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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 14:39:36 MST Print View

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2240096/Feathers-ripped-birds-backs-gaping-wounds-sewn-pain-relief-The-barbaric-cost-winter-coat.html

more at link ...



Feathers are ripped from the bodies of live creatures, leaving them bleeding and in pain. Others are a by-product of the foie gras industry — so cruel it’s been banned in Britain.
The most prized down, and therefore the one that pays the pluckers the most, is hand-stripped from live birds.

Marcus says: 'The men and women from the brigades work without feeling, grabbing terrified geese by their wings or legs, sometimes breaking them, always hurting them, as they tear out the birds’ feathers.
'When it’s over and the birds are bleeding, the wounds are roughly sewn up with a needle and thread without any anaesthetic.
'When their feathers grow back after about five weeks, it happens all over again — and all so you can have a nice winter coat.'
The plucking brigades usually harvest around 150 grams of down per goose — enough to fill an average-sized pillow. Three or four birds are needed to fill a coat.

Even manufacturers who state they don’t use down from live-plucked birds cannot be 100 per cent sure of their claim.
Marcus says: 'Brigades go from farm to farm, stripping the birds as they go, then these feathers are sold to brokers and middlemen who mix live-plucked feathers with those recovered from slaughtered animals, depending on the quality of the mix their customers ask for.
One broker told me it was a bit like the drug trade — you can start off with a high-quality, pure product then you cut it with lower-quality stuff and end up with different products at different prices.
'It’s impossible for manufacturers to be sure their down hasn’t been sourced from birds that were treated cruelly.'

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 15:27:56 MST Print View

Dang you! That was so funny that I sneezed pate' on my keyboard.

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 16:40:36 MST Print View

As long as I'm warm...

I want a turkey sandwich now.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: The local and global cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 17:03:25 MST Print View

Are polyester, PU, and Teflon better solution ? ...

ChemE

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 18:03:36 MST Print View

Full disclosure: I own down jackets and I eat meat...

I don't know what the answer is... but if there is some way that we can ensure plucking with reasonably minimal fuss -- and slaughtering by using the quickest methods -- I am willing to pay more for my clothing and food -- and I think many here would as well.

But let's face it -- our industries are pretty adept at keeping the unpleasantness away from us -- and most all of us (myself included) are sufficiently content not to dig too deeply.

There are few good answers...

Theron Rohr
(theronr) - F

Locale: Los Angeles, California
Re: Re: The local and global cost of your winter coat on 12/18/2012 22:32:38 MST Print View

"Are polyester, PU, and Teflon better solution ? ..."

Better than what's described in the article? Yes.

Edited by theronr on 12/18/2012 22:33:31 MST.

Kevin Burton
(burtonator) - F

Locale: norcal
Re: Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/19/2012 01:15:21 MST Print View

I eat meat, fish, own down jackets, etc.

I just try to make sure I'm not a monster.

I need to be able to explain to my kids what is happening.

If I can't go and do it myself then it's wrong. You can't outsource your inhumanity.

I don't have any problem slaughtering a grass fed cow that lived a GOOD life on a farm with wide open grasslands ...

Jacob Smith
(Wrongturn) - MLife

Locale: The Soda
Re: on 12/20/2012 06:21:24 MST Print View

I'm surprisingly unmoved by this sensationalist article. Is 900 fill extra evil?

a b
(Ice-axe)
Life on 12/20/2012 06:37:31 MST Print View

.

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/09/2013 20:37:40 MST.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Not right... on 12/20/2012 09:59:55 MST Print View

I understand the survival of the fittest, and food chain ideals. But this is just torture, sickening.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Not right... on 12/20/2012 10:41:48 MST Print View

Food

... not right at all. But it is how we vote with our dollars...

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat - caution on 12/20/2012 13:52:25 MST Print View

Just bear in mind a few things:

The photo has been used by an extremist group to create the maximum impact.

You have no idea at all whether the photo is representative of typical down farming.

The down is plucked at the time of year when the birds are moulting anyhow.

I have severe doubts about the claim it is done every 5 weeks throughout the year.

The 'other' birds are simply slaughtered for meat; down birds often live to beyond 20.

Cheers

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Down on 12/20/2012 14:47:00 MST Print View

This is certainly a good discussion to have. This article raises some interesting questions, but to me it appears likely to be quite sensationalized.

- The discussion of birds needing stitches after plucking seems abnormal and is likely a red herring in this discussion. It's not in the interests of the down pluckers to be so violent that the birds require stitches. Surely it's much quicker to not tear the bird open in the first place. I'm sure it happens occasionally, but I highly doubt it's the norm.

- Birds that are being raised for foie-gras and supposedly are plucked twice in their short 12 week life would surely have extremely poor quality down. This live-plucked down would likely get tossed in with the poor quality 'down' that is harvested from the regular food system. Here, the foie-gras down would be a drop in a bucket, and is likely only mentioned in this article in order to piggyback on the negative inconnotations which foie-gras has (rightfully so). I suspect foie-gras down has virtually nothing to do with the ~800 down that is commonly used by hikers.

- If I was a bird, I'd much rather get plucked once a year when I'm moulting anyways and live to 20, than get killed for food at 8-25 weeks. I suspect that much of the ~800 down that is common here comes from older birds that are being plucked like this. I don't have a problem with live plucking as long it's done reasonably and without excessive hardship for the birds.

Edited by dandydan on 12/20/2012 14:54:41 MST.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
From the Cattle's Point of View... on 12/20/2012 19:23:54 MST Print View

Free food and water. Free shelter in inclement weather. Free house keeping services. Every day is a Saturday. Never need to work for food. And really, only ONE bad day in our lives, ever. And you humans? We all have to go when our time comes. But how many bad days have you had just lately?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Down on 12/21/2012 02:05:30 MST Print View

> I suspect that much of the ~800 down that is common here comes from older birds
> that are being plucked like this.
The older the bird, the higher quality you get. Well known in the down trade.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 12/21/2012 02:05:51 MST.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Fallacies on 12/23/2012 12:22:26 MST Print View

Want a product with zero negative impact? Harvest it yourself. Chances are, the oils in your food are the result of mass starvations and killings of thousands of rainforest species in South America. Your french fries are the result of monocultures that result in pesticide use so high, fellow humans are inevitably afflicted with cancers and birth defects.

Zero impact doen't exist. We're heads and tails above the leather industry (no pun intended.)

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: Re: The barbaric cost of your winter coat on 12/23/2012 16:21:39 MST Print View

"Dang you! That was so funny that I sneezed pate' on my keyboard."

Erik -- Where did you get pate in CA? I thought it was illegal.