Where: Dewey Pt out of Badger Pass Ski Area
When: January 11-13 (additional days mid-week could be added depending on interest)
Distance: 4 or 3.5 Mi, depending which trail you take to get there
Difficulty: Easy
Travel: Bring chains. There will be travel restrictions on Glacier Pt Road.
Who: BPLers and their friends. No dogs per park rules.

Dewey Point

Wilderness Permits are required. 15 people per permit. Blank permits are on the outside of the Badger Pass Ranger Station. They do not have a quota system in the winter. Park in the overnight parking only. It is marked.


As requested, I am starting a headcount list with the day people plan to show up (Friday or Saturday).

David - Friday
Jacob - Friday
Jack + son - Saturday
Kat - Friday
Marc - Friday
Rick - Friday
Adam - Friday
Brian - Saturday
Andy - Saturday
Kevin - Saturday
Chris - Saturday
Richard - ?
Kevin - Maybe
Mike - ?
Jack- ?

Edited by Davidpcvsamoa on 01/09/2013 10:06:33 MST.

I'm in.

mee2

I need to move south a bit. Can't wait for S.M.A.R.T. to get to Petaluma. I'm missing too many good trips with you guys.

Edited by kthompson on 12/15/2012 23:49:20 MST.

Jack Elliot PM'd me and says he is likely in for Saturday night. He can't post for some reason.

Ken - It would be nice if you could join us more often. At least there is a lot of great backpacking close to you and we have a first class trip organizer/host upstate. People are willing to come to you.

Per my phone message Dave, I am tentative. Also, this is the trip that I was putting together so if anyone was expressing interest in that one, this is one in the same

Yea I can post again, thanks Roger C. for all the help.

I'm in plus some friends, I think Adam Criswell, Brian Conrad, Andy Glass. Kevin Smith, and maybe a friend from work. Brian and Andy were the 2 guys that we met there 2 years ago in that blizzard, BRING ON THE SNOW!

I'll, keep you posted.


Jack

Very interested for Saturday night, possibly +1. Are you planning on hiking in on Friday?

Hi Guys,

I am totally in for this trip!

Adam C.

Great group so far and more are still welcome.

Chris- I was thinking of taking Friday off or maybe working a half day and hiking or skiing in Friday. I am guessing most people are in for Saturday. Is anyone else interested in starting Friday?

I'm interested in hiking in on Fri., but just not possible. My son may be going also.

I'm interested In Saturday night, also possibly +1. Sounds like fun!

Andrew

I would be interested in going in on Friday. I will see if I can get the day off.

I'm interested on Friday but won't know more until the end of the month

I missed last years fun in the snow at Dewey Pt so I'm going to give it another go.
It will be fun as always!
BTW - I'll be in Yosemite for New Years.

I need to hurry up and get my gear... which santa is helping out with.

But I'd like to attend if there is room.

Definitely still room. Don't let a lack of gear stop you. I know a lot of people coming have two or three of everything and may be able to help. Just post what you think you need to borrow.

Two years ago I talked to the ranger at the A frame hut at Badger Pass about this topic. The permit requires you to take proper care with food storage but as of 2010 did not require the Bear canisters. the Yosemite bears as well as other critters are active during the winter. We used OP sacks and buried our food away from the tents just in case.

The permit also prohibits the gathering and burning of wood.

David, can we find out how many people are allowed to actually go i.e.. quota. We may hike in late Fri. on your permit. I don't want to get there Sat. morning to find out that the quota has been filled already. Our head count is around 12-13 right now. I think my son wants to go also, he's never been winter hiking so I'll have to lend him some gear. If you call, will they give you the quota number for Dewy Point?

Jack

Hey guys, looks like I am out unfortunately. I just started a second job and I have to work. Have fun!

I would like to join . I can take Friday off and possibly carpool with someone?
Can't wait!

The dates are for a Fri-Sun trip ... for those of us who cannot get Friday completely off, can you post the rough itinerary so we can possibly drive up Friday evening/night and figure out where you all are at? :)

Thanks!

-mox

I have the Friday off, so I would like to hike out then. I have also taken a couple of days before off and will possibly be camping in the valley to do some winter photography. If anyone else is interested let me know.

I was up in Yosemite for the last 5 days. 1 1/2' of snow in the Valley and lots up at Badger Pass. Nights at Badger have been in the teens and twenties during the day.
I spoke with the Rangers at Badger Pass. 15 people per permit. Blank permits are on the outside of the Badger Pass Ranger Station. They do not have a quota system in the winter. Park in the overnight parking only. It is marked.
I'm looking forward to the trip. It will be a blast!

This photo was taken on the drive out of Badger Pass.

Edited by rickniemi on 01/02/2013 21:50:39 MST.

Nice Richard,

Thanks for the update, I can't wait.

Jack

Thanks for the helpful information Richard. I will update the original post with this information. See you all soon!

Edited by Davidpcvsamoa on 01/02/2013 22:34:24 MST.

I just did this hike a few days before Christmas. I had a great time and hope you do, too.

I snowshoed and my partners skiied. It worked out well because the last three miles in to Dewey Point were snowed over and no tracks remained. I was able to break a trail for them. Snow was a fantastic corn like layer. Wonderful!

I would suggest eating at the Curry Bar, in Curry Village, Yosemite. It has moderately priced eats (one of the lowest in Yosemite), a good cafe selection of foods for the vegetarian and up, a fantastic Mammoth Double Nut Brown Ale, and a warm, cozy fireplace.

Edited by Steamboat_Willie on 01/03/2013 04:07:57 MST.

David and all,
Could we have a list of who is going and what days they are getting there?
Also, does anyone know if there are enough suitable trees for hammocking?
Thanks!

David, I cannot take all of Friday off, butI can leave work( Santa Cruz) around 9 or 10 am...

Edited by Kat_P on 01/03/2013 10:38:22 MST.

Kat, There are enough trees to Hammock.

Edited by Davidpcvsamoa on 01/09/2013 10:04:32 MST.

Is anyone driving up from San Francisco or near a BART station on Saturday morning that I could get a ride with? Or even Friday evening?

I could drive if necessary, but would prefer to leave the car behind for my girlfriend to use.

Looks like I'll be heading up early Sat. morning with Me, my son, Brian, Andy, and maybe Kevin S. You can add my son Jeremy to the list.

Jack

Edited by jumpbackjack on 01/03/2013 19:29:24 MST.

Those coming in of Friday: What time are you planning on starting? Should we try to start together or just meet out at the point? If starting separately, should each person be responsible for their own permit?

Edited by macrophyllum on 01/04/2013 10:21:47 MST.

Chris S and I will be heading up early Saturday. I'm heading out from Sunnyvale then picking him up at the Dublin BART if anybody wants to carpool.

"If starting separately, should each person be responsible for their own permit?"

Yes. If you are separate, then you are not in the group.

A park ranger might stop you at any time and ask to see your permit.

--B.G.--

I believe that only the group going in on Friday to spend the night out at Dewey Pt. needs the permit. Others going in on Saturday will join the group with the permit, up to 15 allowed. No one who is just snowshoeing or skiing needs a permit at Badger Pass so no rangers will be checking for permits unless you are camping overnight. While going to Dewy Pt. the Sat. group should not need any permit-their permit is already at the site. This is the same as when someone skis or snowshoes ahead of the group-no permit needed until camping.

Actually, based on what happened two years ago, with Jack going in we'll all need to monitor the situation to make sure another blizzard doesn't arrive and keep them up there drinking beer and eating the Badger Pass cafeteria food all night and day until they can be dug out and Rangers caravan them out. With Jack along AND some of the others who got stuck with him, who knows what will happen? Of course if Kevin S. and Jack's son surely everything will be just fine. Oh, sure! Goo luck on that.

Jane

Some interesting words may be found on page 21 of the current Yosemite National Park Superintendent's Compendium:

• When Glacier Point road is closed due to winter conditions, camping is prohibited in the following
areas:
• Within 1½ miles of the Badger Pass ski area boundary
• Summit Meadow, Dewey Point and the Glacier Point area.

===============
I don't write the rules. I just read them.

--B.G.--

When I spoke with the Badger Pass Rangers last week I told them I was going to be camping out near Dewey Point in a few weeks. They told me to camp out of visual site of the trail and I will be okay.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildwinter.htm
Quote from the page listed above -
"In general, winter Wilderness users must camp at least one mile away from a plowed road. Camping is not allowed within 1½ miles of the Badger Pass ski area boundary. Camping is also not allowed at Summit Meadow, Dewey Point, or Glacier Point (camping is permitted near both points, but not at the points themselves)."

I'll go with what they told me and what it says on their website.
Rick

Edited by rickniemi on 01/04/2013 15:32:00 MST.

Another good place to try is out near Sentinel Dome, or across the road from the Sentinel Dome access trail. You get more of a view toward Half Dome. Once you are 50 yards or so off the road, nobody will know that you are there.

--B.G.--

If anybody has a tarp to bring for a kitchen set up, you might want to bring it, incase the weather turns bad then we have something to cook under out of the weather.

I'm bringing at least one 8x10. and maybe a 10x10

Just saying!

Jack

@Jack
I will be bringing one of my tarps for my hammock set up. If need be we can huddle under...

Here's the weather report so far.


Thursday A 20 percent chance of snow. Partly sunny, with a high near 36. North wind 5 to 10 mph.
Thursday Night A 20 percent chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 21. North northwest wind 10 to 15 mph becoming northeast in the evening.
Friday Mostly sunny, with a high near 35. East northeast wind 5 to 10 mph becoming north northwest in the morning. Winds could gust as high as 15 mph.
Friday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 23. Northeast wind around 10 mph.
Saturday Mostly sunny, with a high near 37. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph.
Saturday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 26. East northeast wind 10 to 15 mph.
Sunday Mostly sunny, with a high near 38. East northeast wind 5 to 10 mph becoming northwest in the morning. Winds could gust as high as 15 mph.

Hey Jack.

What elevation/area of Yosemite is that forecast for? Those lows sound pretty optimistic to me. Is that for the valley? I was up on Mt. Diablo a few nights ago... and it was damn near that cold up there.

@ Jacob,

That was from the NOAA web site and it was for the area of Cathedral peak and Brideveil falls. I think that should be pretty close to whre we are going.


Jacob I think you were right, I did another check and the forcast is a little different, but not much. I think before it was around 4,000 ft elevation, even though I clicked on Cathedral Peak it was still picking up the valley floor, so I redid it at almost 7,000 ft and here's what it gave me.


Thursday A 20 percent chance of snow showers. Partly sunny, with a high near 23. Calm wind becoming north northwest around 5 mph in the morning.
Thursday Night A 20 percent chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 10. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 25 mph.
Friday Mostly sunny, with a high near 21. North northeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 20 mph.
Friday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 14. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 20 mph.
Saturday Mostly sunny, with a high near 25. Northeast wind around 15 mph, with gusts as high as 20 mph.
Saturday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 16. Northeast wind 10 to 15 mph.
Sunday Mostly sunny, with a high near 27. Northeast wind 5 to 10 mph becoming northwest in the morning.



Jack

Edited by jumpbackjack on 01/07/2013 08:40:22 MST.

Thanks for the info Jack.

I'm a freak when it comes to weather checking, that's all :)

I plugged in the lat and long into NOAA just now and it looked pretty similar to your original post. It's the weather so anything can change, but teens overnight seems more probable to me, esp if it's clear out. I've also used www.mountain-forecast.com in the past as another source, and they've been pretty good at predicting the weather at elevation (if curious try a search for Sentinel Dome @ 8100 ft).

Any way you cut it, it's gonna be brisk!

Edited by JacobD on 01/07/2013 08:55:47 MST.

@ Jacob,

Brisk is a nice way of putting it, either way we better bring our warm undies!

This just made up my mind on which shelter to bring, looks like the double wall free standing 2 man heavy tent that me and my son will share.

Jack, and Jacob, how close will we be to Badger Pass? Because the forecast there calls for lows as low as 5 Fahrenheit...

Also, do we have confirmation that no fires are allowed? Not even if we lug some Duraflame logs up there?

Here are the snow conditions, temperature, road conditions, etc according to the Badger Pass Ski website.
http://www.yosemitepark.com/DailySnowReport.aspx

Park Road Conditions:
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

This is another website I use for weather forecasts.
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=37.67512527892127&lon=-119.67063903808594

I will be arriving Friday or Saturday. It depends on what happens at work.

Update: If you haven't camped in the teens before you might want to know that canister stoves don't work very well at 15 degrees unless they are designed for this type of weather. You will end up with a little tiny flame. I know from experience. You can warm up your canister by keeping it in your pocket before use.

Can't wait!
Rick

Edited by rickniemi on 01/07/2013 11:28:50 MST.

@ Jack
Brisk? Well, yeah... I didn't wanna be too much of a downer :)

@ Kat
Not too far from Badger Pass. I wouldn't be surprised if temps dip that low, I wouldn't mind if we get cloud cover around bedtime. A fire would be nice. Last time I had a bitter cold, oops- I mean brisk, snow outing like this the fire sure helped lift the spirits.

@ Richard
That's the same weather site I checked earlier (NOAA) with the lat and long... it must have updated because now it's showing lows of 12-15. In any event, I think preparing for 0 is a good idea.


I was thinking of maybe bringing my SL5 (just the outer) to pitch for a cook tent / room for a few to huddle up out of the breeze. I'm on the fence whether I should bring (or want to carry) it. Any opinions?

Edited by JacobD on 01/07/2013 11:15:22 MST.

I have a catalitic herater I was thinking of bringing, it runs off those 10 oz bottles and will last 8 hrs. I don't know how well it will work in those temps, I've only used it down into the mid 20's.

I also made a heater out of a quart paint can, it uses denatured alcohol and toilet paper roll for the wick, it will burn for about 3 hrs, but if you have it near silnylon that could be, how do you say "hazardous" but it does work and packs smaller and lighter.

@ Kat the trail head is only a few hundred yards from Badger Pass Lodge, and from there it's about 3.5 miles to Dewy Point.

Edited by jumpbackjack on 01/07/2013 21:29:21 MST.

This might be a good trip to sleep in a snowcave. Relative to the outside temperature they are fairly warm. The snowcaves I've slept in hovered around 30 even though the outside temperatures were in the 20s with super strong winds. One of the snowcaves I help build got up to the low 60s inside with two people working and a candle burning. Maybe we were just full of hot air but it sure felt good.
Rick

Looks more and more likely that we will get snow. 30% chance on Saturday and 50% on Sunday. Plus Jack is coming so that ups the chance some more...
I have enough hear to staybwarm in a hammock, but I am wondering about hanging under trees if snow starts falling off in big chunks, off the branches. Not to speak of branches themselves. Any input?

Snow falling off of the branches onto the tarp. It is for this reason I am going to the ground.

I was afraid of that Marc. You don't think that an extra steep pitch and a continuos ridgeline would do the job? I ask hopefully.

It really depends on how cold it will be. If it is warmer the snow will be wet and heavy. If it is colder the snow will be lighter and will break up as gut falls. The continuous ridge sounds like a good idea. I am curious about how hammocks faire in these conditions so will be watching to see how you do.

Are they windsweptwith branches growing mainly in one direction? Any smaller trees?

Have a great trip guys I wish I could go!

Jeffery Pine and Red Fir.

--B.G.--

Thanks Bob. I am wondering if there are any smaller pines and firs, with less likelihood of big snow laden branches.

Here are a couple of pictures of the area from 2 years ago.

If there is a big snow, then the branches are laden with it. Only if there is a big wind will the snow blow off.

For all of the times that I have been in that area, we have managed to find a small clearing within the dense forest. That way, our tents are close enough to the westward trees for some wind protection, yet they are far enough away that they don't get a snow dump.

Keep your eyes open. There may be some Great Gray Owls closeby to the southeast.

--B.G.--

In case anyone was wondering, I just called to confirm the bear canister requirement in the winter and they said that canisters are not required at Dewey Point. Per the Superintendent's Compendium on the website:

"An exception to the above requirements is granted for winter use in designated areas within Yosemite Wilderness. Overnight visitors using skis or snowshoes in the following areas are not required to store food in bear resistant food canisters: 1) above 7200 feet in elevation or 2) above 6800 feet and within a ½ mile of a marked ski trail. Overnight visitors are required to hang their food to protect it from wildlife. The winter use exception is in effect from December 15th of each year until March 30th the following year unless otherwise designated by the Superintendent."

Anyone bringing Altai Hok's to this... ? I'm curious to see them in action. :)
No place here in the Bay Area to rent them yet, the nearest being Truckee ...

-mox

As a winter camping newbie, I could use a little shelter advice for this trip. My options are an MLD Duomid, Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 or REI Arete ASL 2. I'd love to bring the Duomid, but I recently got it off gear swap and it literally just arrived yesterday, so I haven't been able to practice setting it up at all, let alone on snow. Then again, it seems like there will be plenty of experienced people there this weekend that could help me make sure it is set up properly.

If I go the tent route, the Copper Spur would be preferable since it's 1+ pounds lighter. Do you think this will be fine based on the forecast mentioned above? Or does it make more sense to just go with the Arete, which has solid fabric all the way up and seems like it would handle any potential snow better?

Edited by csteutterman on 01/08/2013 17:56:38 MST.

Well, you're going up on Saturday just like I am. I'm taking a mid (GoLite SL3.) I have never set it up in the snow.

That said, having set it up previously, they're pretty stupid-simple. Stake out 1-2 points, raise the center post, hold tension while you stake out the rest ... then just tighten/adjust as needed .. just gotta let the stakes set before tensioning.

Of the two tents you posted either one should work. It's going to be stupid-cold but not much snowfall to worry about for loading, so you may want to forego the mesh/mid and go double-wall.

I believe that there is enough snow for a snow-cave/quinzee, which will be warmer than anything else. (I've never built one, so we'll see ... will have the SL3 set up long before I try. :)

Weather forecasts generally show between 5-6F at night, with one site giving -2F at 4am. A snowcave/quinzee is supposed to keep you right around 32F ... a huge difference. We'll see if we get up there in time to play around and have time for it to set. :)

-mox

Hi All,

I am heading to the valley tomorrow morning. I plan on taking the shuttle up to Badger Pass on Friday so I will be at the trailhead around 9:30 or 12:00 depending on how my morning goes. Looking forward to seeing you all there!

@Chris

A floorless pyramid (with groundsheet) makes a great shelter in the snow. Even if you don't practice pitching it at home, pyramids are so easy to pitch I doubt you'd have to fiddle with it for long. I'll be pitching a mid, not sure who else but like you said, there should be plenty of folks around who can steer you in the right direction. Edit to add: the main thing (you may not have considered with the pyramid being new to you) you don't want to have trekking pole failure, take a reliable set of poles if you depend on them to pitch shelter.

A tip: Use snow stakes, they just make getting set up a little easier/quicker. If you don't have or can't get some, the longest Easton stakes you can find will be next best. If you don't have any long ones, the 6" ones can be slightly buried for better hold... but getting them out the next day may be an exercise in frustration, even with a shovel

Edited by JacobD on 01/08/2013 21:27:13 MST.

Post pics when you get there, if you have signal, so those of us coming up a bit later know what we're getting into ... :P

-mox

Hi!
I'm new here, but have been using info from the forums for a while.

Anyway, is there more room on this trip? Have plenty of backpacking experience but none in snow and this sounds like a great time to start.

The latest forecast is calling for the last snow showers to be on Thursday, with a clear and cold weekend. Temps look like as low as 3 F.

Jack glad you can make it. You have been added to the unofficial list.

@ Kat - Brrr. That is a cold forecast. This may turn out to be the coldest weather I have experienced.

Jack and Mike, you guys are welcome to carpool with Chris and I if you'd like. We are leaving early Saturday morning. Chris is taking BART from SF to Dublin and I'm picking him up there at 6:50 AM.

Andrew

What are the best foods to bring, other than they be high caloric, given that we could stay below freezing the entire time?
I think shovels will be a good tool to bring, even just for staying busy and warm. Are most people bringing some kind of shovel?

I'm bringing a snow-shovel.

If you don't already have your Cal Campfire Permit for 2013 you can get it online at:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sequoia/passes-permits/?cid=fsbdev3_059516

Rick

"If you don't already have your Cal Campfire Permit for 2013 you can get it online"

A California campfire permit is irrelevant in Yosemite National Park.

--B.G.--

California Campfire Permits are only for national forests.

You need them on BLM land, too.

While Yosemite sits within a national forest (Stanislaus), Yosemite proper is a park and it is not needed within those boundaries.

-mox

"While Yosemite sits within a national forest (Stanislaus), "

Mike, this is not accurate.

Yosemite sits adjacent to Stanislaus N.F., but also to Toiyabe N.F. and Sierra N.F.

--B.G.--

You are correct, suh!

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/yose_guide_map.pdf

I thought Stanislaus completely surrounded Yosemite, and the others bordered Stanislaus .... thanks for correcting!

-mox

I'm bringing a snow shovel too.

As far as foods go, mostly just the usual dehydrated meals for me. No Cliff bars or the like. Kind bars, Frontier Bites, Honey Stinger waffles. I'm sleepin with a couple of things to keep them from freezing... including my camera batteries :)

Camp fire permit - You don't need one for inside the park. I should have stated that.
I posted that because it's the start of the year and you will need it for other trips.
I happened to pull mine today so it was on my mind. I guess I could of started a new thread. Sorry about any confusion!
Rick

I'm bringing my shovel, and a machete for making an igloo, hopefully Marc will have one started if not finished by the time I get there.

For lunch it will be Mountain House New Orleans Rice with shrimp and ham, this is about the only one that I'll eat, then for dinner it's Frito, hot dog, chili cheese boat's, and for breakfast just plain oat meal and some cocoa.

I'm ready, lets do this, yeah!

Edited by jumpbackjack on 01/09/2013 20:01:24 MST.

Jack, I'm interested in helping with the igloo.

I'll be arriving and camping at Wawona this evening (Thur).

Friday morning I'm not sure if I'll be skiing or just hanging out near Badger Pass but would like an idea what time to be looking for your guys.

I drive a Forrest Green Subaru Legacy.

Rick

@ Richard,

I'm shooting for an 8:00 am trail head arrival.

Here's my thinking on the igloo or snow cave.

I would like to build as many as possible, that way the people that don't have the gear to make it through the low temps can stay in an igloo were the temps should stay around 30* instead of the predicted 12* for the rest of us.

I would like to use the igloo myself, but would rather see someone else use it if they need it, this all depends on the snow condtions of course.

We'll be in a white 2005 Toyota Camry

@Richard
I think Jack will be arriving on Saturday morning, not Friday. A few of us will be leaving the Modesto area around 10:30/11:00 tomorrow.

As a general rule in Yosemite, igloos don't work unless you have the special igloo tool. It normally requires very solid snow for an igloo. If you have hard styrofoam snow, then it is possible to saw it with a snow saw, but I doubt that a machete will do much since it doesn't have teeth.



This image shows the kind of proper snow saw that we've used in California. You will notice the aggressive teeth. Cut on the pull stroke.

In Yosemite, a snow cave generally works better, especially if you have the right slope in a hillside. If the snow is too shallow, then a quinzhee works better. Just shovel the snow into one big pile, let it sinter for a while, and then dig out the center. But there you need a short-handled spoon-shaped shovel. You also need to have your rain gear on since it gets to be a very wet job.

--B.G.--