lol) and so far have had excellent experiences. The members here do what any good seller would do, they describe the items accurately, communicate with the buyer, provide a tracking number, and follow up after the item is delivered.

Last but not least, in my experience, 99% of the people that backpack, hike, etc have a very high level of ethics and morality, more so than the average joe. I don't believe that is the issue here with using the gift option.

you know.. what we've got here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj60OAh7O5U

Stealing... Always makes ur point worthless...

...............

Edited by mj451at2 on 02/07/2013 16:37:48 MST.

Um....

Did I miss something?? I've bought from Konrad (my brother loves the shirt, by the way...), I've bought from a ton of people here. I need to sell soooo much stuff, but that's another conversation.

What is wrong with PayPal gift?? Why does Paypal make it so easy to use if it's "stealing" from them? I can just as easily use my bank to pay someone electronically without a fee...what's the big deal??

If I don't like the terms of an item, I can ask the seller to consider something else, or I move on. Goodness gracious.

So much anger here...

Edited by rcaffin on 02/07/2013 19:58:53 MST.

Hi MJ,

What is your definition of stealing?

If you go to the paypal website, https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees, they specify 3 classes of fees associated with what you are doing. Buying is always free, sending money to friends and family is usually free, and selling something costs 2.9%.

What if you are selling your sleeping bag to your brother (family) who lives far away? Which do you choose? What if you are sending money to an someone you just met? Are they a friend? What if you are bad at choosing friends who turn out to be dishonest, but are good at picking honest strangers to deal with? The point is that friendship is a subjective notion. You can even have friends who don't consider you a friend.

Paypal is a smart business institution and chose their classifications deliberately--in fact, in a way that empowers the consumer. I get to choose who my friends are. They know people do this. And in fact, they couldn't tell you, in court or otherwise, whether or not Konrad and I are BFF, which makes creating a rational policy based off the definition of a friend worthless.

Konrad isn't being dishonest, but selling an item by terms he feels comfortable with (and is being completely EXPLICIT). Tell me how is that dishonest?

On a side note, there seem to be a number of posts where people (yes, this includes you MJ) don't get that this isn't some anonymous internet forum. People have histories here. didn't Ken Thompson just organize a meet-up? Konrad has been around; he is bpl tested and ryan jordan approved.

For example, I don't comment often but I do buy and sell. Why? Because I like to try new gear, even if that means fiddling with it in my front yard in the horrid flatness that we call Chicago. Here at bpl.com, that is just fine.

This is an open community where many types are tolerated (see bearbreeder, whose snarkiness brings a smile to my face everytime I visit). It's up to you what kind of member you want to be.


Mike

Edited by rcaffin on 02/07/2013 19:57:44 MST.

Hhahahahhhahahhahahahahhhahahahhhahahhhahhahhaha,

Nice MJ, I can always trust you to keep things classy. I don't have anything more to add to this convo, I think your own words say enough already about your character.

Yours words do to!!! And I can always count on you to rip off Pay Pal... :)Your words say a lot about ur character too brother... Oh... My bad... You were going to decieve Pay Pal... Oops, save me money... Thanks tho...

PayPal is a bank and earn money off the float, right?

I think they are probably pretty happy to have a bunch of backpackers using their site to buy and sell stuff (over and over) as long as the balances are worth it. I bet some of us maintain decent balances.

And don't they make it kind of inconvenient to turn a PayPal balance into cash?

I heard he speeds too...what a bad dude...

whoa, whoa...

Brendan, you never told me that Konrad speeds.

MJ 2016!!!

If you buy the twinkies...I will waive the PayPal fees....happy?

Edited by onthecouchagain on 02/07/2013 20:24:25 MST.

...of someone needing to prove they are indeed better than someone else. Unless I know everything about their lives, relationships, work etc, there is no way I would say A is a better, more honest person than B.
I guess it is so very human to constantly keep tab on where we and others stand .
Ha, gotcha! I am better than you!!

MJ,

I am calling you on this. Konrad has been participating on these forums for years with many of those posts involved in more than simply buying or selling gear on here. Konrad has participated on the forums for years and posted over 1800 times and always has tried to enrich the community here on BPL. How dare you impinge on his integrity without at minimum questioning him privately. Instead you filled this forum with an attack on a great-standing member of the BPL community.

In the last 6 months you have posted on BPL 52 times, or in other words you have only participated in the BPL community at a rate of 17% as frequently as Konrad. Additionally almost 83% of your posts have had to do with buying or selling items, 13.4% of your posts have been attacking either individuals or websites such as BPL or White Blaze. Finally less that 4% of your posts have actually involved the trade of information and in your case it was simply asking for others to provide information to you.

I did not have the time or desire to read all of Konrad's posts today but I have read many of them in the past. I have never once read anything negative about another member from him. I am sure he is not perfect but I have the greatest respect for him and his views.

As my final measuring stick to compare you to Konrad and your overall usefulness to this community is that Konrad has offered PIF's on this board. While they are in no means a requirement for participation it says something about someone that is willing to give stuff away to other members.

I have bought many things off these forum pages and to the best of my memory never purchased from him I would not hesitate to do so in the future. His name is good in my book. In fact in my time on these pages and purchasing items I have never once had a problem.

MJ, I think you need to mind your manners better. Shame on you.

The problem with being the self-designated moral authority on anything, is that to be credible, you then have to be the moral authority on everything. Otherwise it's really nothing more than hypocritical whining. Or rather public self-centeredness.

That's not unusual, of course. Many folks seem to feel that everyone should live by their moral code - which, no doubt, has loopholes that are okay with them.

The mature moralist simply lives, as much as possible, by his or her own moral code without worrying about how others are living their lives when it comes to such insignificant matters, such as paypal fees.

I'm not perfect, by a long shot, but I'm getting a whole lot better about not wasting the exceptionally small amount of time I have in this life getting wound up by the small stuff.

After reading John's post above I deduced two things:

1) Don't cross John because he will narrow down your demeanor with percentages.

2) MJ - You're an A S S !

eBay and Paypal don't pay the correct tax MJ....how's that for ethics and morality?

If you feel it is a moral/ethical problem, don't buy them. You can buy new ones at REI.

If PayPal thinks it is a problem, they will tighten the restrictions. They are fully aware of how it is being used.

Any we are just building PayPal's brand by discussing it -- so if you dislike PayPal, quit posting; you are just helping the grow.

I like PayPal a lot. It is very convenient for me. I actually prefer to do business with a company that accepts PayPal. I can buy stuff via my phone much easier with PayPal than any other method I know of.

MJ:

I am at a loss. Where is the stealing?

Paypal is the one giving users a choice:

1. Pay 3% and enjoy Paypal's protection program.
2. Or don't pay 3% and Paypal withdraws the protection (and the cost that goes with it)

Konrad prefers the choice more advantageous to him, the seller -- and built it into his sale offer. You may not like the terms of his offer, but that doesn't make him a thief! If you want to buy but you feel uncomfortable doing so without Paypal's protection -- then feel free to offer an extra 3% and Paypal it through as a purchase rather than a gift. This should work with all sellers, and not just Konrad.

A sale can be structured any number of ways. The important thing is that the terms be made clear upfront. And I believe Konrad has done just that. Don't you?

Edited by ben2world on 02/07/2013 19:20:36 MST.

Thanks Ben...
That is exactly how I see it.
The 3% is an insurance fee.
Like any insurance it is meant to cover pay-outs and make a profit.
No insurance ? no cover, no stealing involved...
I have bought and sold with and without.
I would not buy without from a business but privately it is my call if I can trust or not the other party.
Disturbs me how so easily people brand others dishonest for no good reason at all apart from not seeing things the same way.

I hope the thread gets deleted.

I have no problem buying with the gift request here on BPL. If I have a bad transaction I will just go all Charlie Wenzel on the guy. Google it. He was a guy who ripped off an internet buyer over on pirate 4x4. His life was never the same. Even his parents and girlfriend were included in the retribution. All done over the internet. So infamous that "wenzeled" is even in the urban dictionary. :)))))))) Some fun reading.
http://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=wenzeled+pirate4x4&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=mVsUUfKIGqK6igLaw4DgDA

Edited by mtnrat on 02/07/2013 19:04:15 MST.