Montbell Plasma 1000
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Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Montbell Plasma 1000 on 02/02/2013 21:09:37 MST Print View

377


Wow. You've gotta hold this jacket to believe it. It's 5.2-ounce down sweater, stuffed full of 1,000-fill down, and wrapped in a 7-denier ripstop fabric. That's the highest quality down we've ever seen, so lofty we would have been skeptical without seeing it for ourselves stacked next to its 800- and 900-fill competition. Montbell won't say where the down comes from, but it has magically appeared in a down sweater that was light enough to be held aloft by a balloon in the company's booth, and light enough that when dropped, it does not fall. It drifts downward. $269.

Source:http://www.gearinstitute.com/best-in-class/item/best-of-outdoor-retailer-awards

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Montbell Plasma 1000 on 02/02/2013 22:22:00 MST Print View

Wild.

The baffles are very unique.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Montbell Plasma 1000 on 02/02/2013 22:27:43 MST Print View

Montbell is stealthy

How many oz down? 2.2 or whatever like the UL series?

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
Whoa on 02/03/2013 11:04:47 MST Print View

That's amazing, but, I have to admit, as much as I have an aversion to anything trendy, I would be more impressed, and more tempted to buy it, if it contained water resistant down. It makes me cringe to say it, but we were all thinking it.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Whoa on 02/03/2013 11:25:40 MST Print View

No interest in the hydrophobic down on my end. I'm more interested in stupid light for extremely arid, but brisk, conditions.

masculine ├╝ber linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
down percentage on 02/03/2013 15:12:03 MST Print View

How much of the 5.2 oz is down?

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Montbell Plasma 1000 on 02/03/2013 16:11:54 MST Print View

Nice. Me likey. Too much money new, but hopefully someone throws a slightly used one out in Gear Swap! XL please.

Ryan

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
It used "special down" on 02/04/2013 14:54:47 MST Print View

Methinks it uses the Encapsil stuff by Patagonia...

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
Down on 02/04/2013 15:01:30 MST Print View

Babak, I assume you're joking.

Edited by ckrusor on 02/04/2013 19:16:20 MST.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Ha, yes on 02/05/2013 15:13:03 MST Print View

Yea, I was certainly joking..

josh wagner
(StainlessSteel) - F
crazy on 02/05/2013 15:46:40 MST Print View

that thing looks pretty dope. the balloon clothes hanger is solid...

Craig Delger
(cdelger)
Montbell Plasma - things to consider on 02/05/2013 16:11:40 MST Print View

I am on my way out the door so I will keep this short. They don't state how much down is in the jacket, but the Plasma most likely has 1.6 ounces of what they quote as 1000 power fill down.

Our position is that 1000 fill down doesn't really exist in practicality.

In order to get a 1000 fill rating the down is measured in zero percent humidity, and the down has to be fluffed with warm air.

The instant it comes in contact with something humid... like your skin it loses loft and loses its 1000 power fill rating.

The Plasma uses a 7x7 fabric(7 denier with 7 ripstop), weighs 5.2 ounces and cost $269.

The Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket uses 1.8 ounces of 900 fill down, uses a 7x10 fabric(7 denier with 10 ripstop), weighs 5.6 ounces, and costs $189.

In ProLiteGear.com's opinion, the Montbell Plasma is a marketing piece, the Extremely Light Down Jacket is a better option.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
fill on 02/05/2013 16:27:16 MST Print View

Ryan Jordan
( ryan - BPL STAFF - M)

Locale:
Greater Yellowstone

NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

Bill et al.,

I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.


http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=39920

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
Fabric on 02/05/2013 16:31:35 MST Print View

Craig, thanks for that. It does seem that the Plasma and the Ex Light are essentially equivalent, and the much higher price tag of the Plasma is hard to justify.

Also, this isn't important, but a fabric that is described as 7 x 7 has 7 denier yarns in the warp and 7 denier yarns in the fill (or "weft"). I don't know what "7 ripstop" would mean (it isn't ripstop if the "ripstop" yarns are the same size as the rest of the yarns).

Craig Delger
(cdelger)
Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 16:31:39 MST Print View

Ryan - we agree 100%!!!!

Thank you for confronting "marketing" with the real world. :)

Craig
ProLiteGear.com

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 17:27:16 MST Print View

What Ryan and Craig are missing is the POSSIBILITY that the MB Plasma's 1000 FP is achieved by the AeonClad Technology, or similar, process rather than non-sustainable conditioning. The scheduled March 2013 release of the 1000 FP Patagonia Belay jacket will be the first customer shipments of this technology, except for Babak's early version (smile). Until these jackets are independently lab tested for clo-value at various moisture levels, manufactures and pundits claims are just that.

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: Re: Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 17:33:10 MST Print View

Hey Richard,
We know from your testing that down maintains its full warmth when compressed to a certain point. Does that hold true for down that is "compressed" due to loft lost from moisture? Or is that totally different from compression?

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Re: Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 17:43:38 MST Print View

It is totally different.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 18:50:44 MST Print View

one would think that if this was DWR down, montbell would be advertising it to the wazooos ...

or maybe those japanese dont understand marketing ;)

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Re: Montbell Plasma - nice reply on 02/05/2013 22:16:23 MST Print View

I wonder how they get 1000 FP without the AeonCloud coating?

Are they just killing geese by the handful to get the few, "primo" 1000FP feathers?