Midlayer Technology: Patagonia Capilene 4 v. Mountain Hardwear Desna Hoody
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Tjaard Breeuwer
(Tjaard) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota, USA
Cap 4 Fit on 01/13/2013 11:31:17 MST Print View

How does the Cap4 fit compare to a R1 fit?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: What about the Piton Hybrid Hoody? on 01/13/2013 13:57:59 MST Print View

I have OR's equivalent, the Centrifuge, albeit a couple of oz's heavier- I've found it to be great for trail running in the cold, snowshoeing or x-country skiing- I doubt I'd use it backpacking- for the weight, a windshirt and Cap 4 would be more versatile and more effective

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Cap 4 Fit on 01/13/2013 14:00:08 MST Print View

pretty close to the same, both are cut "athletically", cap 4 might be cut even a little more athletically, both have longer arms due to the thumb hole/attachment

Mark Verber
(verber) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Cap 4 Fit on 01/14/2013 00:25:54 MST Print View

I agree with mike, and bit snugger than the R1.

--mark

Griffin Harte
(goharte12) - MLife
Re: Re: Midlayer Technology: Patagonia Capilene 4 v. Mountain Hardwear Desna Hoody on 01/15/2013 11:03:25 MST Print View

Curious to know the difference as well, I own an R1 Hoody and love it, great garment if your tall.

John Coyle
(Bigsac)

Locale: NorCal
Midlayer Technology: Patagonia Capilene 4 v. Mountain Hardwear Desna Hoody on 01/17/2013 11:12:20 MST Print View

Just wanted to clear up some confusion about Capiline 4 fabric. Not all Capilene 4 is grid fabric. For example, I have a Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Zip neck garment. It is NOT grid fabric, but rather what Patagonia calls 5.9oz Polartec Power Dry fabric. If you want the grid fabric, you must be sure you are getting what Patagonia calls 3.7oz Polartec Power Dry High Efficiency fabric. Don't assume that all Capilene 4 is grid fabric.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Rab on 01/17/2013 11:35:49 MST Print View

The Rab Baseline Hoody uses the same stuff.
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-news/just-in---rab-baseline-hoodie/8945.html

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: Rab on 01/17/2013 11:53:50 MST Print View

The baseline looks different --more like the R1 powerdry (doesn't have the same voids in the grid). The Rab AL does look like the same PD High Efficiency as the Cap 4.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
Cap 4 over the years on 01/17/2013 12:16:45 MST Print View

The evolution of Patagonias "expedition weight" long underwear is worth elaborating.

For a long time it was (essentially) 100 weight fleece.
In the early 00's it became R 1/2.
Then R 1/2 was renamed Capilene 4.
A few years ago Capilene 4 transitioned to Powerstretch fabric.
This past fall the HE fabric reviewed here was introduced.

It is indeed possible to find last years stuff NOS on sale. Worth asking to avoid confusion.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Re Rab on 01/17/2013 13:15:56 MST Print View

Read the link.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Re Re Rab on 01/17/2013 15:44:44 MST Print View

Mike the Baseline is definitely not the same fabric. Look at the specs. It weighs ~50% more.

http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/baselayer/baseline-hoodie.html

Edited by rmjapan on 01/17/2013 23:04:26 MST.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
@Rick on 01/17/2013 15:57:58 MST Print View

The Rab site is vague, read the review i posted and it's the same stuff?

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
Re: Re: Re Re Rab on 01/17/2013 16:08:15 MST Print View

From Mike's link:
"Like the AL, it's a versatile top that you either wear as a cold conditions, next-to-skin, heavy duty base layer or as a light, high-wicking mid-layer. Where it's different is in using a slightly heavier, slightly warmer version of the PowerDry fabric..."

Looking at some more pictures, the AL also looks like it has smaller voids in the grid than the Cap 4 (which explains the 6.3 oz for Cap 4 zip neck vs 9 oz for the AL). So Baseline> AL > Cap 4 as far as fabric weights. Like most Polartec products, the HE obviously has more than one variation.

Philip Bichard
(PXB) - MLife
Cap 4 hoody gone on 02/08/2013 04:01:55 MST Print View

Just looked on Patagonia.com and there's no listing for the men's Cap 4 hoody reviewed here. The women's is being sold off at a bargain $47. The Piton Hybrid is not the High Efficency fabric so it seems Patagonia are clearing the decks a bit, perhaps to introduce a new line or perhaps not.

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: Cap 4 hoody gone on 02/08/2013 06:32:42 MST Print View

Many items at Patagonia are seasonal and they just started their winter clearance (and the hoody sold out quick). I am sure the hoody will make a return next fall.

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
cap 4 on 03/23/2013 16:33:40 MDT Print View

My R1 pants weigh 8.4, the capilene 4 weigh 5.4.
But when I hold the cap 4 up to the light there is a lot less material.
So I'm not sure I like this improvement. I put the R1 on one arm and the Cap 4 on the other arm and the wind just whistles thru the cap 4

capliene 4 held up to a light
cap 4

old R1 held up to a lightr1

The melanzana tights seem to be closer to the old r1 but weighs 5.6 oz.

mel

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
r1 vs cap 4 on 03/23/2013 17:00:43 MDT Print View

the R1 is a much warmer material- no doubt about that, the cap 4 shines when you're willing to give up some warmth for breathability- the cap 4 is much better when your active

wore mine running this morning as a base layer under a windshirt, temp 19F w/ 15-20mph winds and I was just right- w/ the R1 I would have been overly warm and getting wet

despite looking similar, they are very different imo

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: cap 4 on 03/23/2013 17:18:27 MDT Print View

Cap 4 reminds me of fishnet--- providing pockets of warm air and part of a system rather than a stand-alone garment. Layering systems take a little mind-bending. I think we get stuck on outdated and urban clothing conventions.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: r1 vs cap 4 on 03/23/2013 17:27:14 MDT Print View

"wore mine running this morning as a base layer under a windshirt, temp 19F w/ 15-20mph winds and I was just right- w/ the R1 I would have been overly warm and getting wet"

I've been using the Cap 4 Hoody a lot this winter and have found it to be far more versatile than the R1 Hoody. I've found it to be comfortable in a range from ~45 degrees down to ~30 with winds up to ~15 mph when I'm on the move and working hard; it's tolerable down to the mid 20's with lighter winds and up to ~50 degrees on the high end, especially if there's a decent breeze. In higher winds or lower temps, I go straight to a Rab Boreas windshirt, beginning in the mid to high 30's. Above 50 degrees, it is time to go to a lighter baselayer. The R1 is good on the low end of this range, but does not move moisture nearly as well, and is unusable above ~45 degrees when on the move. All this is IME. YMMV. All in all, the most versatile base layer I've ever used.

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
cap 4 on 03/23/2013 17:53:57 MDT Print View

Interesting, I'm open to it but I can't use a base layer when hiking I sweat too much and these days I don't run at all, too many injuries. I see other people on the trail in baselayers and jackets and I'm peeled down to a shirt and still sweating.
I carry my baselayer to use at camp when I'm standing still or in my quilt.