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Having hard time justifying the weight of a jetboil
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Steven McAllister
(brooklynkayak) - MLife

Locale: Atlantic North East
Not all alky stoves are equal on 12/25/2012 05:14:10 MST Print View

Re: "It took so long to boil that I figured the extra ounces of alcohol offset the extra ounces of the Gigapower"

I have tried many alky stoves in adverse conditions. I also find problems with many designs, especially the cat stove.
Some are much better than others.

I know Zelph's(and others) newer models have evolved to be more ideal.
I settled on the Zelph Super Stove because:
1) Works better in the cold
2) Works better in wind
3) Most efficient
4) No spill design(very important)
5) More durable(but a little heavier)

Edited by brooklynkayak on 12/25/2012 05:15:13 MST.

Jacob Smith
(Wrongturn) - MLife

Locale: The Soda
Jetboil on 12/25/2012 06:03:06 MST Print View

My Jetboil Ti Sol is mandatory winter gear for me. The rest of my gear is so cut down and rides the safety edge that access to hot water and food quickly makes up for the major weight gain over my other cooking stoves and pots. I'm still under 10 pounds pack weight for winter before food and water, so I have no problem lugging the beast around with me.

For 3 season I use a Qiwiz wood stove or an alcohol stove. I'm a boil water cook though, so outside of roasting the occasional trout on a green stick, all I'm trying to achieve is hot water for cooking.

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Try an alky on 12/25/2012 07:15:56 MST Print View

I just weighed everything and it is 4.65oz. The pot is an Evernew ECA266 which is 2.6oz. It has become quite hard to find since the Tsunami (as with all Evernew pots).

The Caldera Cone and stove came from Anti Gravity Gear, but I think you can now buy direct from Trail Designs. I don't use the fuel bottle that came with the stove, for shorter trips, I use a clear travel bottle (for shampoo???) I bought at Target and it happens to nest perfectly with a measuring cup I have. For week long trips I use a 6oz mini water bottle.

I can boil 12oz of water with 15mL of fuel, which is about half an ounce I think, even in cold (and by cold, I mean down to ~15*F, not Arctic conditions). It is faster than most people think it is and on many trips it is as fast as most peoples canister stoves. It probably isn't as fast as canister stoves in the garage, but the least little bit of wind kills their performance.

IMO - Jetboils really only make sense on long trips without resupply or for large groups. They really are efficient stoves, they are just not real light for what they do so you need to boil a lot of water on a trip to make the weight worth it. That isn't saying that there is anything wrong with carrying one, I hike with a few people that really like them.

There are two problems with the Caldera Cones however that you should know about.

First is they are bulky and somewhat hard to transport. The "Caddy" that comes with the stove is heavier than the stove itself and I have never used it on a trip myself. I either roll it with my sleeping pad (CC Foam) or I use my pot to protect the bottom half, and a cut off Gatoraide bottle (that doubles as a measuring cup) to protect the top half (it weighs 0.8oz).

This can be solved with some pots (wider pots like the 900mL Evernews) with the Sidewinder. The sidewidner rolls up and fits inside the pot, which eliminates the issue of protecting the cone.

Second is for the most part they can only be used with one pot as they are sized for the pot. If you use multiple pots (say a small mug for solo trips and a larger pot for group trips, you would need two cones.

Yes 1000
(mamamia)
Alcohol Stove hmm on 12/25/2012 07:44:42 MST Print View

Couple of weeks ago, I went on my first winter camping and carried BatchStovez Alcohol stove to test it out in winter conditions. I also had my backup Canister stove from ebay ($8 stove) and a 4 season JetBoil canister.

Result was after spending 20-30 mins and 2-3 ounces of Alcohol the stove didn't really work in 24-27F cold.

Others in my group were chowing away their mountain house meal while I still struggled to get my stove going. I went back to my tent got the Canister stove and in 5 mins was hydrating my meals.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Alcohol Stove hmm on 12/25/2012 08:07:26 MST Print View

I use both a Caldera Cone/850ml and jetboil. All depends on the trip and conditions.

Group when sharing gear
- Always the Jetboil
- Fast and easy
- With a group of coffee drinkers and meals just more efficient

Solo or with group not sharing gear:
Cold weather:(below freezing)
- Always the jetboil for speed
- I like coffee and hot breakfast, so in cold conditions I don't like to wait

Above freezing:
- Alky stove
- My calder cone is two pieces and fits easily into my 850ml(both snow peak mini and MLD), so easy storage


However as many have said stick with what you like.

mik matra
(mikmik) - M

Locale: Allways on the move
After some feedback and thought.... on 12/25/2012 16:05:04 MST Print View

I started looking into the other boiling water options and yes there are stoves that are lighter out there but then I need a bowl/cup to boil water in and then there is the convenience factor that jetboil has that I am loosing too. I think by the time I would swap things over I would not be saving a large amount of weight that is worth loosing the convenience of the jetboil which in my oppinion are - not very wind affected, very efficient, neoprene cover, it's a mug as well, it is it's own wrapper as in everything fits inside, has a lid you can use for a sippy cup option or a strainer -

Thanks for the feedback though everyone :).

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Having hard time justifying the weight of a jetboil on 12/25/2012 17:02:26 MST Print View

Mik,

I have had a 45 gram cook setup (and even a stupid 26 gram cook setup) and I have owned the JB Sol Ti and the JB Sol Al.

The very basis of your original question is nearly impossible for anybody to really do anything other then share their own thoughts on what they prefer.

Can the weight of a JB be justified? Of course it can. If you are a hiker that usually has a 14 ounce pot setup, then an 8 oz pot setup can be justifiable.

Then again, is 100 bucks worth 6 ounces? For you, maybe. For the next guy, perhaps not.

So many other here have said it so well in their own ways. The simple fact is, you totally failed to give us any parameters to work with in order to truly provide a solid answer to your question. Things such as how many miles do you hike a year (and that sub divides into required questions/answers such as: are you a weekend hiker; are you a long distance hiker; if the latter, what trails do you typically hike on; and therein, how many days between resupplies, and the list could go on and one) . What is your existing setup. What temperatures do you typically hike in. Are you faced with laws that prohibit open flame cooking systems (such as SoCal PCT hikers have to deal with). And a whole lot of other variables that you did not give any indication to, which would help us answer your question.

With that, all you are doing is throwing a blank question out there... and thus, going to get very little more than a bunch of answers (myself include) that really do nothing to answer the question.


As have been posted (a lot) here at BPL over the last few years, there are some very solid numbers that have been presented to show that the JB Sol Al can be an extremely justifiable cooking setup, within some very specific situations, on some very specific trails, and under specific circumstances. Heck, the same could be said of "the beast", the MSR Reactor. I have seen a few documentations where the MSR Reactor is the best performing, best bang for the bucks, and best ounces to performance stove that there is - under a set of specific situations.

Nobody here can say that the JB is the best overall stove in the world. Nor any MSR stove, nor any can stove, nor any tea stove. We each have to find what our style of hiking is, and from there take the stove that best suites our style of hiking.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Try an alky on 12/25/2012 19:09:29 MST Print View

+1 on the Caldera Cone. I only tried a smaller .6 ti Evernew pot with my newer, second Caldera Cone once this last summer. I had purchased a CC for a .9 REI ti pot a year ago. Anyway, the cone/windscreen for the smaller .6 pot was just as tall as the cone for the larger (and taller) .9 pot. I thought that would make the smaller pot slower to heat water. Remember, I only tested this once, but the smaller pot boiled water faster and on less fuel. I want to reconfirm that, but another thing I noticed, since I had thought the smaller pot that was further from the flame, it would take more fuel, so I put a full oz. of denatured alcohol in the stove. After the water boiled, I poured about half back into my bottle. Nothing scientific, but promising. No wind, early summer temps in the northern Sierra. Also on my summer bp vacation in late July, I took two 4 oz. bottles of alky fuel for my CC and .9 ti pot, only used a little over half of one bottle in six nights of boiling water (1.5-2 cups) and one morning of water for instant oatmeal. Now I know I can get by with one 4 oz. bottle of fuel. Slowly edging down to a UL weight. I guesstimate that my pack weight last summer with a bear resistant food canister and one quart of water was in the high mid 20's with a weeks worth of food. Lowest I've ever been, usually I'm at 30 for 8 days. The Gigapower and the discontinued Coleman Exponent F1 I would highly recommend too. That F1 is really fast, more btu's than other small stoves like it by quite a bit. They used to come up on eBay, think I saw one a few days ago. I bought one for a friend last Fall for $21, mine was given to me as it would not shut off, nothing a little oil could not fix.
Duane

mik matra
(mikmik) - M

Locale: Allways on the move
Re: Re: Having hard time justifying the weight of a jetboil on 12/26/2012 04:09:46 MST Print View

John Abela,

Thanks for posting your 2 different stoves...it gave me an idea I can probably make my own stove as well and don't need to spend anything at all. Had an idea also how you could pick up the 'can' pot straight after boiling, by slipping on a neoprene sleeve. Here in Australia we call it a cooler to keep your cans of beer cool for longer while you hold onto it and drink.

I'll try to answer your questions you had for me as best I can;

1.I'm a short distance hiker (weeken warrior but we are planning a 4 nighter soon)
2.No need to resupply, short enough distances to take it all in one hit
3.Existing set up is the 800ml Aluminum Jet Boil
4.Our day temps are never or RARELY below 10celcius (50F), night time never lower than - 5celcius (23F)
6.We have open campfire for night time 'entertainment' so can cook with whatever method
7.Only use the stove for heating water for warm food and cup of coffee/tea and every now and again we boil our water for sterilization.
8.To cut bulk and save weight I want to use the cup/bowl the drinking cup for tea/coffee

That's it. HAve I missed anything?

Edited by mikmik on 12/26/2012 04:18:34 MST.

Jim Jessop
(StokeyJim) - MLife
Justifying Jetboil weight on 12/26/2012 05:13:48 MST Print View

I love the stability, reliability, versatility (wood, alcohol, esbit) and efficiency of my ti caldera cone set-up so much, I find it hard to think of using anything else.

This guy calculated, the way he would use it, for a 2 week crossing of Scotland the jetboil became more weight efficient (than esbit) after a week. He discusses here. One 100ml canister lasted him a 2 week trip which seems pretty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=RKEb-AmaFgU

For all the reasons above though, I'll be sticking with my caldera cone.

edited: to say the jetboil is discussed at 55 seconds in.

Edited by StokeyJim on 12/26/2012 05:16:58 MST.

todd harper
(funnymoney) - MLife

Locale: Sunshine State
Re: Having hard time justifying the weight of a jetboil on 12/26/2012 09:20:40 MST Print View

The price is right and the weight is low...

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=63730

It may help a little.

Devon Cloud
(devoncloud)

Locale: Southwest
no posts on stick burner stoves? on 12/28/2012 12:48:02 MST Print View

I would think that carying no fuel because you can burn sticks to me is the best option IMO. A titanium stick burner stove with a small titanium pot to me is a great way to not have to carry the extra weight of fuel, (canister or alcohol).

Around 2 ounces for a stove is pretty light (see the firefly from qiwiz). Throw in the no fuel weight savings you have also saved the extra weight of the pot too.


Here is a link to some of the tested wood stoves, but there are many more out there that perform just as good as these ones now too:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/wood_burning_stoves_sotm_report_2011.html?id=I2ByKHM3:69.20.70.86

Edited by devoncloud on 12/28/2012 13:06:51 MST.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
JetBoil for colder weather on 12/28/2012 13:28:53 MST Print View

Use the JB for colder and/or rainy weather. (Not winter)

For 3 season use get a Trail Designs Sidewinder ti Caldera Cone stove. Mine's a 3 cup pot size for solo or 2 person use. Mostly I use ESBIT (I prefer it to alky) but in winter I use the Inferno gassifier woodburning insert so I can melt lots of snow.

The Sidewinder and Tri Ti stoves are very light and their efficiency will amaze you no matter whether you use alky, ESBIT or wood.