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Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Newtown on 12/22/2012 05:57:54 MST Print View

Scotland probably isn't any more violent than other places in Europe. The examples i gave were all in 'downtown' areas. The US, being a younger country, has towns built on a newer plan. They are often spread over a larger area, without the honeypot centre. Older towns in Europe tend to have a 'down town' area that has all the bars and nightclubs. Thousands of young folk gather at weekends to drink and meet the opposite sex. This is where any trouble usually happens.
Most folk living in the suburbs will never encounter any violence their whole lives.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re re re re re re re re re re on 12/22/2012 08:46:34 MST Print View

Something worries me about all these folk rushing to protect the children by guarding schools.
The Dunblane massacre in Scotland was carried out by a pillar of society. He even took teenage boys on camping trips. A sensible, middle class guy.
He was one of the few that had legal access to firearms, and was a friend of top policemen.

Ben Crocker
(alexdrewreed) - M

Locale: Kentucky
Not going to live scared on 12/22/2012 09:15:30 MST Print View

I'm not going to spend my life in fear of a gun assault. Life is too short. I'm not going to sleep with my gun in fear of an intruder. I don't think it would make me safer anyway. I think I would be more likely to kill myself or a family member than an I.truder anyway. Intruders are rare. My son sneaking in the house at 2am is much less rare.
I have had some concern that others will do something stupid with a gun that will kill a family member. For example, when my kids go to visit a friend, do they have guns in their house? Are they locked away? Parents get offended when you ask, before letting your child spend the night there, what their gun situation is.
So my biggest concern is not for an armed intruder. Its rare and I think I'm just as well off without a gun. Truth be told, I have an unlocked door pretty often. No, my concern is that a gun owner will.do something stupid with a gun. Its really not that uncommon.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Not being scared. on 12/22/2012 09:21:57 MST Print View

Sensible post Ben.

obx hiker
(obxcola) - MLife

Locale: Outer Banks of North Carolina
"Newtown" on 12/22/2012 09:42:22 MST Print View

Ipso facto

We have guns therefore we must have guns.

Can't imagine otherwise

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Something to be said... on 12/22/2012 09:44:50 MST Print View

...and this is the only thing I'll say here. But for me, it's not about our right to keep/bear arms, it's not about mental illness, and it's not about keeping ourselves safe. It's about how firearms are marketed are sold:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/develop-legislation-curtails-gun-manufacturers-advertising-campaigns/0ZYMbh87

Carry on.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Not going to live scared on 12/22/2012 11:56:53 MST Print View

Ben
If the parents have guns properly stored do you let your kids spend the night?

As a parent I'm concerned as well about many things in the situation (guns, alcohol, drugs, supervision,etc).

However just because you have a few that are not responsible doesn't mean you ban for everyone. If that's the case we should ban alcohol use in the US. Would have a far bigger impact. Oh wait we tried that too and it didn't work.

BTW I wouldn't sleep with a gun either. I personally wouldn't want to use a handgun for home safety. Shotgun works much better(don't have to be as accurate, doesn't penetrated interior walls, etc).

Many people don't want anything to do with firearms and that is perfectly fine. Nothing says they have too. However some of us want firearms and that right is protected. I don't have to explain or convince to people with opposing views. However I respect those view and look for opportunities to step toward them. Better background checks, etc

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Something to be said... on 12/22/2012 15:16:04 MST Print View

.

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/09/2013 20:31:51 MST.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 16:37:29 MST Print View

Banning alcohol didn't work. I didn't realize that you can shoot with a bottle of scotch.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 16:49:45 MST Print View

"Banning alcohol didn't work. I didn't realize that you can shoot with a bottle of scotch.

Where is the ignore this member button....

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 16:58:12 MST Print View

When we get past this American version of an age old problem, there will be no need to have conversations like this.

Anybody remember The Fugs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-cb0IIWQa4

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 17:01:11 MST Print View

.

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/09/2013 20:32:25 MST.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 17:38:10 MST Print View

Brad,

Just keeping you honest with your FBI stats and redirection from the issues at hand to cars, fighting with fists, and prohibition. Oh, and mental issues.

Please ignore me. But I won't be ignoring the above.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 18:13:46 MST Print View

Where the FBI stats wrong? I used the 5, 10 and 20 years that were available on the FBI website. You used stats from 30,40 and 50 years. Both stats are right, so what's the point? You just ignore the 5,10 and 20 year because they don't support your position.

What is the "issue at hand"? The title of the thread is "Newtown", not should we ban guns in the US. The thread has split into many things like gun control, gun rights, mental health and relationship to guns, murders in different countries, etc. So I'm just confused with the redirection comment. Are you the moderator for the thread like in a debate?

So let me redirect myself back to the issue should guns be ban in the US. Since that is your position let me ask you a question. Let's say we ban guns in the US to all citizens. This will leave us with law enforcement, military and criminals having guns. How do we get the guns away from the criminals?

BTW, I enjoy some of your comments. Makes me think and reassess my beliefs. I'm more careful with my sources and do more research. However you belittling comments (insane, idiots, you are the reason for the problem, etc) just get old after awhile.

Edited by wufpackfn on 12/22/2012 18:20:28 MST.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: Not going to live scared on 12/22/2012 18:32:05 MST Print View

"I'm not going to spend my life in fear of a gun assault. Life is too short. I'm not going to sleep with my gun in fear of an intruder. I don't think it would make me safer anyway. I think I would be more likely to kill myself or a family member than an I.truder anyway. Intruders are rare. My son sneaking in the house at 2am is much less rare. ..... No, my concern is that a gun owner will.do something stupid with a gun. Its really not that uncommon"


+1 million

A welcome blast of common sense.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 18:42:57 MST Print View

Brad, actually I was responding to M B who called me an idiot. M B had indicated fighting force with similar force so yes, I called him an idiot back.

Here: M B
(livingontheroad) - M
re on 12/21/2012 09:32:30 MST

You certainly aren't an idiot! My point with the stats is that they can be interpreted in many different ways, depending what one wants to support.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 18:57:18 MST Print View

"My point with the stats is that they can be interpreted in many different ways, depending what one wants to support."

+1. Just like you can always find a study that supports your position.

A saying we have adopted in my company is "incremental improvement is better than postponed perfection". I'm hoping for gun control we can determine an incremental improvement that will significantly improve the situation, but not go to extremes on either side. However my guess is nothing will happen because it is no longer front page news.

a b
(Ice-axe)
. on 12/22/2012 20:45:19 MST Print View

.

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/09/2013 20:34:17 MST.

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: Newtown on 12/22/2012 20:53:50 MST Print View

Guess where the National Shooting Sports Foundation is located and what they support?
Guess where the father of the president of the company which owns the Bushmaster brand lives?
Guess the town the police chief wanted to limit the use of the firing range for "sport" shooting and wanted users to register their weapons with the police, but was denied.

What a strange town. I wonder where it is.

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Re: on 12/22/2012 23:28:27 MST Print View

.

Edited by Ice-axe on 01/09/2013 20:33:06 MST.