So more and more I am reading about hikers buying bug nets for their MLD DuoMid from companies other than MLD.


This makes me scratch my head and wonder, "what in the heck is it that people do not like about the InnerNet??"



Been wondering this for months and I keep meaning to post this... but I just did not want to cause any kind of flamewar or read a bunch of hyperbole, so please, be honest, but lets be respectful at the same time.

I ordered a Cuben DuoMid a couple weeks ago. I did not purchase the MLD inner net, as I'm looking for something with higher side walls for use in cooler weather. I purchased a 2nd hand Oookworks Oooknest for my Duomid.

I preferred an Oooknest over an Innernet because it uses (for the most part) solid fabric instead of netting. My thinking was:

1. condensation dripping from the outer will roll down instead of getting inside the inner
2. protection from draughts
3. warmer

I'm pretty satisfied with my MLD Duomid and MLD inner net. It does its job, keeping me cozy, dry, and bug free. I wish the combination were a bit lighter, that's all.

This isn't an answer to your exact question, but... I simply don't like inner nets at all. I have one for my SuperMid and it's a PITA. I've come to the conclustion that inner nets sort of obviate the whole point of using a tarp in the first place and I've come instead to rely upon a minimalist bivy (MLD SuperLite) when I need bug protection or whatnot. A bivy also removes the need for a ground sheet. The SuperLite is MUCH lighter and MUCH less fussy, and doesn't reduce usable floorspace the way that an inner net does. I prefer it immensely. Thus when I bought my DuoMid as my "solo" shelter I didn't get any sort of inner net at all.

Of course, I live in the Rockies, where the mosquitoes generally don't need FAA clearance to land...

Edited by acrosome on 01/12/2013 08:53:35 MST.

I'm with Dean. Plus if it is a decent night, just use the bivy.

++ to Dean

Maybe 10 months out of the year there are few bugs, and the other 2 months I can usually find places where the bugs aren't

I have a 4 foot diameter of netting I just rest on top of me for the rare case I can't escape them

Some people seem to be more attractive to bugs so have to use better defenses

Cost.

Had a Solo Innernet for a while (and Solomid). It was just OK. (nothing more)

For lightness in the right situation it is adequate as long as all you want to do is lie down - for sitting up, it hung too loosely between the back corners however I tried tweaking it.

Whilst I appreciate that the minimalist design pattern of the rear panel reduces weight, (and allows quicker/cheaper construction ;)) it's not that great in terms of utilising the space of the shelter it hangs in unless modified a little.

Also, for me, if using an inner at all,(as opposed to just a floor or bivi,) in the wet windy (even often in summer)climate I backpack in, for 2-3 more ounces, a (at least partially) solid-walled inner with a T shaped zipper/fully opening doorway is preferable. (One that hangs tautly and fits the whole space it takes up nicely)

Edited by MoleJ on 01/12/2013 10:57:51 MST.

>I'm pretty satisfied with my MLD Duomid and MLD inner net. It does its job, keeping me >cozy, dry, and bug free. I wish the combination were a bit lighter, that's all.



MLD Duomid shelter, seam sealed w/lines 22.9 oz
MLD innernet for Duomid 14.9 oz
Tyvek ground sheet- 52x84" 11.05 oz
R.L. Carbon Tent pole w/adjuster 4.9 oz
8- 7" alum stakes 6.7 0z
-------------
3.77 lbs.
My tent package is lighter. I guess the ground cloth could be eliminated if you didn't worry about putting holes in the InnerNet.

This has kind of got me rethinking the flat tarp package:

Bearpaw 8x10 tarp 14.8 oz
MLD Serenity Shelter 9.45 oz
Tyvek ground sheet- 52x84" 11.05 oz
easton carbon poles 3/8" 3.55 oz
8- 7" alum stakes 6.7 oz
--------------
2.84 lbs

IMO the entire meme of a "need" for a groundsheet or footprint for a tent that already has a floor is a scam. If you poke a hole in your tent floor 99% of the time it's little more than a pinhole and a little SilNet or other silicone seam-sealer will fix it. Why carry another pound of footprint? IIRC Henry Shires agrees with me, so at least I'm in good company. :)

So, yes, I'd say that you can do without the groundsheet when you use the (floored) inner net. And for the tarp I'd still rather use the bivy.

Edited by acrosome on 01/12/2013 13:24:43 MST.

>MLD Duomid shelter, seam sealed w/lines 22.9 oz
>MLD innernet for Duomid 14.9 oz
>Tyvek ground sheet- 52x84" 11.05 oz
>R.L. Carbon Tent pole w/adjuster 4.9 oz
>8- 7" alum stakes 6.7 0z
-------------
3.77 lbs.

Woah, these weight estimations are very high. I wouldn't want folks getting the impression that Duomid use implies this kind of weight. Maybe you're working with a silnylon Duomid, but still. My cuben Duomid is 13 oz., seam sealed with all lines. The innernet is around 10 oz. and it has a complete bathtub floor so I would never bring a Tyvek ground sheet, even on rock. Titanium is also lighter than alum stakes. I also would never hike without hiking poles, so pole weight is extraneous. Just saying.

MLD Duomid shelter, seam sealed w/lines 22.9 oz
MLD innernet for Duomid 14.9 oz
Tyvek ground sheet- 52x84" 11.05 oz
R.L. Carbon Tent pole w/adjuster 4.9 oz
8- 7" alum stakes 6.7 0z
-------------
3.77 lbs.


Wow that is a lot of weight to be carrying for a DuoMid based shelter system.
My setup:
11.16oz - MLD DuoMid - cuben, with guylines, protoype with a few less bells.
9.98oz - Solo inner net tent MYOG from another BPL'er.
2.97oz - Eight stakes: 4 alum Y stakes + 4 ti hooks
0.08oz - Zpacks cuben stake sack
0.53oz - MLD stuff sack for the whole setup
--------------
1.54 lbs (24.7oz)

I'd ditch that Tyvek extra floor or the inner tent. No need for both. Get the stake weight down. You can get 8 great stakes for 4oz easy. I'd look at lighter guylines, unless somebody really slopped the seam seal on there, a silnylon DuoMid with guylines shouldn't be over 20oz. Mine was 19.2oz all in and I felt that was heavily seam sealed.

Oh and I don't have anything against the MLD inner net. My DuoMid just happened to come with this MYOG inner.

Edited by dandydan on 01/13/2013 14:30:05 MST.

Yes the weights are a little off. My DuoMid seam sealed with all bottom lines attached was 19 oz. I used a polycro footprint that a was 1.5 oz.

I just re-weighed everything and got the same figures (except for the stakes. There must have been more then 8 in the first bunch. 8 of the y alum stakes that I just weighed were 4.2 oz).

The cord attached to the shelter is parachute cord not spectra, I don't know how much difference that would make.

To verify the scale (on Monday) I'll weigh something at home and then take it down to UPS and see if they get the same reading. I'm hoping my scale is off.

Re the Tyvek ground sheet- Yeah I guess it would be redundant with the net.

BTW, this web site (everyone here) is such a wealth of great information. I've been learning a lot since I discovered it and certainly appreciate everyone's collective knowledge.

I'll just point out that, compared to your 10 to 15 oz inner nets, my SuperLight bivy with cuben bottom weighs less than 6 oz and doesn't require any fussing to install. And you can use it with any tarp that you care to, rather than just the one it's fitted to like the inner net. And it arguably helps you sleep more warmly. Until you start talking about really huge mids it's always going to be lighter- though clearly more expensive- to give everyone an individual bivy than to have the inner net.

Just sayin'.

EDIT-

But OTOH, before I talk someone into something for which they aren't prepared, the big downside of a bivy is condensation. If you aren't careful you can perspire yourself into total down collapse. My bivy has the optional larger netting window for better ventilation. In really cold weather (i.e. when the dewpoint tends to be actually INSIDE your down bag) you can mitigate this with a VBL liner or clothing. Of course a VBL sleeping bag liner is 5 more ounces, thus negating the weight advantage (but still a hell of a lot warmer).

On the gripping hand, if you're using a mid you probably really don't need protection from rain spray- you just want a ground sheet and bug protection. For that, there are bug bivies like the MLD version, 6 oz (5 oz in cuben). Not much of a condensation problem with a mesh bivy...

Of course bivies work best for people like me who do nothing in their shelters but sleep. If you camp more than hike you probably want the inner net.

Edited by acrosome on 01/14/2013 10:56:51 MST.

You can get a cuben VBL liner that goes for a lot less than 5oz, I've got one from Zpacks that weights in at 2oz.

The MLD ones are great.

But I do I prefer an inverted T zip so I don't have to work around a half door and higher bathtub walls are nice for soggy conditions.

Bivys rock too!

Regarding the above weights that I posted a couple of days ago. I went to the post office today and verified that my scale is accurate.

My sealed Duomid with MLD supplied guy lines topped the scale at 23.1oz. I'm sure all of our weights are correct. It's a lot of fabric.