King of Denial
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David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Re: Re: oh dear on 12/31/2012 11:17:53 MST Print View

Someday I may hike up to a high mountain lake in mid winter and stay about a week. Maybe read a few books and do some ice fishing. I won't spend anytime wondering whether others approve. I will just take what I have learned from Tipi's posts and go from there.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Re: oh dear on 12/31/2012 11:33:07 MST Print View

This thread makes me smile. First we start out bashing Micheal W for saying that he thinks UL is superior. Then, we lay off Michael for a few minutes to nail Tipi Walter for saying UL is inferior.

I think you're all crazy - my style is best. It's the best of both worlds. My style involves reading BPL, buying UL gear, then thinking I can walk 35 miles per day like the rest of you. After 12 miles, you suck enough wind to ask Jesus for sweet death and end up throwing down the tent anywhere you can. So in summary, you get to be UL, but you also get to camp a lot. It's a win-win baby.


Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 12/31/2012 11:49:40 MST.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
It's all good on 12/31/2012 11:54:41 MST Print View

I've posted this video before, but add a shelter, and this is my kind of hiking.
Happy new year everyone. :-)
Joy

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Backpacking as Identity....No Thanks. on 12/31/2012 12:08:08 MST Print View

This whole thread is a great example of why associating any sort of backpacking style with personal identity is foolish. Here we go again with people defining themselves and others based on what's on their back and in their pack. Brilliant.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: It's all good on 12/31/2012 12:15:42 MST Print View

Happy Hogmanay Mike :-)

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Re: Backpacking as Identity....No Thanks. on 12/31/2012 14:01:55 MST Print View

I think that was my point, Craig. It's not just that some people define "themselves and others based upon what's on their back," but that I'm pretty comfortable saving that if one defines themselves by their backpacking style they tend to define everyone else that way, too. And inevitably, it seems, said definers see themselves as expert enough and righteous enough to do it.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Kings of Denial on 12/31/2012 17:13:47 MST Print View

"To me, that's Backpacking Light even though it may be "heavy" on the standards of those who pack lighter, move faster and enjoy things differently than I do."

+1 to your entire post, Erik. There is plenty of room on this site for all the folks strung out along the continuum from Skurka to Tipi and, apparently yourself. And all those who are both. A beautiful, well written post!

Erik Dietz
(erikdtz)

Locale: Los Angeles
Re: Backpacking as an identity... on 01/01/2013 14:11:12 MST Print View

+1 Craig

You say it perfectly almost every time.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Backpacking as an identity... on 01/01/2013 14:36:10 MST Print View

Yes, almost every time.

But the reality is that when we get folks that bash the lightweight approach on a lightweight website, which is then supported as a HYOH approach by members of the site, the basis of the mission of the website comes into question.

I guess UL IS really dead. And so is BPL.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: King of Denial on 01/01/2013 16:42:42 MST Print View

Craig said,

"This whole thread is a great example of why associating any sort of backpacking style with personal identity is foolish. Here we go again with people defining themselves and others based on what's on their back and in their pack. Brilliant."


Greg said,

"Why do you give a rats a$$ if people think what you are carrying meets their arbitrary rules. It's you carrying it, not them."


Gotta agree.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Who is bashing anything?? on 01/02/2013 10:19:12 MST Print View

This thread is fascinating.

I didn't think anyone was bashing anyone, and if that's what you come away with then jeez.....
This site has been awesome in helping me go from a 40+ pound pack to a nice, trim 9 pound base...on my last trip, when everyone else dropped their packs to rest, I never even bothered. Didn't need to take it off to "rest." I never, ever thought that would have been possible.

But why is it so against the philosophy that I like to bring a book to read in my awesome cuben shelter before I fall asleep?? Obviously I was terribly mistaken if I thought the purpose of the site was to help people cut their pack weight so they can enjoy their hiking more. Is there something wrong with enjoying the outdoors in ways that are meaningful to me? Some days I feel like cranking out mileage, others I'm looking for a physical and mental break and just want to lounge about amidst beautiful smells and scenery...

If the ONLY way to hike is with a sub 4-pound load, sleeping under a log and eating dried berries...then hiking 37 miles before I'm allowed to stop...then you're right. I'm no BPLer. And in that case I don't want to be.

Who knew hiking was a competition??

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Who is bashing anything?? on 01/02/2013 10:27:01 MST Print View

But why is it so against the philosophy that I like to bring a book to read in my awesome cuben shelter before I fall asleep?? Obviously I was terribly mistaken if I thought the purpose of the site was to help people cut their pack weight so they can enjoy their hiking more. Is there something wrong with enjoying the outdoors in ways that are meaningful to me? Some days I feel like cranking out mileage, others I'm looking for a physical and mental break and just want to lounge about amidst beautiful smells and scenery...

If the ONLY way to hike is with a sub 4-pound load, sleeping under a log and eating dried berries...then hiking 37 miles before I'm allowed to stop...then you're right. I'm no BPLer. And in that case I don't want to be.

Who knew hiking was a competition??

----------------------------------------

I wouldn't call going lighter a philosophy. Just a technique.

People can and should bring whatever they want.

There is no right way to backpack. There is no correct lightweight backpacking. Folks will share what works for them.

In the end, it is just walking -- not rocket science.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: King of Denial on 01/02/2013 11:15:13 MST Print View

I like how TiPi is starting to conform to BPL. I noticed he brings copies of his books then burns them after reading. No heavy covers/ binding glue and he only carries it half the way. Then it gets burned. Ooops- multi use too- books/ firestarter.

Caught you shaving weight TiPi!! I knew he'd conform!

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: King of Denial on 01/02/2013 12:02:14 MST Print View

"But why is it so against the philosophy that I like to bring a book to read in my awesome cuben shelter before I fall asleep?"

Nothing is wrong with that. Carry what you want. The issue is that TiPi takes 8 to 10 books and then claims we are all gram weenies at BPL.

James Byrnes
(backfeets1) - M

Locale: Midwest.... Missouri
Re: King of Denial on 01/02/2013 12:33:00 MST Print View

A simple solution to this issue is to establish a requirement to be considered a true lightweight backpacker. You must carry a minimal amount of luxury gear, ie 6 ozs.

Paul Magnanti
(PaulMags) - MLife

Locale: People's Republic of Boulder
Apples and Oranges and Pineapples on 01/02/2013 13:14:47 MST Print View

TW has a very specific and focused way of backpacking.

If I wanted to winter camp in the southeast Appalachians around Tellico +/- , I would honestly seek TW's advice.

But if I wanted to backpack in the southeast Appalachians, there are other places I may turn first. (but would trust TW's 'lay of the land' knowledge).

I am a very experienced backpacker in different terrain and environments but fairly new to alpine climbing.

Both involve overnight, hauling weight and being outside. But they are different activities.

I would not be the person I would seek for advice on what gear to carry for overnight climbing trips as I am still sorting it out myself. Some of my backpacking knowledge could certainly apply, but not everything I would suggest would be coming from experience. I know I adjusted my gear when I started a couple of years ago and sought the advice of my more experienced mountaineering friends.

In the same way, while I respect TW's winter camping knowledge for the SE Apps, I would not apply his advice outside of his knowledge set and given area. I suspect if TW used his skill set in say Utah it would be an interesting experience for him. ;) I car camped in Chaco Canyon over New Years. I suspect THAT would be more applicable to TW's experience. (Awesome place BTW. Not all the cool places are backpackable...)



He certainly has excellent knowledge fo winter camping in the SE Apps, but it is not really applicable to the activity on this board. No more than me giving advice on alpine climbing using my thru-hiker background. :)

Edited by PaulMags on 01/02/2013 13:18:18 MST.

Jake D
(JakeDatc) - F

Locale: Bristol,RI
Re: Re: King of Denial on 01/02/2013 13:16:22 MST Print View

nah, simple solution is to comment/post on what you know or are interested in. I have interest and knowledge in lightweight backpacking in NE area. I have no interest in hammocks or the NorthWest.. i don't post about that.

Tipi has no interest in lightweight backpacking... he does have interest in trolling so he continues to post in those areas to start flames. He has great knowledge in winter backpacking and I wish he would stick to that and pass it on to others. His desire to troll is greater than his desire to help others.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Re: Re: King of Denial on 01/02/2013 13:31:58 MST Print View

"A simple solution to this issue is to establish a requirement to be considered a true lightweight backpacker. You must carry a minimal amount of luxury gear, ie 6 ozs."

I hope you're being as sarcastic as I saw in the OP...

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Scientific Determination of who's UL or not. on 01/02/2013 16:31:15 MST Print View

Anything made of metal, dyneema or cuben is hereby considered "luxury" and must be counted during determination of "true lightweight backpacker", as described above. Anything made of wood, cotton or animal hide will be assessed based on the item.

Not my rules, just repeating what came down from on high.

Raquel Rascal
(flutingaround)

Locale: Rocky Mtn. West
hmm on 01/02/2013 21:47:29 MST Print View

I find the debate pretty funny and zoned out after reading half the posts.

The only reason I'm here is because I need to go light so I can continue doing what I love. I have a back injury and can't carry too much weight.

It would also be great if I could meet some more like minded hiking partners.

My point--we are all here for different reasons, and that is awesome!