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Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams.... do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/01/2013 10:39:42 MST Print View

Here's my dilemma: I was born in the Midwest. I was raised in the Midwest. I've lived in lots of places around the Midwest. I've lived in Chicago for the last 18 years, my family is here, my hiking buddies are here.

I hate it. For a lover of the outdoors, this place sucks.

Now don't get me wrong...there are some nice little gems tucked away here and there, and I adore them. I am a flaming liberal (bordering on communist my conservative friends like to tell me) and one of those college "elite intellectuals" that are apparently ruining our country.

So as I make my way through my 40s and remain single, I have realized that I need to get the hell out of here. of my 2013 plans is to move somewhere where I can wear a Melanzana hooded fleece and not seem like an outcast, where I can discuss the intricacies of alcohol vs esbit and people don't necessarily think that I'm talking about the latest bar on Rush street...

Anyway, as a physical therapist I've done some research on states in the west that are better for my profession than others, and Oregon seems like it might be a good fit. Granted, legal pot is in CO and WA, so I may need to rethink things a bit, but I digress. many divergent opinions here, I thought I'd toss it out there. How do you guys feel about Oregon as a place for me? I've heard great things about Eugene, but wow some people really, really hate that place and can't wait to get out of there.


Edited by Jenmitol on 01/01/2013 10:41:28 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/01/2013 10:56:03 MST Print View

I grew up in Portland, went to school and worked in L.A. for 8 years, then moved back and like it here.

Eugene is good too - one thing is that it's sort of confined by mountains so there is sometimes a bit of air pollution. Washington is pretty similar. Lot's of outdoorsy people. Lot's of liberals like you mentioned.

Check out for a segment of population.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Pinko commie liberals on 01/01/2013 10:57:10 MST Print View

I have no direct experience, but being a fellow bearer of "how did I end up so liberal?" syndrome, I have had Oregon recommended to me more than probably any other state (my heart is still set on Montana, though). I have also heard, however, that it's a bit like Pennsylvania--outside the more hippie-ish areas it can get pretty conservative pretty fast.

Ben Crocker
(alexdrewreed) - M

Locale: Kentucky
Like on 01/01/2013 11:06:04 MST Print View

Enjoyed your post a lot, Jennifer. Living in Kentucky, I feel much of your pain. Oregon sounds great.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
How's Portland?? on 01/01/2013 11:06:24 MST Print View

I worry a bit about going directly to a "small" town...being that I've been in Chicago for soooo long. I am kind of attracted to the idea of a smaller city, to live in a house that doesn't, literally, cost more than a million dollars...maybe I should focus more on Portland?? Portlandia does speak to me in all my hippie, commie ways.......

I am a bike commuter as that is important to me, too.

Thanks for the link...nice to have some direct contact. I'm flying out to meet with a clinic director in February, so ill get to spend some time in both Portland and Eugene. Any other places you would recommend I look at??

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Pinko commie liberals on 01/01/2013 11:08:24 MST Print View

"outside the more hippie-ish areas it can get pretty conservative pretty fast."

Last session the Oregon state senate was 50%-50% R and D

The Washington senate has one more D than R, but two of the D defected and are voting with the Rs so that one of them is now president of senate

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Pinko commie liberals on 01/01/2013 11:08:24 MST Print View

Oregon and Washington are very similar, really. The cities tend to be liberal, outlying areas, not so much. Eugene is a college town, my cousin lives there and loves it. He went to college there and stayed, he came from a conservative farming town in OR.
But if anything what you find in the West is less obsession with class, religion and family connections IMO. You can truly start over and find the life you wanted.
But ya know....I live in the conservative corner of King County, WA and like it. I consider myself conservative in voting (being that I own property and like a rural way of life) but I hike with plenty of liberal-minded folks from Seattle. If you don't bring up politics or religion, you find it easy to get along with most people here :-)

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Mmmmm. on 01/01/2013 11:14:18 MST Print View

Come to Scotland Jen. I live within 10 minutes of hills, 45 minutes from ski tows and white water canoeing, rafting, etc. I can walk on a sandy beach in a few minutes and watch dolphins.
I'm single, and a PT would be nice. You could sort out my dodgy leg. :-)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Mmmmm. on 01/01/2013 11:15:38 MST Print View

"I'm single, and a PT would be nice."

Great, now we'll have folks clamoring for a new forum here - BPL-matchmaking.......

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Must love dogs... on 01/01/2013 11:24:11 MST Print View

I like cuddling by a nice fire, long walks on the beach...

Marc Eldridge
(meld) - MLife

Locale: The here and now.
Re: How's Portland on 01/01/2013 11:28:31 MST Print View

I always thought that if you lived anywhere north of Ft Bragg on the coast, after a while you would grow webs on your feet.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Must love dogs... on 01/01/2013 11:28:45 MST Print View

..., and you can go from hiking shoes and eVent jacket to heels and black dress in no time flat...... ;-)

But back to your question. I lived in Oregon for three years back around 2000. Loved it. You have to deal with a lot of rain for a good part of the year - but it's not downpours for the most part. I lived just outside Portland, and thought Portland was one of the nicest cities I had ever lived near. Of course that was over 10 years ago, I'm sure it has changed some.

I should add, though, that back then I didn't think commuting from away from the city to the city was very good. No shoulders on the roads and traffic that wasn't always kind early in the morning. I lived in Hillsboro and rode my bike to work in downtown Portland for a bit, but stopped when a dumptruck nearly ran me over on a road with no shoulder. It wasn't the first close call. He didn't want to slow down until it was safe to pass.

I miss the west coast, and can't wait til I retire and move back out that way.

Edited by idester on 01/01/2013 11:32:57 MST.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Must love dogs on 01/01/2013 11:29:28 MST Print View

I used to have Sam, a Rhodesian Ridgeback.
Unfortunately, the ex got him.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Dogs on 01/01/2013 11:33:31 MST Print View

I'm prepared to live with you for 2 weeks before we get serious.
No rush. :-)

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
and then... on 01/01/2013 11:44:07 MST Print View

But after two weeks he'll make you sort out his dodgy leg... whatever that means. Sounds like antibiotics are needed.

Oh I guess I'll post on the original topic since I live in Ore... Its cool. Portland is only a 4:20 minute drive from Washington, come next year. Though it probably won't change Portland all that much. I'm a country boy stuck in the city, so I'll recommend any town. small as you can handle.

Edited by WoodenWizard on 01/01/2013 11:48:06 MST.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Great place on 01/01/2013 12:07:49 MST Print View

So, Oregon. :-)

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/01/2013 12:48:58 MST Print View

I'm with Sarah. Don't wear your politics on your sleeve, and most places (and people) are great in the west. And beside, no one at the grocery store cares if you're one of the intellectual elite.

And the Idester would be the first on the BPL Matchmaker forum!

Edited by skinewmexico on 01/01/2013 12:50:37 MST.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/01/2013 13:40:24 MST Print View

Both wife and I born and raised in St Louis.

Lived in Chicago 12 years.

Moved wife and kids to Oregon 26 years ago so as to raise them in a safe, nuturing, outdoorsey climate where people actually have a good work ethic. We're still here. Would never return to the midwest (except to visit family, all of whom still live there).

That should tell you something.

Did I mention the PCT, CT, CDT, and PNWT, as well as a vast chain of lovely mountains?

Here in Portland, you are literally 90 minutes from either the Pacific Ocean shore or the Cascade mountains.

Richard Lyon
(richardglyon) - MLife

Locale: Bridger Mountains
How about Montana? on 01/01/2013 13:49:24 MST Print View


My New Year's resolution last year was to move to the mountains. Some of the reasons were different than yours, but it was time to make a move. I chose Bozeman, Montana, and after ten months I think moving here (from Dallas) was perhaps the smartest thing I've ever done. Cost of living is much lower and the popping of the bubble on second homes made housing truly affordable. I expect that you'd have plenty of competition as a physical therapist, but plenty of business too. I'm told Bozeman has more orthopedic surgeons per capita than anywhere else in the US. All those hikers, skiers, rafters, and fishermen need help from time to time. University town with ample choices for indoor entertainment, one hour from Yellowstone NP, two world-class ski areas. The list is endless.

Politically Montana is independent. Though Romney got close to 60% of the presidential vote, a Democratic senator kept his seat despite (maybe because of) SuperPACS pouring millions into his rival's campaign, and we elected a new Democratic governor. The other senator is a Democrat too. Bozeman is mixed - typical liberal types affiliated with MSU but some arch-conservatives among the farmers and ranchers. Missoula, another great university town, is a bit more left-leaning. Perhaps it's because I moved from Texas, where I'd describe the politics as rabid, but I find a degree of tolerance here that I really like.

If you're like I was, the most difficult thing will not be where you move but biting the bullet and picking up stakes to relocate. (Excuse mixing metaphors.) I left behind some great friends and a decent business to move, and I haven't regretted it for a minute. I hope you do it!

Happy New Year, Richard

Yes 1000
Portland, OR on 01/01/2013 13:49:42 MST Print View

I see your name pasted all over Portland LOL

You will love this place, provided you can put up with the cold dampness and little bit of rain. Oregon is a mixed state with over 70% of population living in either Portland metro or Eugene and its surrounding areas. Of course Portland Metro ( Portland, Beaverton, Hillsboro, Tigard, Gresham etc) has most of the state's population. As you head out to the rural areas, people are more conservative and not so liberal minded.

As far my interaction goes, I interact with both ultra liberals and ultra conservatives and they are all nice people just with different opinions of their own.

I suggest you to consider Portland compared to Eugene.

I'm 1.5 hrs from Mt.Hood, Pacific Ocean, and 3 hrs from the high desert. And not to mention our own Columbia River Gorge which has probably a guzillion trails.

EDIT: Also the hiking community here is the quite big, and Portland probably has the most number of Subaru's in any US city I guess :)

Edited by mamamia on 01/01/2013 13:57:39 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/01/2013 16:21:06 MST Print View

"I am a flaming liberal (bordering on communist my conservative friends like to tell me) and one of those college "elite intellectuals" that are apparently ruining our country."

Berkeley, CA and San Francisco, CA would probably greet you with open arms :)

Aaron Croft
(aaronufl) - M

Locale: Oregon
Oregon is pretty great. on 01/01/2013 19:17:28 MST Print View

I'm an Occupational Therapist here in Colorado, but I did a couple of my internships in Oregon (Bend and Portland, respectively). I really enjoyed both places. For a city, Portland is pretty laid back, fun, and close to some great areas for outdoor recreation. The rain does take some getting used to, though. Bend was also pretty great, but a little too touristy for my tastes. It felt like if Boulder and Fort Collins had a lovechild, which is both a good and bad thing, I suppose.

I've considered heading back out that way, but I just can't bring myself to leave Fort Collins, or Colorad in general. If you like sun, beer, a myriad of outdoor activities, and a fairly liberal city (although not by Boulder standards), you should check it out! That Melanzana fleece will fit in just fine here...

Edited by aaronufl on 01/01/2013 19:21:30 MST.

David K
(aviddk) - F

Locale: SW Oregon
Ashland,OR on 01/01/2013 20:14:14 MST Print View

Ashland is really the place you are dreaming about. Small town, uber left wing and unlimited outdoor stuff all around. Now matter how wacked your philosophy is there will be kindred souls. We have waaay less rain than anywhere else on the westside. You are also five hours closer to all of NorCals great outdoor entertainment and SoCal desert sunshine in the winter. Making a living as a PT you would have to check out. Earning a living has always been the downside to Southern Oregon. Finding a special someone in a small town could be more challenging as well.

Don't get me wrong PDX is a great place, one of the best cities there is. Love to go visit and eat at our favorite restaurants. Eugene has some nice things to recommend it as well, for instances the incredible trail system.

Having lived in several town in Montana I can also heartily recommend that. Not everyone will find it to their liking. For the right type of person it will be paradise. One major requirement is that you must enjoy winter sports. Many towns on the East side of the Rockies have 90 day summers.

Best of luck with your New Year's resolution.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Hmmm...Colorado?? on 01/02/2013 09:46:22 MST Print View

So many people talk about CO...

How is the cost of living in Ft Collins or Boulder?? I've heard its a bit high...
Granted I'd be moving from one of the highest in the country, but the thought of a place where street parking isn't 6.50/hr for a meter, or a studio condo doesnt cost $250k...I guess my standards are a bit skewed.

As for politics, a nice purple state where people are actually tolerant of others would be just as nice as living in a groovy commune. Here where I am the conservatives are just openly hostile to anyone who doesn't wear tea bags on his hat. Chicago is a nice refuge, but as soon as I head outside the city there is actual, active KKK.......*shiver*

As for job prospects I'm fairly lucky with my profession...lots of demand and tons of jobs wherever.

Thanks everyone SO much for the recommendations and encouragement! It is very hard to pick up roots and move......but I just keep thinking about mountains and glaciers and skiing and pine trees and rivers...ah........

And mike, the British Isles have always had a special place in my heart ;)
You have good beer there!!!

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Don't listen to the sirens on 01/02/2013 10:09:48 MST Print View

Apart from beer, we make some nice whisky. ;-)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Oregon ... nice place to visit wouldn't want to live there on 01/02/2013 10:29:26 MST Print View

as someone who lives in mildly arid climate, most of the Northwest is a big No for me. I only visit Washington in July and August, and I have family there.
To me Washington and Oregon are roughly the same weather wise (I know you who live there will correct me on this).

The one place in Oregon I might consider, and actually did consider once, is ...

Bend , Oregon
a great place for a variety of outdoor experience.
fairly dry, since it sits in some kind of rain shadow.
fairly cosmopolitan for a small town (by my standards).
its almost like not living in Oregon while living in Oregon.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Oregon is YOU on 01/02/2013 12:29:12 MST Print View

Let's see... flaming pinko outdoorswoman?

Yes, Oregon is for you. Do not doubt it.

I'm originally from Pittburgh, but have lived all over the country (and the world). I did my 5-year residency in Tacoma, and we did rotations at Legacy in Portland. And, of course, I got around the state on my excursions, too.

Speaking as an outsider, if you want a city with a small town feel Portland is it. Very liberal. VERY bike-friendly, I mean like no other place I've ever seen, and EVERYONE walks around in their hiking clothes all day. Great food. The complaining about the weather re:rain is just a scheme to keep the Californians away. It rarely pours- more like a pleasant light rain. And even them it is scenic as hell. It is overcast a lot. But the three months in summer are sublime.

Portland is sort of like a smaller, cleaner, and more outdoorsy Seattle (if you can imagine that). All sorts of epic outdoor locales are very close. I climbed Mt Adams, via the decidedly nontechnical South Spur. Hood scares me- I'll not climb that. You can be sea kayaking one day (though granted Puget Sound is better for that), and hiking in the mountains the next. Then skiing the next. Or even all in the same day...

I've never been to Eugene. The coast towns like Cannon Beach are pleasant but I'm not sure about the job market for PTs. They're much more hippie-enclave-ish, if that's what you're looking for. Lots of tie-dye and vegan-organic-whatever. (Portland has more of a groovy-goatee-outdoors vibe as opposed to blatantly hippie, if that makes any sense to you. Lots of peircings and plugs, and of course the brew-pubs.)

I currently live in Colorado Springs. Colorado Springs is NOT for you. For instance it's the home-base of Focus on the Family, and it definitely shows. It's sort of the token "red as hell" metro area in this state. Even Pueblo has the hispanic vote, but not so much Colorado Springs. Denver- and particularly Boulder- is much more blue. Boulder might give most of the People's Republic of the University of California a run in the "who's bluest" competition. Golden (practically across the street) is also the northern(eastern?) terminus of the Colorado Trail. Fort Collins I understand is pretty blue, to. One nice thing about Colorado- 325 sunny days a year. My wife loves it here because of that. But you have to deal with a semi-arid climate.

But unlike Portland, Boulder is PART OF DENVER. In other words, it's not it's own thing. This can be nice in that you have a large city in which to find good food, shows, healthcare jobs, etc. But it's a CITY, no doubt, even if I-70 can have you in the middle of nowhere in nothing flat. Portland is more like a particularly large small-town. You can hike IN Portland. I loved Portland- can you tell?

Edited by acrosome on 01/02/2013 12:37:18 MST.

Kenneth Jacobs
(f8less) - F

Locale: Midwest
Portland on 01/02/2013 16:22:04 MST Print View


I have to agree with most of the people here that Portland is probably the place. I live here just outside Chicago in the NE burbs (Des Plaines). I've been to Portland many times as my sister and brother-in-law live out there. I honestly cannot say enough good things about Portland. Admittedly I tend to get very lucky with the weather when I'm out there, but I'd love the place wet or dry. Lots of places to explore and hike. I've hiked the Columbia River Gorge, been out to Smuggler Cove on the coast, bounced all around Portland eating and drinking and exploring. Great community, organics everywhere, quality food (and OH THE FOOD TRUCKS!!). Some day soon I'll pack up and move out there. May go out and have a few talks with the people at Nike this spring. Time will tell... If you are capable, I say pick up and move out there! I don't think you'd regret it one bit!

Would love to meet up and/or hike with you some time before you make a move decision. Don't know many outdoorsy people around Chicago and most of them can never find the time to get out.

I wish you the best in your searches. Let me know if you have any questions about Portland...or about Colorado for that matter. I lived out in Winter Park/Frasier for 6 summers a number of years back.


Eric N.

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Oregon on 01/02/2013 18:10:05 MST Print View

I moved to Portland 18 years ago from the East coast, when I was single and in my 30s, and it was the best move I ever made. The scenery and endless hiking options were some of the main attractions, but the city itself was also key: small enough to be manageable, but big enough to be interesting. But, at the risk of stating the obvious, please don't move here unless you have a job lined up. Unemployment's high, and sometimes this city seems filled with young under-employed people who just came here for the vibe and are now trying to figure out how to make the rent.

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
vibrancy? on 01/02/2013 18:58:15 MST Print View

Chicago is a really vibrant place, fueled by a pretty amazing social history and ethnic diversity.

You might find some of that in Portland. Eugene: maybe. Ashland and Bend: definitely not.

I grew up in Bend, and can't stand the place. There is a groupthink there, the kind you find in places where people who grew up there have rarely ever left home. I did not meet an African American till age 16 or a Jewish person till age 18. The snowfree backpacking season is only 6-7 weeks long, and these days is often marred by oppressive forest-fire smoke that lasts for weeks (it's a very dry place).

Like some others here, I can't help thinking you should check out Washington State as well, somewhere in or near Seattle. Boulder and Fort Collins are two other interesting suggestions, and I'm sure there are a lot more we have collectively forgotten to mention.

Wherever you visit, I wonder if there is a way to find out about the daily life there, rather than the just outdoor-tourist bubble? Can you stay with people, see what their commute is like, ride some bikes around, ask people how they feel about their jobs, go check out the local grocery store, etc. etc. Consider a winter visit, to see how you like the rain, the snow, or driving on two-lane black-ice deathtraps.

In any case: Welcome to the land of the Fleece Uniform. :)

- Elizabeth

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/02/2013 21:45:57 MST Print View

I lived in Eugene for 10 years. Went to college, both undergrad and grad, there. Of all the places in the world (and I have lived in a lot of places), Oregon was perhaps my favorite. As others have said here, Eugene itself is a college town and very liberal. Once you start getting out of the center, things do start getting more evenly distributed in terms of thinking. But I found Oregonians to be on the whole very tolerant and supremely easygoing.

The outdoors is what makes Oregon one of the best places to live. It's everywhere, and nice and big and quite unspoilt. The entire coastline is public domain, so very little development. And you get high mountains, a wild coastline, lots of big rivers, and a desert with great rock climbing. Also you have a population that loves being outdoors, so you'll meet lots of people with the same interests.

Eugene is good too - one thing is that it's sort of confined by mountains so there is sometimes a bit of air pollution. Washington is pretty similar. Lot's of outdoorsy people. Lot's of liberals like you mentioned.

I'm not sure where the idea that Eugene gets air pollution came from, but in the ten years I was there I never experienced that. The Coastal Range, the Coburg Hills, the Cascades, and Spencer's Butte do ring the city, but they are so far apart and the open length of the Willamette Valley is so flush with winds passing through that I'm not sure where the pollution would settle.

I've heard a lot about Portland, too (visited many times, but never lived there). If you'd prefer more of what a city can offer, I'd recommend Portland instead of Eugene. Eugene can seem really far away from the rest of the world sometimes.

As long as I've known unemployment has been high in Oregon. Many of my college mates who still live there all complain about the lack of work.

If I ever return to the States, my heart is set on settling in Oregon again. That's how much I loved it there.

Edited by butuki on 01/02/2013 21:49:40 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/02/2013 22:26:09 MST Print View

My sister lived in Eugene, maybe 1974 to 1984, and said air pollution can be bad there sometimes. Not a big deal though. Like a few days or weeks per year, in the winter.

Nelson Sherry

Locale: Mid-Willamette Valley
Oregon sucks on 01/02/2013 22:55:49 MST Print View

I have to drive almost an hour to get to either the beach or the mountains. Because of all the farming and logging, there are paved roads everywhere that our taxes pay for, but hardly anyone drives on. I have to pedal my mountain bike outside the city, at least a fifteen minutes ride, to find good trails. And, everyone knows Oregon republicans aren't real republicans. Everything is green because it rains all winter. I've met more people that have moved here without a job than anyplace else I've ever lived. No wonder unemployment is so high. It pretty much sucks here. I recommend staying in Chicago. ;-)

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Oregon sucks on 01/03/2013 00:41:31 MST Print View

That's a biggie, the rain. If you can't handle 9 months of unending drizzle, then anything west of the desert is pretty much out. Some people love the rain (like me), others it will drive batty!

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Rains once a year in Oregon on 01/03/2013 01:07:01 MST Print View

Only rains once a year in Oregon - starts in October and stops in May.

The air stays clean and fresh, though, although not so clear with all the constant overcast clouds.

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/03/2013 05:01:31 MST Print View

I'd move to Oregon in a second, and in fact plan to as soon as my overseas work with the federal government comes to an end. I strategically married an Oregonian and every time we go back to visit her family and friends we have long, hard conversations about just quitting our jobs and coming back for good.

Tops on my list of preferred cities would be Hood River, but you can't go wrong with Portland or anywhere else. Eugene is definitely a college town, but a good one at that.

Edited by evanrussia on 01/03/2013 05:06:38 MST.

Jeff Hollis
(hyperslug) - MLife
Think outside the box! on 01/03/2013 08:50:14 MST Print View

Jen you have better options than the rainy west coast. I recently moved from Dallas to Fayetteville, Arkansas, the foothills of the Ozarks. It is the home of the University of Arkansas so not quite as backwater as you might think. I found a community about 30 minutes outside of town that is on the White River. The community is called Beav-O-Rama and is what I like to call an unplanned community. Just to say I live in a place called Beav-O-Rama is reason alone to move here. There are no cookie cutter houses and no huge estates. It is an eclectic mix of old hippies, red necks, retirees, and probably a meth head or two. Bella the horse often freely roams through the neighborhood on weekends and many dogs here have never seen a leash. I have easy access to trails for hiking or mountain biking as well rivers to kayak. And the cost of living is dirt cheap. Plus I am surrounded by lots of deer, coyotes, hawks and the like.

I am an outdoor sales rep and needed to live in my territory so Fayetteville seemed like the best option and is central for my travels. Yes Arkansas is fairly conservative but not as much so in the Fayetteville areas and with a few more imports like yourself, we can grow into a Vermont. The vote on medical marijuana was only narrowly defeated in the last election so it is only a matter of time. And the people here are some of the friendliest you will ever meet certainly way more so than the west coast. A couple more pluses is that you can hike year round as snow is not too frequent and you can still marry a family member if that is your thing. And contrary to popular belief not all the meth jobs have yet been shipped to Mexico so there is still a place for you if you happen to be a good cook or user. And teeth are optional.

A side comment on Colorado. I have backpacked there for many years but with the mountain pine beetle killing off all the lodge pole pines and whole mountains covered in dead tress I don’t go there much anymore. I read a report a couple of years ago that said within 5 years the state of Colorado will go dark as in dead brown trees covering most of the mountain region. Not sure if that is true but there is certainly a whole lot of ugly in some places, not to mention a big tinder box that will be burning for years to come. Very sad and man-made.


Kyle Meyer

Locale: Portland, OR
Portland, OR on 01/03/2013 10:04:10 MST Print View

I've lived in downtown Portland the last ten years and love it. I lead about as hybrid a life as I can imagine possible in the US—travel most places by foot or bike (including work), live in a densely populated urban area, and can be on a trail in a wilderness area within the hour. On top of that, there is amazing beer and coffee, spectacular food, and like-minded people.

Check out the Northwest neighborhood (alphabet district). There's lots of single folks your age and plenty of opportunities to meet them at the litany of bars and restaurants. Unlike other areas, the northwest is much less hipster so your grid fleece will fit in well. : ) You'd also be within walking distance of Forest Park, the 17th largest city park in the contiguous US which has more than 80 miles of trail.

I make some new friends by inviting them backpacking. You get to know folks quick when you spend all night with them trapped under a tarp with a generous serving of bourbon.


Edited by kylemeyer on 01/03/2013 10:10:56 MST.

George Davis
(nsiderbam) - M

Locale: mid-Atlantic
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/03/2013 12:08:17 MST Print View

Check out Bend, Oregon. It's a gorgeous outdoorsy town surrounded by snow-capped mountains and I believe that the PCT passes right through (or at least very close to) it.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
So much love for the PNW!! on 01/03/2013 13:29:48 MST Print View

Mostly anyways...

Thanks SO much for all the input! As many of you may know - or realize - it is terribly difficult to uproot oneself and move across the country. I am lucky in my choice of profession in that jobs are plentiful, well-paying, and relatively easy to come by. But for those of you expressing concern about my economic worries, I have no intention of going anywhere without a job in hand. I will still have a mortgage here in Chicago and I am much too old to be living on strangers' couches.

With few exceptions there seems to be a lot of love for Oregon...yes Washington would be great as well but unfortunately it's not the best for physical therapists...

And to the poster who complained about having to ride 15 mins on blacktop to get to a mountain bike trail I sincerely hope you are kidding...I have to drive 2 and a half hours just to see something green. And even then I am sitting in stop and go traffic, the trails are where the mob buries its bodies, and they generally are paved. The view from the generally gorgeous National Lakeshore has nuclear cooling towers on either end, and a string of steel mills churning out nastiness in between. I would LOVE to ride 15 minutes on asphalt to see some trees.

Aaron Croft
(aaronufl) - M

Locale: Oregon
Re: on 01/03/2013 18:39:06 MST Print View

Fort Collins is fairly affordable, as far as Colorado goes. My original plan was to move to the PNW after Colorado, and while that may still happen, I'm having a hard time leaving here.

I think the best thing to do would to jot down a list of possible places, visit, and see which one fits (in regard to lifestyle, career, etc).

Edited by aaronufl on 01/03/2013 18:39:44 MST.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: So much love for the PNW!! on 01/03/2013 20:33:18 MST Print View

And to the poster who complained about having to ride 15 mins on blacktop to get to a mountain bike trail I sincerely hope you are kidding...

Oregonians have a quirky habit of jokingly keeping outsiders away by making things sound awful... but the problem is it's hard to come with anything awful, so you have to pick the tiniest inconveniences and pile them up just to make the point stick. =^)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: So much love for the PNW!! on 01/03/2013 20:52:15 MST Print View

You mean like complaining about air pollution in Eugene?

David K
(aviddk) - F

Locale: SW Oregon
and this on 01/03/2013 21:00:02 MST Print View

The snowfree backpacking season is only 6-7 weeks long, and these days is often marred by oppressive forest-fire smoke that lasts for weeks.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: So much love for the PNW!! on 01/03/2013 21:06:07 MST Print View


Back in 2006 i think Eugene was top 25 in the nation for poor air quality by one measure. So it isn't just joking. Plus it is terrible for grass allergies apparently.

I think it's better. Burning the fields was a big contributor.

Edited by mpl_35 on 01/03/2013 21:09:41 MST.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: So much love for the PNW!! on 01/03/2013 22:01:06 MST Print View

Plus it is terrible for grass allergies apparently.

That's true. Supposed to have something like 27 of the 29 known allergens. My brother, who has terrible allergies to grass allergens, nearly died when he came to visit. His whole face puffed up. We had to leave Eugene in emergency. I'd forgotten about that.

David K
(aviddk) - F

Locale: SW Oregon
Willamette Valley, the “grass seed capital of the world.” on 01/03/2013 22:16:22 MST Print View

Here is the reason for the grass allergy problems.

Oregon is the world’s major producer of cool-season forage and turf grass seed and a widely recognized center of expertise in seed production. Most of the acreage is located in the Willamette Valley, the “grass seed capital of the world.”

Oregon had TeePee burners for wood waste for many years. Even in the early 80s you could see them burning like giant open bonfires. They contributed a lot to the pollution.

In areas were there was fruit production fuel oil burners were used to ward off frost in the spring. After a night of use the smoke used to hang for days. They are no longer legal to use.

Plus everybody and their brother used wood to heat with. In the heyday of old growth logging there was plenty of waste wood to heat a lot of homes. Requiring certified wood stoves and the reduction in the availability of firewood has cut down considerably on the pollution from woodstoves.

Tom Deal

Locale: Northern Idaho
Former Oregon resident on 01/05/2013 16:45:23 MST Print View

I have lived all over Oregon and I would have to say Bend was my favorite.Like most have said it rains alot on the coast.(There not called Oregon Ducks for nothing). It sounds Like you like city living and really that's all it is from Troutdale through Portland and down I-5 To Salem and Eugene.Mostly pavement and cars and people and every once in a while you will see a farm in the middle of it all.If you like seasons Spring winter fall summer you might consider further inland.Being a city person you must be used to the type of crime rates most cities have so I wont get into that.I can Vouch for Spokane Wa. its a decent little city with plenty to do. Coeur d'Alene Id (the city on the lake) is a growing city as well and both have seasons to enjoy and Lots of hiking and Biking..They have a paved biking trail thats almost 80mi long

Harald Hope

Locale: East Bay
just go to portland on 01/05/2013 17:14:29 MST Print View

Jennifer Mitol, I lived in portland for a few years, and work has brought me back there once or twice a year since then, so I've seen it evolve. I'm ignoring all smaller northwest cities like Bend because in my opinion they would suck to live in, small towns, oppressive as heck, and just boring. If you move to portland and take some trips and find a small town like bend or eugene and find you like it, fine, but I'd never move there to start with, you'll almost certainly regret it, unless you want very little from your town. Portland is filled with people just like you, fleeing from various states in that region and wanting to live somewhere more progressive but not too urban.

Here's the points: portland is the BEST biking city in the USA. Bar none. Others now come there to study how they are developing their infrastructure. It gets better and better by the year, they are dedicating more and more resources to it, and portlanders are biking in higher real numbers than ever. This quality biking has led, of course, to a mushrooming of the biking scene, good bike shops, coops, messenger/delivery companies, etc, which leads to even better biking.

Portland has a true peak oil task force, and is actively engaged in aggressive rezoning to attempt to be one of the cities, one of the very few, I might add, that will not totally fall apart as oil supplies grow short and prices high. Many bpl probably have no idea what this means or why it's a critical component for any city that plans on existing in the future, but portland has a lot of people who understand that if you don't prepare for the future, you're going to be very sad when it comes. This alone puts it in a tiny list of american towns who are actually taking the steps required to move into the future with hopes of success.

Portland now allows local ag, like chickens, and it's part of a national movement to localize. It's also surrounded by rural area that is increasingly being farmed by young farmers who don't believe the lies of aggribusiness and want to create a more sustainable world.

Portland is removing parking places on street and replacing them with either rows of bike parking or small water collecting mini parks.

Portland isn't perfect, it's got some really bad suburban ring sprawl around it, and beaverton is about as bad as any other suburb in the world, but as long as you stick within the core of portland, you don't really need to deal with that part.

They are expanding their light rail, and actively embracing New Urbanism, which focuses on walkable/mass transit development, to increase urban density and decrease alienating car use.

From being a relative wasteland re food and eating out, they've gone to becoming somewhat of a foodie mecca, not probably as good as San francisco or NYC, but very good still.

It's still a small city, not a major urban area, but it's just big enough to not suffer from the problems of smaller towns/cities.

I could go on, but the positive list grows every year, and tempts me to move back almost every visit I make there.

One last thing, the cascades are not 90 minutes from portland, I was on the trail 30 minutes from portland, about, at multnomah falls, that trail led to pct eventually, which means, 30 minutes from portland, you can start walking and not stop for 1500 or so miles.

Also, totally ignore that talk about portland being wet or rainy, what it does there most days in winter is drizzle. We went day hiking all the time in the columbia gorge in winter, it's fine. Most true native portlanders can be detected because they don't usually wear rain gear. And virtually never umbrellas. A nice thick wool coat is usually all you need, or a nice water resistant fleece jacket. My normal bike trip there would involve me getting damp, a dampness that vanishes when you arrive to where you were going. Like anywhere, it also gets real rain, so I used fenders and had full rain gear for those days, which is really not a big deal either.

East Oregon is high desert, dry, and ranching country, it's not a very nice place to visit but it is worth it just to see it, but there's virtually no interaction between the more lush coastal strip and the eastern part, so that's not relevant to any decision you'd make re moving there. That's sort of like worrying about Fresno or Bakersfield not being ideal when you are contemplating moving to San Francisco.

Work in portland isn't great, but I assume you're a nurse or something else that makes it very easy to get work, so you don't have to worry about that downside.

While seattle is cool, in my opinion, biking it sucks, it's too dependent on some key freeway type bridges between its sections which leads to really bad traffic jams, and it also has a long strip of suburbs going North that is pretty dismal. In Portland you really never need to use your car, mine would often stay parked unmoved for weeks at a time, which is just how I like it.

Portland is not as urban as Seattle or San Francisco, but it's filled with refugees of states just like yours who came just for the same reason, in fact, it amazed me to no end how often I would meet people from states I'd never even seen before, like Alaska, Idaho, etc, and that's not an accident, portland is the middle ground between a large scale world city like seattle or san francisco and a way too small place like olympia or bend, and if you look at a map of that chunk of the country, you'll realize after a while that there are basically no towns like that, and that's why people flow there.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: just go to portland on 01/05/2013 21:02:16 MST Print View

Jennifer, you might like to see this

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/05/2013 23:29:56 MST Print View

Peak oil task force. That's awesome. It would be even more awesome if it was Peak Oil was a real occurance. That theory was developed before shale oil, and doesn't take it into account. Oops. Got off topic. Sorry.

James Castleberry
New Mexico on 01/06/2013 07:19:20 MST Print View

Don't overlook New Mexico when considering a move. Great hiking, less populated than OR or WA, good weather. Downside is some people there don't understand Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROEI) and that a barrel of oil produced from shale requires much more energy to release it from rock and pull it out (compared to simply sticking a straw/pipe in the ground). To say nothing of the environmental destruction. Peak Oil is not a "belief." It's a recognition that individual oil fields follow a bell-curve-shaped production profile and that our finite earth is a collection of individual oil fields. We're probably OK with stable oil prices for a few years, but kudos to portland for leading the way.
Tiny uptick on right is the "immense" increase in US oil production recently.
US Oil Production

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: just go to portland on 01/06/2013 07:30:20 MST Print View

Great post Harold. Helpful. Not like those others.


Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/06/2013 08:01:42 MST Print View

Is peak oil anything like Gold Peak iced tea? 'Cause that stuff is really good. I think you can get it in Oregon - so another reason to move to Oregon. All the peaks.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/06/2013 08:37:16 MST Print View

Shale oil delays the year when peak oil will occur

Eventually we'll run out of that too

Hopefully we won't go back to "gas guzzlers" to burn through the shale oil as fast as possible and then we'll be in the same spot again - not enough oil, higher spikes in gas prices,...

Somehow, I don't think the price of gasoline will go way down where it used to be, like much less than $3 a gallon

Sean Heenan

Locale: Southeast mountains
Off topic.....where is Peak Oil? on 01/06/2013 09:08:25 MST Print View

I tried climbing Peak Oil once but it kept moving, then it disappeared.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
midwestern escape on 01/06/2013 09:48:05 MST Print View

Speaking as someone who grew up outside Cincinnati, I say move west, and fast. Your only regret will be not doing it a decade sooner.

The rest is just details.

The tradeoff as a single person will generally be a bigger (i.e. 200,000 or more), more crowded area with a more vibrant scene or a quieter, smaller town where every single person over 30 has dated almost every other single person over the age of 30. In the later case the gender difference will be in your favor (assuming you're hetero), but you'll have to deal with a lot of 40 year old ski/fishing/hiking bums still doing their best to stay 22.

Answer that question, pick a preferred climate (wet v. dry/sunny; hot v. cold), and rent a UHaul.

Personally, I'd avoid the PacNW due to climate and crowds, and absolutely avoid the CO front range. Why move away from gridlock looking at cities to gridlock looking at mountains? Missoula is a mini-Portland with lesser versions of all the good things and much better outdoor opportunities (and so many fewer people). Flagstaff is pricey and a bit insular, but if you can find a good job it has the best and most diverse outdoor rec access in the US, bar none. Grand Junction is a bit sleepy, but feels like a real town and has a great mix of mountain and desert access close by.

Good luck.

Harald Hope

Locale: East Bay
please don't pull this thread off on 01/06/2013 12:38:14 MST Print View

Joe Clement Douglas Ide, while it's always cute to see people, particular guys like you, totally non-critically (yet totally predictably) fall for mainstream media spin and agressive marketing of stock prices, this isn't the thread for that discussion. Read for ongoing analysis of that new set of myths. theoildrum is to energy extraction matters as bpl is to geeky ul chat. Let me put if very briefly and simply: shale oil (aka 'tight') is not a new thing, production from those long known and worked on resources happens when peak oil pushes prices up high enough to be economically viable. It's expensive both in dollars and energy to extract that tight oil, and each well has catastrophically steep decline rates, up to 80% in one year, which forces very fast drilling cycles. Drilling isn't free, nor are licenses on the land, and also, they are now drilling the best, ie, highest yielding, fields in those tight plays, which means it's not going to get better in those fields over time, it's going to get worse. Drilling firms study geological data when they pick where to drill. As for profit, ideally, enterprises, they pick the best sites first. Since there are no longer any good sites of standard oil in the usa, what they are left with is the garbage, like tight oil. The fact of high oil prices is the cause of this new production, it doesn't 'disprove' peak oil, it proves it, but to understand that, you'd have to have at least a hint of a clue about the topic. I'm including some links so you can start working on that, if you want. Or just keep believing fairy tales, if you want, personally I don't care what you do. Expensive production methods like those that tight oil extraction requires are enabled only once the overall oil price rises high enough (it's about 80 a barrel break even if I remember now for tight oil, about 60 a barrel for tar sands, compared to old stuff of 1 or 2 a barrel). When you start accessing known inferior oil supplies, like canadian bitumin aka tar sands, you aren't 'beating' peak oil, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel, and that's not disproof, its proof, since that junk was known for decades and ignored because it was too expensive to produce, and too low quality.

The difference between towns who have no plans and live in cornucopian fantasies spun by media and energy groups who are trying to dump their shares on suckers as fast as they can and Portland is that Portland actually has a plan, and are acting on it. Plans like this take decades to implement, it's not something you do when it's already too late, and you don't drop these plans based on a short term blip of tight oil production increase of about 700k barrels a day, give or take.

The alternate, which you two predictably demonstrated, is to do nothing, sit back, watch the news, uncritically, making sure only to believe what you want, then complain as prices rise, go out and buy a big vehicle, complain as it costs more to fill it. Then blame the liberals for geological oil production limits, while being totally and utterly ignorant of any actual facts, such as that the US has maybe 90% of the worlds total oil wells drilled, and is better at tertiary recovery of oil in place than anywhere else in the world (which is what helped smooth the downward, post US peak production since the '70s), and hit its own peak of production in 1970 or so, exactly as predicted, and that this recent shale/tight oil bump is just a little notch up in the overall decline. Then, having ignored all the actual facts and data, complain some more. Then one day, whine about no gas being available at your local station, which of course is incomprehensible since it's a fundamental american right to have all the gas they want, no matter what nature or geology has to say about it. That's a fine strategy, and I hope it works well for you, and I also hope you work on blaming others rather than creating solutions as things progress, which is the norm from what I can see from your types. To me that's not smart, but then again, that's why progressives work at progressing, and others work at complaining that the old ways aren't working anymore. Have fun. But objectively, I know perfectly well that whatever the mass media you pick tell you, you will believe, so we'll just have to see what they have to tell you as this stuff progresses.

Here's a few recent overviews (warning, these have big words and contain content and analysis based on real oil production data, and are not designed to pump up shale/tight oil producing companies).

Does the U.S. Really Have More Oil than Saudi Arabia?

Drumbeat: January 5, 2013

Search the comment threads for: ROCKMAN he's a conservative texas oil geo, and I like him particularly because he shows that not all conservatives are totally clueless. He's a real conservative, by the way, so you can feel comfortable with him, he's not a pretender or closet liberal. alaska_geo is good too, as is west texas, a lot of these guys are working or retired oil company guys. But ROCKMAN says it like it is, if you don't like what he says, then you don't like reality, which is probably I'm sure the case...

I could post hundreds of these links, but these are fine to start with. tod (it has a nickname too, like bpl) has had a good time chuckling at the way suckers fell for stock price pumping on shale gas and oil, plus the way a small blip in production has been escalated into some massive amount of oil that changes everything.

The second is a news overview they do 4x a week, the comments are generally also informative if you know which posters to pay attention to. Rockman is the best, he's a working texas oil engineer who basically can tell it like it is because his company is privately held and has no stock prices to protect. darwinian, though annoying, tends to be pretty on the spot with this production data. You won't find views based on ignorance tolerated there, by the way, so you might not feel at home.

Jennifer, consider this an example of why you want to live in a community filled with smart, forward looking progressive people, they can actually work on the future and not frantically cling to a fading past, being around those types of people is frankly sad and depressing when the data is so well understood in almost every area. It's not longer time to chat and babble, it's time to act, your instincts are absolutely right in this matter. What you want is to be around people working for a real viable future, not fantasies that simply mean: don't want to change, fear change, resist change. But that's what makes progressives progress, lol. Maybe I'll see you up there one day, we'll see. But do consider those two guys here way of thinking as the exact thing you are trying to get away from, and it's exactly why portland is one of the few US cities out there that actually makes sense long term to relocate to. Believe me, it's refreshing to have your daily world filled with people who are actually using their lives to change the norms.

Joe Clement Douglas Ide thanks a lot for providing Jennifer with an example of exactly what she's trying to get away from, and I do wish you luck on your plan of business as usual while business grows more and more unusual, while not a very interesting plan, I'm sure it is easier to follow than changing anything of substance in your lives.

Sean Heenan, you must not have tried very hard, maybe you need better gear, or better sources. The prediction by those who study the matter was for around 2005-2012. After that we'd be on an undulating plateau of production, which is exactly where we are now. Actual real oil total global production did in fact peak around 2005, the first article I linked to I think talks about some of the myths are you stuck in. All serious analysts put the peak at around 2000-2020, with the more serious middle case being around 2010, that proved to be exactly right. Of course, one no longer needs to even see the numbers, all one needs to do is see the prices, the global political and economic repercussions, and the moves, ini increasing desperation, to the lower energy yielding sources that lower prices had made very unattractive. You take the best first, when that is gone or going, you take what is left, and which you wouldn't have considered. Obviously, since this is a finite resource, production has to hit a peak, and equally obviously, since we grabbed the best and easiest to access first, at a certain point, we hit the peak. It's impossible not to, this is not magic.

My apologies for not adhering to the apparently standard format of posting a supposedly witty sentence or two in substitution of actual data or analysis, particularly on critical and core things involved with modern culture, I know that's how I'm supposed to do it, the less actual content I include the better, of course. Now if those pesky liberals would just stop quoting facts and figures and return to cute sayings and slogans, it would all work out better, I admit it.

I have to admit, I didn't think the peak oil comment would draw much attention, it's a small feature of portland that simply shows that they have people with understanding involved in the city, and this subsequent topic drift simply points to yet another great thing about portland, they are working in reality, not fantasy, and they are working for the future, not some misguided attempt to maintain business as usual, the plan most US cities seem to be embracing. So while boring and offtopic, I would consider this as a very concrete demonstration of just how progressive portland is, and why it's so desirable to live in such an area in these times. Working to the future doesn't happen by typing short terse comments in forums, it takes actual work, planning, long range changes, development changes, all kinds of things.

Now for the next witty short contentless rebuttals, sigh, repeating something without any actual data or background understanding.... I suggest y'all take it over to I'll get a laugh out of reading that, but here, not so much, it's kind of boring repeating facts that are very well understood outside of the mass media. Another good reason to move somewhere like portland, of course.

Edited by hhope on 01/06/2013 13:26:57 MST.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
derail on 01/06/2013 14:38:26 MST Print View


Please quit derailing a great thread. I know others gave pitched in, but you instigated it. Even if unintentionally.


The PNW summers rock, but the constant mist/rain is a downer. And I'm on the east side of the Cascades...

Bend or others closer to the mountains sounds ideal IMO.

Flagstaff is beautiful.

The west is open to you. Visit. Heck, visit them all and pick. Goodluck.

Edited by mpl_35 on 01/06/2013 15:08:41 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: please don't pull this thread off on 01/06/2013 15:35:31 MST Print View

"Joe Clement Douglas Ide, while it's always cute to see people, particular guys like you, totally non-critically (yet totally predictably) fall for mainstream media spin and agressive marketing of stock prices, this isn't the thread for that discussion. "

Ah, Harald, such an arrogant ass you are. And not witty at all, to boot!

But you're right, it's not the thread for that discussion, which is why I tried to steer it back to Portland with a little humor. I was rebutting nothing. Of course, because you're so much smarter than the rest of us, you couldn't help yourself, right after saying it wasn't the proper thread, giving yet another of your stuffy dissertation responses anyway. You, sir, often make me laugh, so I guess we're even on that score.

Now for the next insufferable, probably long, haughty response, sigh, repeating something as if the rest of the world is so clueless ... I suggest you take it over to Whiteblaze. I'll get a laugh out of reading that, but here, not so much, it's kind of boring reading your dissertations, even though most of us know what's well understood outside of the mass media, regardless of whether you realize that or not....

Green Thumb
Only one problem with Bend... on 01/06/2013 15:44:29 MST Print View

I grew up in Bend and loved every minute of it. The only issue with Bend is the collapsed economy. So much of the population boom in Bend in the late 90's early 00's provided a glut of construction related work and very little in the way of real, sustainable work. If you can find solid work, Bend is a great place for those who love easy access to the outdoors. I miss the view of the Cascades from my front deck, the smell of sage on the brush covered High Desert, and cool afternoons floating the Deschutes.

I recall Bend being mix of people with a wide spectrum of personal and political beliefs. I hope you're not looking to move to an echo chamber. I'd love to hear Harald explain how Bend is oppressive. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. I'd move to Bend in a heart beat if there was work for an RF Engineer.

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife do you all feel about Oregon? on 01/06/2013 15:54:41 MST Print View

Interestingly, I haven't seen a lot of what Mr. Hope is talking about in the 14 years I've lived in the Portland area. There is lip service paid to getting people out of their vehicles but at least 90% still commute by car. The freeways here during rush hour are just as jammed as those in Seattle. I see more and more crowds, I have to drive farther and farther to find uncrowded trails, etc. I'm also seeing more and more taxes while the local schools are deteriorating. The only reason I decided to stay in this area when I retired is that I developed vision issues and wanted to be where public transport is good and where I have access to high quality specialized medical care. I'm not too sure this was a good decision because my vision issues are now stable and even more so because public transit, especially the light rail, has become so crime-ridden that I don't dare ride it at night. (Sorry, Jennifer, I should have mentioned this in my PM, which was rather hastily composed.) Of course the Portland area is also rather convenient to most of my family (Seattle and the SF Bay area). I therefore probably won't move until I get too feeble to live alone.

As for year around hiking in the Gorge, the place has been iced up for well over a week, with more freezing rain forecast for tonight. A few intrepid hikers are slithering out there to see the icy waterfalls but are bailing on their hikes because conditions are too dangerous. Hopefully things will melt soon, but not in the near future.

Now that I've finished my doom and gloom for the day (partly due to a sick, possibly terminally so, dog), here's a positive piece of advice: Take trips now (not in spring and summer!) to the places you're considering and to some of the other places suggested in this thread or any others that appeal to you.

Edited by hikinggranny on 01/06/2013 15:58:46 MST.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
So many things to think about!! on 01/06/2013 16:47:36 MST Print View

And here I thought no one would really respond to my original question...ha!

I honestly don't know how I'd do in a rainy winter...we haven't had a proper snowy one here in Chicago in years, and I kind of like dreary weather. Not sure if I would like it day after day after day after day...much like being a lifelong cubs fan, I guess.

I do have two trips planned to Portland coming up, one in February and one in April...and I do have job contacts and meetings already set up. I honestly am not at all worried about employment - I am very lucky that orthopedic physical therapists are quite in demand all over. And the pay ain't bad, either.

I am grateful to everyone for the push more towards Portland rather than one of the smaller communities; as a big city dweller for close to 20 years I do need some vibrancy and grittiness and culture and diversity that you're right, I probably wouldn't find in a truly small town. And those of you who reminded me that once I'm out there I can still hire a truck and relocate to smaller places - absolutely! It's nice to be reminded of that. I do wish Washington had better laws for physical therapy practice, as it does limit me a bit to Oregon.

I hadn't looked into Montana at all...I guess I'm thinking that as a single person looking for a more appropriate social life (yes, I'm hetero...where's the guy from Scotland??) I thought heading to a busier city might be more my speed. At least to start...

This is quite fun...I knew I could count on you folks for a, um, wide variety of opinions!

And Mary, I am SO sorry to hear your dog is ill :(

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: do you all feel about Oregon? on 01/06/2013 17:48:08 MST Print View

Yeah, so sad that Hyson is ill.

We had 13 cats. Now we have 4, so we have had to go through that multiple times.

But they provide so much enjoyment when they're with us.

I use Portland mass transit a little.

Max (light rail) is pretty good. Interesting mix of people but I feel comfortable.

I took a bus on N.E. 82nd street. I felt like someone might mug me or something, but that's probably just my own bias.

S.W. Garden Home bus - I felt like MAX, only problem is it only comes once every 45 minutes.

Maybe you'de like N.W. Portland the best. Like "The Pearl" district or around N.W. 20th or whatever.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: do you all feel about Oregon? on 01/06/2013 18:02:16 MST Print View

Yeah where Mary lives is nice, but you got go straight through the crappy area to get to the good. Public trans out there would be scary but the closer you get to the city the safer it is. IMO stay west of 205 (or out in troutdale) and east of 217. North of... mmm maybe well Johnson Creek for sure. Sellwood is cool. Westside is allgood IMO till you get round 217 and west of there. There are pockets of ill willed people in the N and NE but its not as bad as you may hear. St Johns is really cool but sorta inconvenient to get in/ out of it.

If you live in nicer areas and dig the city life I say go straight Pearl Dist. Especially if you work at OSHU. I bet you could ride to the waterfront and up the river to the bottom of the tram and ride it right up. I'd be fun!

This is merely one man's opinion.

Hk Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Portland vs. Chicago on 01/07/2013 12:14:51 MST Print View

Go with what feels best as we can get bogged down in minutia. Every city and even small town has its ups and downs. Think the advice to visit Portland in the "off-season" winter is good but winters in Chicago aren't really balmy either. Crime-wise it all equals out as Seattle and Portland have their crime (being next to a fatal shooting in the pier district of the former myself) but Chicago isn't exactly peace, love, and granola either; I remember a few blocks off of fairly ritzy hotel row on Lake Michigan, having my restaurant order exchanged through bulletproof glass while visiting Chicago .

Big thing is bankroll. Having a large chunk of cash will help ease the transition obviously, so maybe getting a cheaper living situation in Chi-town til you are ready to move. An added bonus is then spending that money in your hopeful Shangri-la. Just my 2 centavos, señorita.

chris Nelson

Locale: San Francisco
San Francisco on 01/07/2013 16:51:39 MST Print View

I'm going to have to throw out SF/Berkeley. It is a big city with a small town feel where you are free to express what every you want, especially if you are liberal. With a 3 hour drive north, east, or south you have great backpacking.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: San Francisco on 01/07/2013 16:58:09 MST Print View

A BIG +1 for San Francisco/Berkeley!!!

Steve S
(idahosteve) - F

Locale: Idaho
what about Boise? on 01/07/2013 17:11:40 MST Print View

I'd throw out Boise..... even with that stupid award about being the best place to move to this year, there still aren't many folks here, the economy is picking up very well, and the outdoor access is minutes for the most part....
plus, we tend to leave each other alone.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA do you all feel about Oregon??" on 01/07/2013 22:52:20 MST Print View

I've posted earlier about the motives for and advantages obtained from our move from Chicago to Portland 26 years ago.

That said, had I been able to get the same job that I had in Portland, I would have MUCH preferred to have relocated to Idaho or Montana. Wyoming was a distant third as there was absolutely NO chance of equality of employment in my industry.

Boise is the "banana belt" of Idaho. Everywhere else in the state you have far nicer scenery, higher elevations, and a boatload more snow and ice to deal with. As in many NE states, you learn to drive and handle the snow/ice. Oregonians have to learn to deal with 9 months of almost constant, incessant rain. Native-born Oregonians are born with webs between their toes; transplants eventually grow them if we stay long enough. RIBBIT!

A serious point for older folks, OR and WA both have an estate tax, while ID. MT, and WY do not. If you have kids to whom you wish to leave a significant financial legacy, you need to seriousy consider this when relocating. The federal inheritance tax carries a 5 million dollar exemption; each state has their own levels. OR allows only 1 million before Salem holds out its hand.

OR and MTR do not have sales taxes. WA and WY do not have a state income tax. In both OR and ID, your social security income is not taxable by the state.

Having graduated from the Univ of Montan (Missoula) and lived in ID for many years, I can say without reservation, that ID would be my personal preference over MT and WY, mostly because of the ease of air transportation between us and our grown kids.

Edited by wandering_bob on 01/07/2013 22:57:44 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: what about Boise? on 01/07/2013 23:07:32 MST Print View

I love Boise. Had to work there a few years ago, making several 1 week trips over a 6 month period. At first I wasn't excited about going there -- guess I should have done some research first. Anyway, I found it enchanting. Even has a theatre in the round in a most wonderful downtown environment.

One warning though; I found the populace to be infatuated with broncos; not the four-legged species, but the gridiron species.

Very easy to get around in a car, unless the broncos are engaged in combat. Easy in and out of the airport too.

It would be a great place to relocate to.

Chris Morgan
(ChrisMorgan) - F

Locale: Southern Oregon
Re: do you all feel about Oregon??" on 01/23/2013 14:20:06 MST Print View

This map is relatively accurate (although I have no idea why Gresham is doing so well):

Edited by ChrisMorgan on 01/23/2013 14:24:37 MST.

Ian B.

Locale: PNW
Vancouver, WA on 01/23/2013 16:03:45 MST Print View

Move to and work in Vancouver, WA. so you can enjoy 0% state income tax but Portland is just across the river where you can get your bigish city fix and enjoy Oregon's 0% sales tax for when you need to buy gear.

Vancouver is not too far away from St. Helens and the Cascades in general.

You can't go wrong with either state but I'm biased towards Washington.

P.S. Voodoo Doughnut is reason enough to move to Portland though.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 01/23/2013 16:47:17 MST.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/23/2013 16:09:49 MST Print View

As another very liberal person, but one who started in the SF and ended up in a very small, rural, conservative Alaskan town, here are a few thoughts.

I've always like mid-sized college town, especially those with pretty elite schools. Northampton, Amherst, Ann Arbor, Madison, even Lawrence. Eugene in Oregon. There's a lot going on culturally and intellectually without the traffic, dirt, and crime problems of big cities. Also, property values aren't so crazy so you needn't work so many hours each week to pay the mortgage.

Although Seattle and Portland have big recreation (overnight stuff and skiing) closer than the Bay Area does, the regional parks in the SF area are real gems. To take a 3 or 5 or 10 or 20 mile hike before or after work from a trailhead 20-30 minutes away (0 to 3 minutes if you find the right location) is not available to most people. And as much as I self-identify as a backpacker, I have to admit that more of my miles each year are on day hikes and day ski trips.

I'd also point out some of the advantages of smaller more rural towns: Housing and really spectacular land is far, far cheaper. We know MD - MD/PhD couples who struggle with their mortgage for a very boring SF house. They aren't on the 13 acres of spruce forest with 700 feet of sandy beach and views across the salt water of glaciated volcanos that we have. And our house payment looks more like the electric bill than a CA or WA house payment. On top of that, professions pay better here. Sometimes a lot better. That seems backwards, but it is supply and demand. Docs, lawyers, engineers, etc, gravitate to the big cities and there is an oversupply. Any professional with a pulse can hang their shingle in a small town and one with some skill and dedication is quickly fully booked and greatly appreciated. We each work about 3 days a week and therefore have time to be with our kids, volunteer, exercise, and travel. That wouldn't be so easy in a metropolitan area. Sure, I'm the only un-armed, truckless guy I know, but I still get invited on hunting trips because I'm a heck of a sherpa. And while there aren't many liberals, we got to know them all very quickly so we actually felt much connected after 6 months in town, than after 3 years in Seattle.

Chris Morgan
(ChrisMorgan) - F

Locale: Southern Oregon
Re: Vancouver, WA on 01/23/2013 22:46:47 MST Print View

While I'm sure the Vancouver comment is well intentioned, don't move to Vancouver.

(See the above map, at the bottom of the key)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Don't move to Wasington on 01/24/2013 08:51:18 MST Print View

I don't trust the people, especially those in Seattle.

I have been to Seattle many times. It is always raining. Very little visibility. I find that depressing. Now the people in Seattle always brag about Mt. Ranier. But it doesn't exist. You can't see the supposed mountain from Seattle, because it is always raining. Ranier is an urban legend created by the Seattle visitor's bureau. I am sure of this. Oh, they will show you "PhotoShopped" pictures of Ranier.

But if you like to paint houses in the rain, re-roof houses in the rain, pour cement in the rain, or enjoy moss and fungus growing on your roof, then Seattle is for you. And if it isn't raining, it is overcast. Depressing. On the other hand, if you like rain then move to Alabama - they get a few more inches of rain than the gazillions in Seatte. Where I live, we measure annual rainfall in inches; in Seattle they measure annual rainfall in feet.

I enjoy the 360 sunny days per year where I live, plus some years we have zero measurable inches of rain. Makes backpacking shelter choices simple.

Tommy Franzen
(Tomlike) - F

Locale: Pacific Wonderland
rain.... on 01/24/2013 09:16:30 MST Print View

Inches of rain per year is a little deceiving. New York, Washington DC, Miami, New Orleans, Atlanta, Boston, Tampa, Houston, Hartford, etc. all get more inches per year than Seattle. That being said, Seattle does get some of the most rainy days per year, it just drizzles a lot instead of pours (Seattle is also one of the cloudiest cities). We're a little better off down here in Portland, but not by much. That being said, I go backpacking 20-30 nights a year in Oregon/Washington, and rarely get rained on during those trips (the PNW summers are some of the best on earth). Aside from tax cheats and legal weed, I agree with Chris, stay away from Vancouver...

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Don't move to Wasington on 01/24/2013 10:01:47 MST Print View

"people in Seattle always brag about Mt. Ranier. But it doesn't exist. You can't see the supposed mountain from Seattle"


I always see Rainer when I go to Seattle. From 31,000 feet. Maybe that's why they make Boeings there? So they could have a view?

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/24/2013 10:55:34 MST Print View

Truthfully it isn't the rain that is hard about spring and early summer in the PNW. It's two things:

(1) the low-level grayish-white "ceiling" of clouds. This is what, in my opinion, is sometimes a little depressing. Everyone gets used to the rain, but coming from the mid-west with big open skies can take some adjustment.

(2) the late snow melt-off. When the rest of the country has dry (maybe too-dry!) trails, we are still waiting (and waiting) for forest roads and THs to melt-out. The thick forests here keep the snow from melting until well into July. If you are coming from another part of the country, where kids are in tank tops and shorts by late March, this can take some adjustment.

HOWEVER, we DO have green grass and trees, even in winter. We don't have the dry brown grass and trees that the rest of the country has. We do have the Pacific Ocean an hour+ away. We do have skiing a hour+ away from both Portland and Seattle. We have great fireroads and trails for snowshoeing and cross-country. And, like Tommy said, we have the best summer weather, from around mid-July to late October.

And we do have an airport (the best in the country is Portland, in my humble opinion) with cheap(ish) flights to CA, HA or Las Vegas if you need a little sun!

By the way, don't listen to everyone about Portland. It is actually more than 12 square blocks around the Willamette. If I was single and young, I'd want to live in the Pearl District or Inner Eastside, too. But there are wonderful normal people who live around the city, towards Beaverton and North Portland and SE. It just depends on what you want for your life.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: re: do you all feel about Oregon?? on 01/24/2013 11:51:31 MST Print View

Having just moved to Seattle and grown up in the sunny southwest, one way to handle the grey is to live with a view. I am looking out on the Puget Sound and snow capped Olympics now. You pay for a view in housing cost, but the grey does not get to you near as much, from what I have found.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
PDX props on 01/24/2013 12:55:43 MST Print View

>"And we do have an airport (the best in the country is Portland, in my humble opinion) with cheap(ish) flights to CA, HA or Las Vegas if you need a little sun!"

Steven: Good point, I've noticed that myself many times. I fly about 80,000 miles a year and PDX is big enough for many carriers, routes, and services but you can walk from every gate to any other. Other points:

Free wifi (which they had when SEA, SFO, and OAK did not - they proved to be trendsetters in that).

Great on-site parking (electronic monitoring directs you to levels and aisles with empty spots).

On-site (RIGHT ON SITE! - one skybridge from the terminal) rental car pick-up and return. Who the heck offers that anymore? Everyone is moving rental-car facilities a shuttle-bus ride away.

The "Red Line" light rail has a station just off of baggage claim and it takes you downtown and to various neighborhoods.

In-town pricing for goods and services. As part of their lease, merchants can't charge more than in-town counterparts. So the concourses are actually reasonable places to shop while departing or connecting. Powell's is a great local bookstore and has two stores at PDX. There's a good toy store, a pretty good shoe store, etc, etc.

Other things being close, I strongly prefer PDX to SEA for connections. Something I do once or twice a month.

I will fault PDX for there being NO service stations ANYWHERE near the airport for refilling rental cars. And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Ah...the draw of the PNW!! on 01/24/2013 14:00:07 MST Print View

I am simply loving this thread!!!!!

I would very much like to move to a smallish town - I do love a thriving college town. Honestly, setting aside politics and such, I would rather be in a town of brilliant conservatives (insert red-blue joke here...) than thoughtless liberals. An intellectual purple state would be perfect.

I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog...all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream...

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: PDX props on 01/24/2013 17:32:06 MST Print View

David said: "And then there's Oregon's evil policy dis-allowing self-serve filling stations."

creating jobs- evil?

You WANT to get out of your car in the cold and rain to pump gas?

hmmm... I prefer to sit tight in my warm car, pass my debit throught the tinest slit in the window, then drive off after recieving gas and card back.

Its only evil till you've done it a few times, then it makes perfect sense.

And don't pull the "It ain't cold down there, Dave!" ;)

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Purple towns on 01/24/2013 17:34:01 MST Print View

>"I have these great dreams of seeing patients a few days a week, and the rest of the time sit on my porch and read a book, take a hike, ride my bike, snowshoe, XC ski, run, kayak, play with my dog...all while smelling fresh green foliage, mountain air, listening to a stream..."

We do that - work 3 days a week each. It's being on the good side of two balances: higher professional wages in the sticks and lower property costs. Also, you can go to work in your Carrhartts or Patagonia, so you save all expenses of a professional wardrobe. Also, professional don't move to small towns to make a ton of money (although we squirrel away far more money each year than our peers in metropolitan areas). They come for the gorgeous scenery or recreational venues or tasty critters. Therefore they respect their co-workers needs/desires to take time off. I see much more flexible working arrangements here than in CA.

Also, in a small town, the smart PTs, RNs, school teachers, etc, mix it up with the physicians, authors, and artists more than in the big city. My smartest friend in town is an ex-cop. In the big city, I wouldn't have met him because I'd be hanging only with other engineers and my wife's physician peers.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: PDX props on 01/24/2013 18:06:05 MST Print View

I despise oregon and their not self pump. You should have the choice. Let the market decide!

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Mandatory pump jockeys on 01/24/2013 19:31:30 MST Print View

Michael: My approach on WA-CA trips was to gas up in Vancouver, WA and again in Redding, CA. When popping into OR from Seattle, I'd fill-up so as to avoid any need to in OR.

I've done this in 48 other states, 23 other countries, am a decent plumber, and a pretty experienced engineer (mostly in cleaning up spilled petroleum products). But in OR (and NJ), I'm not qualified to pump gasoline while the pimple-faced teen texting on his phone, is?!?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:06:59 MST Print View

Okay, I am older than most of you and I worked in gas stations when self serve started...

Prior to the gas embargo of 1973 nearly 100% of all gas stations in the U.S. were full service. Oh, and most of the station attendants wore white shirts, bow ties, and a hat.

After '73 gas prices started to shoot up. And gas consumption started to decline. In a effort to gain market share, some gas station owners started offering self-service gas on one island and full service gas on the others. This allowed them to lower the self service gas prices, and reduce the overhead by reducing staff.

The public started buying self service gas in greater numbers. Eventually the demand was for self service gas.

At my last gas station, in 1998, we offered full service gas on one island and self service gas on the other three. We sold about 200 gallons a day on the full service islands and 10,000 gallons on the self service.

The public voted their preference with their dollars.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:20:33 MST Print View

Yet the more we had self serve, the higher the price....

I fill up in Oregon before I go to Washington because it's cheaper

I will sometimes just do it myself in Oregon - don't let the fire marshall know

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:38:16 MST Print View

The first time I tried to pump my own gas in NJ (I was unaware of the rule), the attendant about ripped my head off.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:50:32 MST Print View

You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?

The only thing that sucks about it is when you go to Washington and forget you gotta pump your own gas and you sit in your car cussing the attendant for 10min, only to realize they've seen your license plate and they're laughing AT YOU.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:55:29 MST Print View

Nick: Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. And free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned! An era in which a 2-ton car could be filled up for $3.

I suspect NONE of these will return.

Jeffs: While I have tremendous sympathy for people with 4 functioning limbs who won't care for themselves (not!), I remain unconvinced that "let's-employ-our-least-employable" is good public policy. In some OR stations, they ONLY pump. Leaving me to walk to the kiosk, pay the person behind bullet-proof glass, get a chit from them, find a pump jockey, give him the chit, let him put the pump in my fill pipe and walk away, wait some more for him to return, get a scribbled-on chit, go back to the kiosk, wait in line, get my change, and only then continue on my way. Perhaps you have stations found that provide better customer service, but in 48 other states, self service is exactly what I expect it to be and anyone can use it if they are willing to walk 10 feet to a pump and 10 feet back.

The vast majority of times I've had mini-serve gas, I get what I pay for, but a few times attendants have attempted to overcharge or short me. Unamazingly, that's never happened when I pump my own gas.

But I'm an equal-opportunity prick on this kind of thing. If a thief, skycap, bellhop, or third-world cabbie tries to take my bags without my permission, they get the stink eye and/or a elbow to ribs. White, black, brown, rich, poor, uniformed, or in mufti; only take my property if you have my permission.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 01/24/2013 21:37:50 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 20:58:15 MST Print View

"You guys crack me up! Who cares who pumps your gas? Its not like ORE lawmakers dont think your gas pumping skills are up to par. (dont cut the mustard? LOL)

Just sit in your car and get your gas pumped- whats the big deal?"

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:05:19 MST Print View

"Green stamps and Blue Chip stamps also went away. And free water glass and presidential coins and those brown mugs from Shell that looked like someone had drooled white goo on the rim. And the 76 styrofoam balls to stick on your antenna. Free road maps, free air, the oil checked and the window cleaned"

Well, as you know, those weren't free. The owner had to buy them and charge more for gas. During the shortage the FIRST thing we did was get rid of the trading stamps. It wasn't long until S&W and Blue went out of business. Actually the oil company gave us the maps until that time. When they started charging us, we started charging the customer. We had to buy the glasses and other trinkets.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:43:13 MST Print View

In addition to what nick said.

I hate it because I don't like waiting several minutes on the idiot. The I get treated quite rudely because I got sick of waiting on the guy and started it myself.

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy. It's symbolic of the issues our country faces.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Variable costs and ever greater thread drift. on 01/24/2013 21:49:03 MST Print View

Nick: Oh, I get it. I'm glad to see the market go to more efficient models. If I want 1.0 pounds of hamburger, I'll grab the pre-wrapped package and only bother the butcher if I need exactly 17.3 ounces for some bizarre reason. Picking out my own bolts at Home Depot makes them cheaper for me but also lets me double-check some fit or design issue beforehand. Booking my own flights lets me look at ALL the options AND saves labor costs.

About once a year, we'll go to some real fancy restaurant where the waiter will lovingly unfold my napkin and place it carefully above my genitals. I grit my teeth and hope he's enjoying the process more than I am. Maybe that's why I'm in Alaska. To quote Heinlein: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Mandatory pump jockeys: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:50:45 MST Print View

Because the manpower to pump the gas increases the variable operating costs of the business, requiring the owner to charge more money for a gallon of gas

So true. But that is also looking at the elephant up close through a limiting window.

Many factors influence the price. Today is Jan 24, 2013 and the most recent report I can find has statewide average gas prices just very slightly more expensive in WA than in OR (essentially the same).

Other factors influencing gasoline cost:

State gasoline tax, OR's is $0.30 and WA's is $0.375 ... 25% higher

Sales tax, OR appears to have no sales tax ... WA's varies but is 6.5% or more

Level of competition in the supply chain is a factor, as is local retail competition.

Of course, each of us is entitled to make choices not on $$ alone but on principles that are important to us.

BTW, the correlation between current state gasoline tax and current statewide average gasoline price is 0.0188 ... positive but essentially zero.

Edited by jcolten on 01/24/2013 21:53:03 MST.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:56:56 MST Print View

Guy gets a garunteed job and is lazy.

Not quite. That there is a job there IS guaranteed ... that a any particular person gets and keeps that job is optional.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 21:59:50 MST Print View

Jim that's what I'm saying. It's a job invented and kept solely in place by govt. pisses me off like garunteed jobs unions keep.

I like true competition.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/24/2013 23:15:20 MST Print View

Michael, you need to go out hiking more and smell the pine trees rather than garumping every time you see someone that isn't working as hard as you think they should : )

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
:) on 01/24/2013 23:18:14 MST Print View

I know Man. The thread just brought back my irritation from this summer on my trip through Oregon.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: :) on 01/24/2013 23:26:34 MST Print View

That's why we don't allow self serve

to irritate people that might move here so they don't

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: :) on 01/24/2013 23:56:49 MST Print View


You know California is sending many of its ultra-liberals to Oregon to infiltrate your state government, don't you? Soon Oregon will be a California clone. Enjoy.


edited for spelling.

Edited by ngatel on 01/25/2013 11:09:40 MST.

Ian B.

Locale: PNW
re: op on 01/25/2013 09:19:24 MST Print View


I think what we've all learned here is that a) Portland is a lovely city to move to, b) be prepared to have someone pump your gas, c) fossil fuels are a finite resource, and, d) at Voodoo Doughnuts you can eat a peach fritter the size of a human head.

Hope this helped

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: :) on 01/25/2013 11:03:04 MST Print View

"Soon Oregon will be a California clone. Enjoy." (I put the 'l' in clone)

Montana here we come!

(sorry Montanites) :)

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Let the Free Market Decide!! on 01/25/2013 14:22:45 MST Print View

@Micheal L who said I like true competition.

So would I .... but it is SO rare. We do not have a functional market and have not for a long time. The only kind of competition you're likely to encounter is similar to that experienced if you are hiking up wind and quietly in a forested patch and come around the corner to find yourself 10 meters from a grizzly bear. The outcome is predetermined.