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John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: I like Guterman but. if you want to try something else... on 12/23/2012 15:59:41 MST Print View

I found this web site...

http://www.redrockthreads.com/mettler-thread/mettler-metrosene-thread.asp

...and the prices for their spools, mini cones and large cones seem very reasonable.

Color choices get smaller as the cone size goes up but there are still plenty to choose from. There are 24 colors to choose from at the 547 yard size and 21 colors to choose from at the 1000m size cone.

If you stick with the 150m spools there are 239 colors available. ;-)

Shipping 1

and...

Shipping 2

I did a little internet research and it seems that the thread size / weight is 50wt.

http://sewingsupplywarehouse.com/metmetplus.html

It's a different web site but I believe the information is relevant to the Red Rock Threads products. It seems that these are two different sites selling the same products.

The prices at the Sewing Supply Warehouse are pretty competitive also.

Party On,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 12/23/2012 16:18:22 MST.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
"Roger, please help" on 12/23/2012 16:25:10 MST Print View

Lance,

Until Roger arrives, you can read his comments on this subject at:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=70227

and here,

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=40439


There's tons more through BPL search, but hope the above are helpful.

David Scheidt
(dscheidt) - F
Re: Re: Is Gutterman thread necessary? on 12/23/2012 18:09:06 MST Print View

Lance,

First all these sizes for Gutterman and Amann threads are in metric ticket numbers, bigger nubmers are thinner threads. (it's, roughly, the number of 1km hanks of thread you could make from a kilogram of thread. Tex is weight in grams of a kilometer of thread; roughly, there are allowed ranges.)

Tera is spun continuous filament polyester thread. That means it's endless strands, spun into thead. Mara is staple polyester (meaning relatively short pieces) spun into strands, and then two of those spun together. The stuff sold as 'sew all' is just mara 100, in smaller spools; it's not impossible the lubrication is different, but that doesn't matter to anyone not sewing at high speed. (And if you have domestic machine, you're not.)

Rasant is continuous strand polyester, that has a covering of staple cotton. For a given linear density, a plain continuous filament thread like tera or A&E's Anefil will be stronger than a covered one. (I'm pretty sure Amann make one too, but I'm not familar with their range of products.) The cotton covering gives it better needle heat resistance, which doesn't matter if you're not sewing at sustained high speed. It also gives a slightly better disappearing thread in seams. I don't know that any of that matters for most of the things people here are going to use it for.

I suspect Roger's preference are based on good experience. Amann make fine thread, but nothing better than any other high quality industrial thread companies do, and nothing worth buying from australia if you're in the US. Some of the things he says about other threads, which are wrong, make the cynic in me wonder if he's a shareholder. There are any number of companies making thread that are perfectly suitable for making lightweight gear. Selection should be based on quality, ease of sourcing, and price, pretty much in that order. If you live in or near a garment district, you should be able to get all sorts of quality thread.

About the 'Water resistant' coatings: if you want water proof seams, seal them. Coatings won't hurt, but the thread still wicks water in.

Lance Marshall
(Lancem) - F - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: Is Gutterman thread necessary? on 12/24/2012 11:12:11 MST Print View

Samuel,
Thanks for the links. Good infomation there and it answers my question.

David,
Thanks for the additional technical information.

I'll still stay away from any cotton blend thread. I'm not to the point where "the thread is screaming through the eye of the needle and the needle gets hot."

Thanks again.

Edited by Lancem on 12/24/2012 11:18:02 MST.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
relax on 12/24/2012 15:49:08 MST Print View

I've been sewing gear for 40 years; I've used a variety of different threads; I've never had a seam fail unless I was careless about it. My point being that getting the best thread is mostly a benefit in terms of less breakage as you sew and other conveniences.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Is Gutterman thread necessary? on 12/25/2012 21:38:04 MST Print View

> What characteristics of Rasant thread make it your personal choice, particularly
> since it's part cotton?
Technically, it is what is called 'core-spun' thread. That basically means the polyester core is surrounded by a sheath of cotton fibres. With this design you get the strength of the PE core of continuous filaments and the cotton sheath provides an abrasion buffer and a heat buffer and also a bit more friction when the threads are locked together in the stitch. (As opposed to a heterogenous mixture of chopped filaments all spun together.) And the thread is a bit more round.

Some claim the cotton sheath swells up when it gets wet and fills the needle hole. I have me doubts about that one, as the amount of swelling would be a bit small... On the other hand, the cotton sheath is probably good at giving silicone proofing something to bond to.

100% PE thread such as Tera 80 (which I have never used) and Amann Serifil can be tricky stuff to handle. The shiny surface can make it tricky to adjust the tension on a machine mainly designed for a semi-cotton surface. The hard-surface 100% PE thread can get all kinked up after going through some tensioning systems. In some cases you have to be careful about whether the bobbin should unwind at the side or give the thread off over the end. Pulling it off the end of the bobbin puts a slight twist in the thread, but some threads seem to be designed to be handled this way. But poly-cotton has none of these complications, afaik.

Cheers
PS: Rasant 75 indeed: 70 was a typo (or mistake).

Jason L
(Jason_Loose_Arrow) - F

Locale: Yosemite
Is Gutterman theread necessary? on 12/25/2012 23:16:12 MST Print View

For what it's worth, I've been using the Mara 120 sold at sewtrue.com with much success for both my Consew 226 and my home machine. It's for lighter duty applications, but it's been great where the Tera has been just too heavy. But, my focus has been on sleeping envelopes, so YMMV.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Is Gutterman theread necessary? on 12/25/2012 23:52:37 MST Print View

I've been using the crummy fabric store Gutterman for years

I've probably used 6 spools of 1000 meters each

I've used it for tents, clothes, packs,...

I have noticed the thread breaks on straight seams of silnylon tent right at the corners where the silnylon stretches but the polyester thread doesn't so I don't fault the thread. When I use a zigzag stitch near the corner it avoids the problem.

I can't think of any other thread failure.

I use two overlapping rows of bar tack to attach shoulder strap to pack - probably the most demanding application. Hasn't failed in years. Maybe with better thread I could use one row or something.

Maybe I'll get some of the good stuff, or maybe I'm too lazy and hate to "fix what ain't broke"

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Mettler on 12/26/2012 00:24:18 MST Print View

Doesn't anybody use Mettler thread?

Some that I have is Mettler Poly Sheen 702 #40. 100% polyester.

I got it for repair of a North Face tent one time, and I was told that it was _the_ thread to use. It seems like decent stuff.

--B.G.--

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Mettler on 12/26/2012 10:46:06 MST Print View

Bob,

I use Mettler, both in my thread injector and serger. It is good stuff and I like it better than Gutterman, although I've never had much problem with Gutterman. I've found a failed seam is typically user error more so than a thread issue.

Ryan

Javan Dempsey
(jdempsey)

Locale: The-Stateless-Society
Re: Re: Mettler on 12/27/2012 23:32:43 MST Print View

Mettler "Metrosene" was previously mentioned. It's probably the best quality (in a utility size) thread available for home machines in a variety of colors.

It's good.

Store stocked Gutterman thread is decent also. Mettler threads are impossible to source in cones. Gutterman isn't, and they offer a great quality mono filament thread, that's a little thick for 7/10 denier fabrics, but great for anything heavier. It's much stronger than the average Gutterman or Mettler threads. I think it's called Tera 80. The Mara 120 is the lighter double spun stuff, that's ideal for 7d fabrics, but I think I prefer metrosene plus for that.


Bear in mind that ultimately, small spools will feed better for home machines that they're designed and spun for. Cones will feed better vertically on commercial machines, quid pro quo. Each machine likes different thread.


All this information is only relevant to sewing light weight fabrics. Making packs and shelters requires totally different and much heavier threads.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Mettler "Metrosene" threads are impossible to source in cones. on 12/28/2012 09:35:48 MST Print View

Javan,

I stumbled upon a source for the Metrosene cones.

http://www.redrockthreads.com/mettler-thread/mettler-metrosene-thread.asp

There are 24 colors to choose from at the 547 yard size and 21 colors to choose from at the 1000m size cone.

Also available from...

http://sewingsupplywarehouse.com/metmetplus.html

Party On,

Newton

Javan Dempsey
(jdempsey)

Locale: The-Stateless-Society
Re: Re: Mettler "Metrosene" threads are impossible to source in cones. on 12/28/2012 12:38:06 MST Print View

Wow, good find man!


Too bad I've got a lifetime supply of Gutterman. 8000m cones with 4 cone minimums, and the fact that I'm not really sewing much these days.. =\

Siti Asiah Radzi
(orgajr) - F

Locale: South East Asia
Rasant WR on 01/08/2013 22:42:53 MST Print View

I got the response from amann local dealer here regarding the treatment process of Rasant 120 WR. Its made out of a fluorocarbon DWR process where its applied with lick-rollers and following a condensation process under specific temperature, its get a water-repellent properties.
And as its use fluorocarbon, its not suitable for silicon base sealant to works together. My opinion, for best application, seamgrip it from inside after sewn. So its stop the water very well before it has a chance to get in..