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Help with winter layering
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Tjaard Breeuwer
(Tjaard) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota, USA
Help with winter layering on 01/28/2013 19:56:04 MST Print View

Hi,
I am trying to decide which upper body layering system to take on an upcoming winter trip to the BWCA in Minnesota.

Conditions:

Daytime temps between -5F (-20C) and 32 F (0C). Average 20F (-7C).
Skiing at a relaxed pace on lakes, short stretches of wooded, hilly, crossings from lake to lake.
Camping with hot tent, so long term moisture retention is not a problem, but of course, day time flash off is.

Baselayer: Brynje wool mesh zip neck.

Outer layer: Cioch Direct Nikwax Analogy jacket. The Cioch jacket is the same fabric as Paramo, so it is essentially a windshirt with a heavyweight baselayer attached as far a insulation/breathability is concerned, think warmer Marmot Driclime. The jacket has a full zip and pit zips for venting.

Resting insulation layer: Mont Bell Alpine down jacket

So the question is which mid layer to use:

Pata Capilene 4 Hoody:
Pros:
very breathable, very comfy, both under the jacket and on it's own at night in the tent or in the sleeping bag.
Very breezy, so if I get a little warm, opening up the zips on my shell will really help.
Cons:
if it is quite warm the Pata is to breezy to wear on it's own if there is any kind of wind.

Beyond custom thin softshell jacket.
Lightly brushed Schoeller fabric on the chest and front of arms, thinnest stretch Schoeller on the rest, similar to the Rab Boreas, but slightly warmer in front.
Pros:
Differential fabrics, keeping my front warmer (often a chilled area).
If I get to warm, just drop the Cioch jacket.
Cons:
Reduced venting effect from opening my shell's zippers..
Far less comfy, wouldn't enjoy wearing it in the tent, would not wear it at night.

Edited by Tjaard on 01/29/2013 07:05:24 MST.

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
do you need a mid-layer on 01/28/2013 20:35:33 MST Print View

the cioch sounds like an outer and mid-layer combined. on teh move at a moderate pace i don't think you will need the mid-layer. if you want to go a little warmer, ditch you base layer and sub in teh cap4.

Edited by RICKO on 01/28/2013 20:36:16 MST.

Michael B
(mbenvenuto) - F

Locale: Vermont
jackets on 01/28/2013 20:37:09 MST Print View

I would only bring the beyond fleece softshell if you were planning on that being your main outer layer for skiing. Otherwise, if you plan to ski in the cioch jacket, having a true midlayer makes a lot more sense. You probably won't need the capilene 4 mid layer for skiing, but if you do that will add a lot of warmth under the cioch jacket. Hard to know how cold those lakes will really be, but seems like a enough for skiing, even skiing "easy".

Tjaard Breeuwer
(Tjaard) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota, USA
Re: jackets on 01/28/2013 21:46:06 MST Print View

I would only bring the beyond fleece softshell if you were planning on that being your main outer layer for skiing.

I won't bring just the thin Beyond softshell. It is too tight to layer under, lacks a hood and is not windproof enough so not suitable for cold weather (~<5F), nor is it water resistant for wet precip in warmer weather.

I only started thinking about it after reading the posts by Ryan J and others using the RAB Boreas with a windshell on top.

Otherwise, if you plan to ski in the cioch jacket, having a true midlayer makes a lot more sense. You probably won't need the capilene 4 mid layer for skiing, but if you do that will add a lot of warmth under the cioch jacket. Hard to know how cold those lakes will really be, but seems like a enough for skiing, even skiing "easy".

When it's below 5F(-12C) or so, depending on wind, it starts to be a bit chilly in just the Cioch and baselayer, at least at a casual pace.

Ricko, That's a great idea, to wear the Cap 4 as a baselayer in cold but not arctic weather!

Edited by Tjaard on 01/28/2013 21:57:37 MST.

Tjaard Breeuwer
(Tjaard) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota, USA
Post trip on 02/26/2013 11:09:45 MST Print View

As recommended by people here, I used the Brynje Mesh -Cap4 - Cioch jacket combo.

I found that I can wear the jacket over the mesh shirt in quite warm weather, by opening the front and the pit-zips fully.

I was worried before hand that the mesh shirt would be to 'breezy' to ski in, but it's actually fine as long as there is no wind.

For lighter trips in moderate conditions (no daytime temps below 0F), I might just bring the Brynje Mesh shirt and Cioch, in mild conditions I could just wear the Cioch on it's own, it's quite comfy against the skin.

Edited by Tjaard on 02/26/2013 11:13:01 MST.

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
going light and staying comfortable on 02/26/2013 12:04:17 MST Print View

glad to hear you found a clothing combo that worked for you. i'm a big fan of dressing light and trying to stay comfortable/cool in (truly) cold weather when on the move. sound like you've also made some solid steps to figuring out what works for you in a variety of conditions. the more you try your system out, the more comfortable you will be in making gear decisions and lightening your load.

Edited by RICKO on 02/26/2013 12:25:17 MST.