NEW Patagonia Encapsil ("Dry Down") Parka
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Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Link offline, as per request on 01/11/2013 17:19:31 MST Print View

Babak,

I wouldnt feel bad for posting details of this jacket in the least. You don't owe Patagonia anything as far as I know. They didn't want it "released" yet? Who cares. Welcome to the real world Patagonia. Then they ask you to not past anymore details nor wear the $700 jacket you purchased? I think I'm missing something here.

At the very least, this situation puts Patagonia and BPL in a bad light.

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 01/11/2013 17:22:50 MST.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
My guess on 01/11/2013 18:32:15 MST Print View

Although the folks at Patagonia haven't really explained, it appears that there was a miscommunication between folks who deal with customers and folks who deal with marketing.......

I have the receipt, complete with the little photo of the product (as is customary in all Patagonia online orders)..... I'll be writing a (very) extensive and thorough review of this jacket come launch, courtesy of the friends at Patagonia.

Pretty big product leak, IMO.

Good thing thing for them that I don't work for MHW, TNF, or any of those other companies that rejected my applications a few years back....

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: My guess on 01/11/2013 18:44:11 MST Print View

Well man, you definitely are in a rare spot. FWIW I think you are being extremely classy. I don't think I'd be so caring with a huge corp making a 'whoopsie' like selling a prototype. (LOFNL)

Who knows, maybe they'll give you a job. That would be paying it forward for them. ... Or giving you your money back and you becoming a tester. (at least for this jacket)

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Sooner or later on 01/11/2013 20:01:08 MST Print View

Theyll get to ya

Its not like they sent it to u for free to review

You paid full price ...

Its not like were living in a police state ;)

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
eh on 01/11/2013 21:22:37 MST Print View

I say either do the reviews you want and wear it around or ask for your money back.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Re: My guess on 01/11/2013 21:45:37 MST Print View

I hope they do both :). Either way, more power to Patagonia for pushing the envelope.

Also, is Patagonia even a corporation? Last I heard, it was a privately owned company.

There is a video on Encapsil currently on the Internet, watch it - it does not seem like a very "inexpensive" treatment, given the scale.

This jacket, it appears, is a BPL "wet dream"- hollere at Richard for the lclo and weight- really impressive. Kind of blows the MHW Nilas out of the water, IMO, in terms of performance- then again, it's used a bit differently. Pockets on the Patagonia are insulated in a very "neat" way.

Dane Burns would love this jacket....

Peter Fokkinga
(nitto)

Locale: the Netherlands
wanted: state-of-the-market report of "dry down" on 01/12/2013 07:56:30 MST Print View

Speaking of reviews, I would really like to see a BPL state of the marked report about the various "dry down" offerings. From Nikwax Down Proof to Encapsil and everything in between. Published in three parts would be best IMO.

The first part is all about inventarization: what products are (soon) available? And for each product information from the manufacturer. For example: in what quality (cuin) available, whether (or when) available to cottage industries, which companies are (planning) to use it in their garments/sleeping bags etc. And if laboratory tests are available (like the PDF on the zpacks website) by all means include them!

Methinks this part could be written quite quickly if BPL has good relations with those manufacturers.

The second part should be all about how this stuff performs in the real world. Yes, it is impressive to see the difference between treated and untreated down when added to water, but I am not in the habit to go swimming in a down vest... Probably difficult to test objectively, but having a "don't bother / noticeable effect / impressive" verdict compared to regular down (per treatment) from the BPL staff after actually using it would be good enough for me (how's that for a vote of confidence ;-))

This report would take months, for starters you need to acquire jackets, quilts and whatnot using the stuff...

A third part would be about durability of the treatments, but that's a long way off (18 months at least).

How about it, would this be worthwhile and feasible?

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: My guess on 01/12/2013 09:02:45 MST Print View

This circus story just gets better and better.

Be careful, Patagonia might put a hit on you....

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: wanted: state-of-the-market report of "dry down" on 01/12/2013 09:09:24 MST Print View

It would Definitely perk things up for folks Peter.

My wife worked on this technology a couple of year ago and she explained to me how it works.

Jacob Smith
(Wrongturn) - MLife

Locale: The Soda
Re: on 01/12/2013 09:35:10 MST Print View

Babak has gotten a sneak peak, and some sob probably is now unemployed.

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Re: Re: Re: My guess on 01/12/2013 09:41:29 MST Print View

I'd say Patagonia has done a brilliant job at marketing by selling you this coat.

Look at the discussion already and you have the only jacket with technology we can't get our hands on yet.
Now you begin posting here about it but then BPL deletes it and then the manufacturer asks you to stop.

We are supposed to believe: The technology is SO good they don't want to spoil the surprise..

I don't have a TV but i know a commercial when i see one.

Hmm.. if it's so good, why the marketing theatrics?

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Eh, on 01/12/2013 10:47:22 MST Print View

I think it is more like (We have spent millions developing this jacket, and don't want our [potentially] multimillion dollar marketing campaign being spoiled).

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Eh, on 01/12/2013 11:09:17 MST Print View

How are they bribing you Babak, in garments or cash?

Peter Fokkinga
(nitto)

Locale: the Netherlands
effect of moisture regain on clo value? on 01/12/2013 12:09:33 MST Print View

Oh come on folks, give Babak a break... If a company would contact you saying they screwed up and politely asking you to keep quiet for a while, wouldn't you humour them? I know I would have (when asked nicely, a sudden deletion of forum posts would have had a different effect on me).

Anyway, Encapsil may be the best thing since sliced bread, but I am not willing to spend that amount of money on it. So I am more interested in the other "dry downs" out there.

And I found what Richard wrote (33% improvement in moisture regain when exposed to very humid air) very interesting. The one thing that escapes me though is what the effect of moisture regain is on isolation (clo) value.

Hopefully Richard is not under NDA and can expand on his research? Ideally I would like to read something like "when exposed to 100%RH for an hour the clo for untreated down decreased by 50% whereas the clo for treated down decreased by 20% under the same condition".

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: NEW Patagonia Encapsil ("Dry Down") Parka on 01/12/2013 12:18:52 MST Print View

Three pages of postings on this?

Me thinks maybe we need to get out on trail!

The fact that I'm looking at this thread indicates that I need to get out! If it weren't for this lousy weather ... rain yesterday that should have been 6" of snow (in January, no less!).

Maybe I should hop over to CHAFF and ask Mr. Tatersall about that.

Patagonia will have their big hype rollout. Until then there's really nothing to know until it is available for a lot of folks to field test and Richard to do his valuable lab tests.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Hmmmm on 01/12/2013 15:59:30 MST Print View

Honestly, had I not been introduced to the entire "outdoor industry" by a Patagonia employee, I would be posting more reviews.

I actually wanted to wear this jacket to the Outdoor Retailer show in two weeks, just to "give the finger" to the type of culture that surrounds that show. The "who do you work for" and constant glances at badges are some of the (many) reasons why OR needs to change (in addition to the completely prick attitude of the folks who organize the event).

Patagonia, y'all are on top of your game- as a privately held company, I prefer to give you my dollar over MHW, TNF or even Arcteryx. The other brands that are owned by corporations rarely make the effort, if at all, to change practices within the industry- whether it is assembling your Merino 3 base layers in the U.S., give back to the planet (seriously, how many companies even give anything back?), or simply starting a recycling program that both reduces carbon footprints and increases demand for your products.

Most importantly, Patagonia has HOOKED IT UP over the years, whether it was via warranty or just some cool rep. Upon reflection, I have more qualms with former employers, than I do Patagonia.

While I purchased this jacket, SOLELY for the purpose of reviewing/exposing it, I feel pretty bad about trumpeting the jacket.

Rest assured, I have written confirmation from Patagonia that NO ONE will be fired as as result of me purchasing this jacket. Patagonia wants to comp me for it, in return for me keeping it under wraps until it March 1. I hope they give me job :)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Hmmmm on 01/12/2013 16:22:23 MST Print View

Babak,

All industry shows are the same whether its outdoors, IT, Pharma or others.
snobbery in corporate office happens also, employees are at the top, long term contractors are next and temps at the bottom rung.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
aha on 01/12/2013 17:04:14 MST Print View

Rest assured, I have written confirmation from Patagonia that NO ONE will be fired as as result of me purchasing this jacket. Patagonia wants to comp me for it, in return for me keeping it under wraps until it March 1. I hope they give me job :)


700 dollahs of patagucciness might buy my silence too ;)

Mike Stromsoe
(phstudio) - F - M

Locale: So. Cal.
Why is even for sale now? on 01/12/2013 17:12:42 MST Print View

Am I missing something here? Why in the world would Patagonia offer a jacket for sale to the public with "top secret" proprietary information now, if they want to keep it under wraps until March 1st? I don' get it.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Perspective on 01/12/2013 17:30:59 MST Print View

I'm still just entertained watching Babak vacillate wildly between guilt over exposing the jacket and rebellion against Patagonia and the culture of outdoors gear. Show it off or hide it, who cares?

I already saw the video. It's a puffy jacket. I've seen a lot of puffy jackets. I don't know why everyone is flipping out... including Patagonia. I get that there's money involved from competition, but you can't sew an exact copy from a Youtube video and you can't manufacture one on a competitive scale before March anyways.

My 2ยข