Forum Index » GEAR » Alcohol Stove Users Only


Display Avatars Sort By:
Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Alcohol Stove Users Only on 01/22/2013 20:30:28 MST Print View

Alcohol in the yellow bottle (HEET) is not only for stoves.

<center>

</center>

Watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vGYUSw-azQ

Edited by zelph on 01/22/2013 20:32:29 MST.

James Reilly
(zippymorocco)

Locale: Montana
wild on 01/22/2013 21:19:20 MST Print View

I have never seen those before. Pretty wild. Thanks for sharing.

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Alcohol Stove Users Only on 01/23/2013 05:23:02 MST Print View

I totally want one. Someone needs to make these again .

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Alcohol Stove Users Only on 01/23/2013 06:55:43 MST Print View

They are amazing. Who would have though a specific metal in contact with alcohol vapor and air would react into fire. I have collected several ever since I saw them on candlepowerforums. Totally cool little lighter for alcohol stoves. Same fuel, why not. HEET in the yellow bottle is the correct fuel.I think I'll get one out today and play. I'll see if I can get the vapors in a Fancee Feest stove to ignite using the ignitor part of the lighter. How cool that would be if it lights it up.

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Dies on 01/23/2013 20:55:33 MST Print View

Zelph - I take it the dies for forming the double wall can are meant to nest together. Is that for easy removal of the can? Why are there two centers? Different inner walls?

I have got to get my lathe up and running.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Dies on 01/23/2013 21:17:55 MST Print View

Nathan, are you refering to the Fancee Feest or the cigar lighter?

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Re: Dies on 01/23/2013 21:42:06 MST Print View

The pix of the dies I found thumbing to the left from the lighter pix. They show a beer can turned into a double wall with insulation inside.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Dies on 01/23/2013 22:07:42 MST Print View

Those were experimental. Had to revise them. I have so many photos it takes me hours to find some that I used years ago on projects. All the photos I have have been used in threads on differnt forums over the years.

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Can we make one today? on 01/24/2013 18:17:32 MST Print View

Does anyone know how these things work? The best I could find on the web was this page:

http://www.toledo-bend.com/VCL/articles/index.asp?request=catalytic

It appears that platinum reacts with methanol and produces formaldehyde and heat. If you have enough surface area close enough together you produce enough heat to ignite the methanol. It looks like these have a small ball of very thin platinum wire that produces the reaction. The ball seems to be suspended on more fine filaments of platinum wire which are strung between a brass frame. Not sure but I am guessing if the ball touches the brass directly that would dissipate the heat to quickly to cause combustion. It seems like with little (very expensive) platinum wire these would be pretty easy to make.

It looks like the antique lighters run $100-200. Depending on how much platinum they have in them, it might actually be a decent deal.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Can we make one today? on 01/24/2013 18:57:44 MST Print View

Ben, it was an interesting read where you linked us to...thanks. Here is part of what I read there:


How Catalytic Lighters Work
All catalytic lighters are variations of a simple theme - the catalytic process discovered by Johann Wolfgang Döbereiner circa 1823. There is an absorbent material inside the lighter that holds the fuel - methanol (alcohol). There were different brands of this through the years; it may be substituted today using the automotive product Heet, which is primarily methanol. The lighter also uses a little platinum as the "lighter mechanism". Platinum is very resistant to corrosion,which is why many catalytic lighters may still be useable today. On contact with methyl alcohol vapor the platinum acts as a catalyst to convert the vapor into formaldehyde and, in the process, gets very hot. In turn, the heat lights the methanol vapors and starts a flame. In the picture you can see the wires glowing from the heat generated by the platinum ball - in turn starting the flame.

First, the lighter is filled with fuel, allowed to "soak in" briefly, the excess poured back into the fuel container (according to the more frugal directions of the day) or simply pored out.

The platinum catalytic process has been used in lighters a very long time and in many guises. Pocket hand warmers have also used this technology. Lighters such as the Lektrolite also used a platinum piece to work on the alcohol vapors and produce the heat reaction. Other, far older, lighters used a "platinum sponge" - a small ball of fine platinum wires (on the order of steel wool), to the same end.


Over the years I have collected a few "new in the box" lighters. I think I might let loose of one or two. I need some new equipment;-)

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Re: Re: Can we make one today? on 01/25/2013 09:28:20 MST Print View

Zelph,

Was it able to directly light your fancy feast stove? I don't see why it shouldn't be able to.

Also, do you think you could take a close up photo of the catalyst? I am trying to see if I am missing anything. That fact that these are still working 50+ years after they were made, tells me it is a pretty simple design.

I am thinking of sticking a little ball of platinum wire in the end of a small garolite or carbon fiber tube. If you could get it to ignite a fancy fest stove consistently with less than $10 worth of platinum there is probably a pretty good market for it. How much platinum is needed is the real question mark for me.

I can see it now... I have a $0.50 stove with a $50 lighter designed only to light that stove. But for the weight and simplicity, I think backpackers would buy them.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Fancee Feest is somewhere on 01/25/2013 11:06:55 MST Print View

I'm still looking for my fancee Feest :-)))

The platinum wires are approx. 1" long.

Photobucket

Edited by zelph on 01/25/2013 11:39:03 MST.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Link repaired on 01/25/2013 11:41:00 MST Print View

The photobucket link has been fixed for the above photo.

Edited by zelph on 01/25/2013 11:41:39 MST.

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Re: Fancee Feest is somewhere on 01/25/2013 12:00:57 MST Print View

I see 4 support wires and the little ball, so maybe 6 inches or so of wire. It probably contains somewhere around $10-30 worth of platinum wire. I question whether I fully understand how the catalyst is arranged. It seems to me the little ball should be up at the top of the lighter instead of down at the base. It is possible I don't fully understand how the support filaments are used in this arrangement... Where is Dave Thomas when you need him?

For some reason I am getting excited about this... I went and bought some 0.003" laboratory surplus platinum thermocouple wire I found on ebay for $1.75/inch. I don't even have an alcohol stove! I have to go and get a can of fancy feast.....

Gregory Stein
(tauneutrino) - F

Locale: Upper Galilee
the wire is sold out on 01/25/2013 16:34:07 MST Print View

It looks like it's sold out on ebay. Any other source for thin platinum wire? Maybe some electronic parts?

Gregory Stein
(tauneutrino) - F

Locale: Upper Galilee
Platinized Titanium Anode 2"x3" on 01/25/2013 16:44:49 MST Print View

This might be more effective as it has greater area of contact: http://www.amazon.com/Platinized-Titanium-Anode-2-x3/dp/B0050F2WS8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_5

$34

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Re: Platinized Titanium Anode 2"x3" on 01/25/2013 17:16:40 MST Print View

I bought the last 10 inches from the ebay listing... sorry :( They have some 0.005" stuff for $2.50/inch.

That anode certainly might be a better deal. I wonder how the plating will hold up to the heat from the catalyst reaction?

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Platinized Titanium Anode 2"x3" on 01/25/2013 17:42:59 MST Print View

I think you should have gotten the .003 or the .002

If I were to experiment I would get the .002

Ben, was it pure 100 percent platinum or was it an alloy that you purchased?

I was able to get a small custom Fancee Feest style stove to ignite with the ignitor. Still have not found my full size FF.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Platinized Titanium Anode 2"x3" on 01/26/2013 12:07:58 MST Print View

At the link below you'll find some nice closeup photos of the ignitor.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?169625-quot-The-logical-successor-to-the-flint-lighter-quot

steven franchuk
(Surf) - M
Re: Re: Platinized Titanium Anode 2"x3" on 01/26/2013 13:23:56 MST Print View

The titanium anode probably wouldn't work well. It probably has to much thermal mass and as a result might not get hot enough to ignite the fuel. multiple thine wires have enough surface area and the wire will get very hot very fast due to it's low thermal mass.

Omega does sell platinum thermocouple wire for about $2 per inch. They sell it alloyed with 6%, 13%, or 30% Rhodium. The 6% wire is available in 0.002" diameter while the 13% is available in 0.001" wire. I don't know if the 30% wire would work but I suspect the 6% would.