So....how do you all feel about Oregon??
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David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
PDX props on 01/24/2013 12:55:43 MST Print View

>"And we do have an airport (the best in the country is Portland, in my humble opinion) with cheap(ish) flights to CA, HA or Las Vegas if you need a little sun!"

Steven: Good point, I've noticed that myself many times. I fly about 80,000 miles a year and PDX is big enough for many carriers, routes, and services but you can walk from every gate to any other. Other points:

Free wifi (which they had when SEA, SFO, and OAK did not - they proved to be trendsetters in that).

Great on-site parking (electronic monitoring directs you to levels and aisles with empty spots).

On-site (RIGHT ON SITE! - one skybridge from the terminal) rental car pick-up and return. Who the heck offers that anymore? Everyone is moving rental-car facilities a shuttle-bus ride away.

The "Red Line" light rail has a station just off of baggage claim and it takes you downtown and to various neighborhoods.

In-town pricing for goods and services. As part of their lease, merchants can't charge more than in-town counterparts. So the concourses are actually reasonable places to shop while departing or connecting. Powell's is a great local bookstore and has two stores at PDX. There's a good toy store, a pretty good shoe store, etc, etc.

Other things being close, I strongly prefer PDX to SEA for connections. Something I do once or twice a month.

I will fault PDX for there being NO service stations ANYWHERE near the airport for refilling rental cars. And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Ah...the draw of the PNW!! on 01/24/2013 14:00:07 MST Print View

I am simply loving this thread!!!!!

I would very much like to move to a smallish town - I do love a thriving college town. Honestly, setting aside politics and such, I would rather be in a town of brilliant conservatives (insert red-blue joke here...) than thoughtless liberals. An intellectual purple state would be perfect.

I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog...all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream...

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: PDX props on 01/24/2013 17:32:06 MST Print View

David said: "And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations."

Evil?
creating jobs- evil?

You WANT to get out of your car in the cold and rain to pump gas?

hmmm... I prefer to sit tight in my warm car, pass my debit throught the tinest slit in the window, then drive off after recieving gas and card back.


Its only evil till you've done it a few times, then it makes perfect sense.


And don't pull the "It ain't cold down there, Dave!" ;)

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Purple towns on 01/24/2013 17:34:01 MST Print View

>"I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog...all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream..."

We do that - work 3 days a week each. It's being on the good side of two balances: higher professional wages in the sticks and lower property costs. Also, you can go to work in your Carrhartts or Patagonia, so you save all expenses of a professional wardrobe. Also, professional don't move to small towns to make a ton of money (although we squirrel away far more money each year than our peers in metropolitan areas). They come for the gorgeous scenery or recreational venues or tasty critters. Therefore they respect their co-workers needs/desires to take time off. I see much more flexible working arrangements here than in CA.

Also, in a small town, the smart PTs, RNs, school teachers, etc, mix it up with the physicians, authors, and artists more than in the big city. My smartest friend in town is an ex-cop. In the big city, I wouldn't have met him because I'd be hanging only with other engineers and my wife's physician peers.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: PDX props on 01/24/2013 18:06:05 MST Print View

I despise oregon and their not self pump. You should have the choice. Let the market decide!

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Mandatory pump jockeys on 01/24/2013 19:31:30 MST Print View

Michael: My approach on WA-CA trips was to gas up in Vancouver, WA and again in Redding, CA. When popping into OR from Seattle, I'd fill-up so as to avoid any need to in OR.

I've done this in 48 other states, 23 other countries, am a decent plumber, and a pretty experienced engineer (mostly in cleaning up spilled petroleum products). But in OR (and NJ), I'm not qualified to pump gasoline while the pimple-faced teen texting on his phone, is?!?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:06:59 MST Print View

Okay, I am older than most of you and I worked in gas stations when self serve started...

Prior to the gas embargo of 1973 nearly 100% of all gas stations in the U.S. were full service. Oh, and most of the station attendants wore white shirts, bow ties, and a hat.

After '73 gas prices started to shoot up. And gas consumption started to decline. In a effort to gain market share, some gas station owners started offering self-service gas on one island and full service gas on the others. This allowed them to lower the self service gas prices, and reduce the overhead by reducing staff.

The public started buying self service gas in greater numbers. Eventually the demand was for self service gas.

At my last gas station, in 1998, we offered full service gas on one island and self service gas on the other three. We sold about 200 gallons a day on the full service islands and 10,000 gallons on the self service.

The public voted their preference with their dollars.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:20:33 MST Print View

Yet the more we had self serve, the higher the price....

I fill up in Oregon before I go to Washington because it's cheaper

I will sometimes just do it myself in Oregon - don't let the fire marshall know

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:38:16 MST Print View

The first time I tried to pump my own gas in NJ (I was unaware of the rule), the attendant about ripped my head off.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:50:32 MST Print View

You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?

The only thing that sucks about it is when you go to Washington and forget you gotta pump your own gas and you sit in your car cussing the attendant for 10min, only to realize they've seen your license plate and they're laughing AT YOU.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:55:29 MST Print View

Nick: Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. And free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned! An era in which a 2-ton car could be filled up for $3.

I suspect NONE of these will return.

Jeffs: While I have tremendous sympathy for people with 4 functioning limbs who won't care for themselves (not!), I remain unconvinced that "let's-employ-our-least-employable" is good public policy. In some OR stations, they ONLY pump. Leaving me to walk to the kiosk, pay the person behind bullet-proof glass, get a chit from them, find a pump jockey, give him the chit, let him put the pump in my fill pipe and walk away, wait some more for him to return, get a scribbled-on chit, go back to the kiosk, wait in line, get my change, and only then continue on my way. Perhaps you have stations found that provide better customer service, but in 48 other states, self service is exactly what I expect it to be and anyone can use it if they are willing to walk 10 feet to a pump and 10 feet back.

The vast majority of times I've had mini-serve gas, I get what I pay for, but a few times attendants have attempted to overcharge or short me. Unamazingly, that's never happened when I pump my own gas.

But I'm an equal-opportunity prick on this kind of thing. If a thief, skycap, bellhop, or third-world cabbie tries to take my bags without my permission, they get the stink eye and/or a elbow to ribs. White, black, brown, rich, poor, uniformed, or in mufti; only take my property if you have my permission.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 01/24/2013 21:37:50 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:58:15 MST Print View

"You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?"

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:05:19 MST Print View

"Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. Free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned"

Well, as you know, those weren't free. The owner had to buy them and charge more for gas. During the shortage the FIRST thing we did was get rid of the trading stamps. It wasn't long until S&W and Blue went out of business. Actually the oil company gave us the maps until that time. When they started charging us, we started charging the customer. We had to buy the glasses and other trinkets.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:43:13 MST Print View

In addition to what nick said.

I hate it because I don't like waiting several minutes on the idiot. The I get treated quite rudely because I got sick of waiting on the guy and started it myself.

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy. It's symbolic of the issues our country faces.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Variable costs and ever greater thread drift. on 01/24/2013 21:49:03 MST Print View

Nick: Oh, I get it. I'm glad to see the market go to more efficient models. If I want 1.0 pounds of hamburger, I'll grab the pre-wrapped package and only bother the butcher if I need exactly 17.3 ounces for some bizarre reason. Picking out my own bolts at Home Depot makes them cheaper for me but also lets me double-check some fit or design issue beforehand. Booking my own flights lets me look at ALL the options AND saves labor costs.

About once a year, we'll go to some real fancy restaurant where the waiter will lovingly unfold my napkin and place it carefully above my genitals. I grit my teeth and hope he's enjoying the process more than I am. Maybe that's why I'm in Alaska. To quote Heinlein: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:50:45 MST Print View

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas

So true. But that is also looking at the elephant up close through a limiting window.

Many factors influence the price. Today is Jan 24, 2013 and the most recent report I can find has statewide average gas prices just very slightly more expensive in WA than in OR (essentially the same).

Other factors influencing gasoline cost:

State gasoline tax, OR's is $0.30 and WA's is $0.375 ... 25% higher

Sales tax, OR appears to have no sales tax ... WA's varies but is 6.5% or more

Level of competition in the supply chain is a factor, as is local retail competition.

Of course, each of us is entitled to make choices not on $$ alone but on principles that are important to us.

BTW, the correlation between current state gasoline tax and current statewide average gasoline price is 0.0188 ... positive but essentially zero.

Edited by jcolten on 01/24/2013 21:53:03 MST.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:56:56 MST Print View

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy.

Not quite. That there is a job there IS guaranteed ... that a any particular person gets and keeps that job is optional.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:59:50 MST Print View

Jim that's what I'm saying. It's a job invented and kept solely in place by govt. pisses me off like garunteed jobs unions keep.

I like true competition.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 23:15:20 MST Print View

Michael, you need to go out hiking more and smell the pine trees rather than garumping every time you see someone that isn't working as hard as you think they should : )

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
:) on 01/24/2013 23:18:14 MST Print View

I know Man. The thread just brought back my irritation from this summer on my trip through Oregon.