It seems clear from the smoke trails off the fins that the fins sapped heat out of as-yet-uncombusted gasses which then condensed on the can. In a jetboil, the gas is all burned before it gets to the fins, or at least is not cooled enough to prevent full combustion. I think you definitely do not want the fins in the flame.

One thing I've thought about is how in the jetboil burner there is a screen which gets white hot. I think this screen may serve to ensure any poorly mixed or cooler gasses do reach ignition conditions. I wonder if such a device would help pressurized stoves light more easily - my biggest beef with the penny. I'll be trying tonight...

Complete burning of the fuel is the first step to efficiency, followed by transference to the pot/water.

The smoke trails on the finned cans are from the burned aluminum duct tape adhesive.

Will definitely try fins higher up, out of the alcohol flames. Will try one with fins at an angle and another with fins vertical.

I think I have the right pot with many ridges on it that could muster up lots of turbulance with the gases traveling upward between the windscreen and the pot. Take a look:

photobucket video, click on it.
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I was able to do a video today to kinda recap how I can use the windscreen in the wood, alcohol and esbit modes. I had to divide the video into 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sVimCy5Rmg (1st part)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7Rz59l9eA

The windscreen held up very well under the high heat of the wood fires. The stainless steel clips did also as did the three pot support extensions.

Tomorrow I'll do some tests with Esbitmizer in the alcohol mode to see how well it does with 1/2 ounce of fuel. I'll also do more wood burning with the windscreen to test an idea that I have for an integrated clip system to keep the screen closed so I can eliminate the stainless clips. I'm partial to the Keep it Sublimely Simple principle of John D.

John, I'm always glad to share ideas. Stove designing is really an interesting hobby and science. Stoves are fun. I saw some of my photos of how I roasted hot dogs using the Venom Super Stove. I wrapped some hot dogs with non stick aluminum foil and stuck them into the center of the stove and lit it. The flames went up the side of the foiled hot dogs and they roasted really nice using 1/2 ounce of fuel.

I'm on the right track ;)

Edited by zelph on 01/22/2013 18:27:34 MST.

"non stick aluminum foil"

What the heck is that? Or, where do you get it?

I've never seen anything called that.

--B.G.--

Bob, your local grocery store should have it. Ask an associate for help.

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"Ask an associate for help."

Can't do it, Dan.

I am fluent only in English. They aren't.

--B.G.--

Zelph - I like the ribs. I bought some nylon sliding shower door wheels with bearings today to make a bead roller. Two flats and one rounded. Will post if they work. The video with the peen-beanie everyone refers to looks ok, but I wanted something I could expand to making my own rolled edges. It would be keen to double roll a new edge instead of needing a machined ring, no?

Still waiting for Ti foil to arrive. Cutting up a turkey pan for tonight's lab work.

Has anyone tried to re-form polyethylene containers? I'm looking to stretch out a ziplock screw top to accommodate a full length fosters pot.

Bob, wing it!!! or you're SOL

Nathan, get the wheels rollin and go for it. Everybody and their uncle wants to make the ridges. Local grocery stores have nice plastic containers for full size foster cans. Look in the canning section for Kosher Pickling Salt or in the cleaning supply dept. for mr Clean or Klorox wipes.

Nathan,

I haven't tried re-forming polyethylene. However, 16 oz and 8 oz "Delitainers" (available through Amazon or at your local deli) press fit very snugly and securely to the 1 qt Ziploc food containers. Light and inexpensive too.

The question came up on another forum on how to have a small wood fire on snow or ice and wet ground. What would I use to insulate under the stove.

I've never had to do this so I gave it some thought and decided I would first gather some 1" diameter branches of 12" long and lay them flat on the above the surfaces to make as flat a surface for the stove as I could. I would then lay down a 1/8" sheet of Viton onto the branches to form a stable surfac On top of the viton I woul lay a sheet of .002 Titanium or stainless steel. On top of the aI would put my wood burner.

I did one test burn of the above procedure and it worked well. The Viton scorched but did not burn. It warped in the center but flattened when it cooled. The stove I used had a steel grate 1/2" away from the stainless sheet thet the stove rested on. I burned enough wood in the stove equivelant in quantity to boil 6-8 cups of water.

What would you use under the same scenario of winter wood stove use?

I don't think I would bother with the Viton layer.
If you insist, substitute teflon/glass canveyor fabric.

Cheers

...one can see why Caldera Cones work so very well.

Very enlightening discussion. Explains JetBoil and Primus pot-bottom fins too.

Dan,

For an insulating base, I like your idea of wood interspaced with Ti. If you have sheets of Ti laying around.

But if not, I've had good luck just building a thick base of wood - much as you describe: 1" diameter-ish lengths, but layer upon layer at right angles to each other.

When I built campfires on top of such a base (actually 2+" diameter sticks), they were still burning the next morning. A foot deeper into the 10-foot snow base, but still burning.

Bob Gross you were right. I changed my mind and will protect the can with the windscreen ;-)

I've also decided to move my 1/2" holes up 3/8". They have a little pucker at the bottoms edge. Also my closure for the windscreen is going to be a fixed band that will allow me to keep it nice and simple. It will help to keep the windscreens' shape in the "round" It will be fastened to the screen with an eyelet.

DavidT. I had some 5" wide by 3/16" thick fiberglass cloth that I cut to 10 long. I then sprayed the cut ends with high temperature stove paint to prevent unravelling. worked good.

I've completed my windscreen design. I've created a grate out of Ti and stainless steel. The windscreen is designed to stay within a 1/4" of the pot when in the alcohol mode and in the wood mode it is 3/8" from the pot. In the wood mode the Foster pot will sit on top of the "V" shaped stainless steel pot support. Much larger diameter pots can be placed on the 3 large pot supports that are integrated into the design of the windscreen.

I'll use the modified StarLyte burner when in the alcohol mode and the Esbitmizer when I want to use esbit.

The 2 piece grate stores nicely under the bottom of the pot. They are held there with a plastic lid for storage.

The pot that you see in the photo is for maximim strength and water capacity when used in the wood burning mode. (My preference) I like burning wood. I have a tyvek stuff sack for storing everything.

The windscreen never has to be disassembled. It fits snugly up against the pot. When you burn wood it makes no sense to want to put your windscreen inside your pot.

I'll get more photos and specifications posted here tomorrow.

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The Titanium windscreen/stove, grate system, V shaped pot support, plastic retainer ring, Foster 3 cup Flat Bottom pot and Tyvek stuff sack weigh in at 2.8 ounces/ 79 grams

Fire box size is 4" diameter x 3.5" high

6-8 inch diameter pots are supported on the 3 extending pot supports. Those pot supports can be seen in one of the above videos.

Tomorrow I'll show the windscreen, alcohol stove, esbit stove and pot support in a video.

What we have here is a wood burning stove, 3 cup pot and stuff sack. Watch the video.

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Everything revolved around the Ti Windscreen and so I gathered up items to include in a kitchen.

Choice of Foster pot with lids
Combination Titanium Windscreen
Modified StarLyte burner with lid for ultimate alcohol efficiency.
Esbitmizer for use with esbit. Has simmer ability.
Esbit cubes and alcohol fuel bottle.
Grate set-up and "V" shaped pot support for windscreen in wood burning mode.
Stainless steel pot support for alcohol and esbit burning mode.
Silicone pot grabber.
Tyvek stuff sack.

Photobucket video

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Wow Zelph,

That's one sweet setup!!!! And impressive weight too. What's the cost?

One question I've wanted to ask about the flat-bottom pots: Are they as durable as stock cans? I was concerned about the weld/joint being a weak spot.

Thanks,
Todd

Thank you Todd, glad you like it. It is evolving very nicely. I'm taking my time, making sure everything is tested well. I moved the 1/2" holes upward a tad so now I have to redo my tests in all modes.

The flat bottoms on the Fosters are just like "factory" sealed and are guaranteed to be as durable as stock cans. If one should fail for some reason, send it back for a replacement or full refund.

The Titanium Windscreen design is better than the Caldera Cone. It's under no tension, ready to go once taken out of the stuff sack. Will not spring out and bite you;-)No assembly or disassembly. The grate system is lighter. One of the things that BobG pointed out is why use the Foster Pot to protect the titanium windscreen. He's absolutely right. Store it outside the pot. Calder Cones are always depicted as storing in the pot. If the windscreen/wood stove is used in the fire mode I don't want it stored in the pot.

This kit will be used in the wood fire mode. I'm big on wood fires. Alcohol and esbit as back-ups.

I had to make a change in the grate. didn't like the 2 pieces. Then I had to add a storage container for the grate.

How do you like it so far?

Photobucket video. Click on it to view

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Edited by zelph on 02/02/2013 21:08:36 MST.