Forum Index » Make Your Own Gear » Esbit Stove Hybrid alcohol


Display Avatars Sort By:
Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Esbit Stove Hybrid alcohol on 12/13/2012 22:02:54 MST Print View

I've been playing around with a small tin. Converted it to a esbit burner that works really nice to be able to simmer with it. Also works nice with carbon felt as an alcohol burner. Tins were obtained at my favorite ebay store.

It weighs 15 grams empty, 19 grams with felt. Made of high quality steel for longevity.

Here are a few videos made recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNfFq4JIEM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL_4UsKvq_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvkGkC2V8OM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJoHcZ8n-9M

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Esbit Stove Hybrid alcohol on 12/13/2012 23:25:33 MST Print View

In the first three video clips, the steel pan had about nine air holes in it. By the fourth video clip, the air holes were gone with no explanation.

--B.G.--

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Fresh Idea on 12/14/2012 07:36:35 MST Print View

Hi Bob, the felt thing was a new idea, reacted with joyful haste, picked up a new tin, stuffed it with felt, poured the juice to it.....pooooof!!!!! Sometimes the hurrier I go, the behinder I get.

Do you like the idea, ever use esbit?

Rex Sanders
(Rex) - M

Locale: Central California Coast
Re: Esbit Stove Hybrid alcohol on 12/14/2012 11:22:11 MST Print View

Like the idea. I've used both Esbit and alcohol stoves, tend towards Esbit because I don't like spilling alcohol. Your Hybrid reduces the spill risk, and adds the Trangia feature that you can snuff and store without wasting fuel.

Are smaller tins available that would still work? I don't need space to burn 2 Esbit tabs, maybe a tin about half as long, and half the weight?

Are the air holes needed to feed the Esbit flame? Would alcohol run out the holes as you pour it in?

Any boil tests yet with either version?

Kenneth Jacobs
(f8less) - F

Locale: Midwest
Idea on 12/14/2012 12:09:15 MST Print View

How about putting a metal divider down the middle of the tin? Seal the edges of the divider with something like JB Weld. Holes in one side for ESBIT, felt in the other side for alcohol...that is if that sliding lid will side on either side to switch between fuels.

This is a really great idea!

HTH

KJ

Edited by f8less on 12/14/2012 12:10:17 MST.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Fresh Idea on 12/14/2012 13:13:33 MST Print View

"Do you like the idea, ever use esbit?"

First of all, I use Esbit nearly all of the time on solo summer trips. I see no purpose at all for your heavy steel box. Standard Esbit burners are lighter in weight, and one of my alcohol burners is much lighter in weight. Even if I had such a steel box, I would have more air holes in it for Esbit use or else zero holes in it for alcohol use. I don't see how you can call it a hybrid for Esbit and alcohol.

Hybrid might be a good term to apply to an automobile.

--B.G.--

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
esbit alcohol stove on 12/14/2012 15:46:49 MST Print View

Just for B.G. we'll call it the esbit alcohl stove ;) things are diff in silicone valley ;)

Until such time as I find a titanium tin of the same size Bob will continue on his same routine. He must be in the fast lane and has no need for a simmering cube holder. There are many others that will like the simmer feature. Just ask Yon.

.
Rex, the holes are necessary for the cube to burn in the simmer mode. The cubes can be turned to speed up burning. Turn them lengthwise and they will burn fast. If a cube is blown out it can remain in the tin till it's needed again. the carbon felt holds 1 ounce of fuel in suspension and will not flow out the side holes. One of the videos shows the tin tilted onto it's side with the alcohol in suspension.

.
Kenneth, thanks for the idea of splitting in half. That should work well. yes, the lid can slide either way if needed.

.
Back to Bob. you see no use for this heavy tin because you are not a vissionary man like me. This heavy tin is multi-purpose. Will contain unused cubes till needed again, can simmer when needed, can use alcohol when desired, can store 2 cubes when going on an overnighter, can store used packages when returning home from an overnighter. Why store in the tin???? because esbit has an offensive odor for some folks that have keen noses. This heavy tin won't blow away when you go to put your cube down onto it or when you try to light the cube. Bob, you make great sacrifices for to attain your base weight and that works for most of those here on BPL and that's great. Autos are hybrid....run on liquid and solid fuel(batteries) my esbit burner is "hybrid" burns liquid and solid fuel ;)

.1. My testing came to a halt when I knocked over my pot of water at the beginning of test 7 I used my cell phone to get the times and may be off by45 seconds or so. I just wanted some basic timings.

Here are the results of yesterdays testing:

Esbit Testing 12/13/12

1. 1:13 to 1:21 = 8 min boil 1:24 boil stops 1:25 Fire Out = 16 min. burn time

2. 1:29 to 1:38 = 9 min. boil 1:41 boil stops…1:45 flame out = 16 min. burn time

3. 1:47 start to 1:57 = 10 min. boil 2:01 Boil stops 2:03 flame out = 16 min burn time.

4. 2:05 start to 2;17 12 min boil 2:18 boil stops 2:22 flame out = 17 min burn time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 tests with esbit on flat surface only, no support or in container.


1. 4:00 to 4:08 8 min. boil 4:10 boil stops 4:13 flame out = 13 min. burn time

2. 4:17 to 4:24 8 Min boil…4:28 boil stops 4:30 flame out = 14 min. burn time


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: one cube on flat surface burns 14 min.

Esbit needs to be carried just like alcohol. Esbit is dry and alcohol is wet. A container is needed for both. One has an odor and other not.
The esbit wrapper needs to be disposed of, the alcohol bottle is reusable. In summer HEET cost $1.00 a bottle, esbit cost 6-7 dollars for 12 cubes. esbit is not readily available. There are one piece alcohol stoves that weigh 1/2 ounce(starlyte) dump in fuel and light. Place foil on ground, place esbit on foil befor it blows away, light, place pot support over it. Pros and cons for both systems.

The esbitmizer has a user friendly simmer feature if you like to really do some trail cooking.

Edited by zelph on 12/14/2012 15:50:24 MST.

James Arzigian
(Renais) - M
Will these be sold? on 12/14/2012 16:30:31 MST Print View

Zelph,
This is a very neat way to deal with the challenges of Esbit, as well as make a spill tolerant alcohol stove. Do you intend to sell them? I didn't see any mention at the Zelph stoves site.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: esbit alcohol stove on 12/14/2012 16:39:28 MST Print View

Dan, let me ask this again to see if you will answer.

In the first three video clips, there were about nine air holes in the steel container. By the fourth clip, the air holes had gone away. If the air holes are unnecessary, then why did you show them present?

So, will there be air holes for Esbit burning, or will there be no air holes for alcohol burning? If this is either way, then it is not a hybrid for both.

--B.G.--

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Will these be sold? on 12/14/2012 17:51:28 MST Print View

Hi Jim, thank you for your interest in the design. I started a while back trying to make a burner capable of flame reduction for esbit. One thing led to another and by chance came across a batch of tins on ebay that were of the size I wanted to work with. My first tries were with stainless steel but had difficulties making the sliding lid. I have a thread over at my website that shows the development of it. Quite few have expressed interest in having these availabe at zelphs-stoveworks. I can see there is interest at whiteblaze and here also. I will make some available tomorrow. Thanks again Jim for your comment and interest.

Bob, the carbon felt can be put inside a tin that has 9 holes, 1 ounce of fuel poured into it and lit. One ounce of fuel remains suspended and won't leak out the holes. Keep the felt in the tin untill using it with esbit, then put it into your pocket, stuff sack, somewhere or leave it at home. Today I found a source locally for some small ziploc bags just the right size to store the burner in to help keep the odor at bay while in your pack. Preferably in an outside pocket. The ziploc is just the right size for the heavy tin. Adds very little weight to it. 15 grams Bob, this thing is heavy, not for the likes of you. But, you may have friends that have a need for something like this. Teach them how to make one. A small tin with nine holes punched in it. Not rocket science like what we have in Silcone
Valley. This is user friendlyville. Plop fuel in, light, slide lid to control heat. Is it heavy, yes, by all means, you made that crystal clear;)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Will these be sold? on 12/14/2012 18:06:32 MST Print View

"Not rocket science like what we have in Silcone Valley." (sic)

That speaks volumes.

--B.G.--

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Will these be sold? on 12/14/2012 19:09:53 MST Print View

Yes, Bob.....they are easy to make.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Interesting feedback on 12/29/2012 20:58:32 MST Print View

I got some interesting feedback on the ability to simmer with the Esbitmizer:

>"Spork"

I’ve been playing with my Esbitmizer under a canteen cup stand. First up is Onion soup with Lentils and Ham.

Loaded up with 2 Coghlan’s tabs placed on edge. I do this because they produce an ash which interferes with complete combustion of the tablet. Positioning them on edge lets them burn more completely. They were enough to almost bring 2.5 cups of water and a half cup of lentils to a boil in the small Mors pot. I added tabs 3 and 4 in succession to cook the lentils until they were tender.

The 5th tab was partially covered with the sliding lid for a simmer flame. Half a package of Lipton Onion Soup and some diced ham was added to the pot. I did start a 6th tab, but it was only partially burned when I decided the soup was ready.

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/attach...7&d=1356563294

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/attach...8&d=1356563295

It seems like six tablets might be a lot, but I figure 2 Coghlan’s tabs are the equivalent of one Esbit. Also when I cleared the ash out of the tin, I found about one tablet’s worth of unburned fuel. That’s a shortcoming of the Coghlan’s tabs…Esbits usually burn much more completely.

2.5 cups of water (by the soup instructions it should be 2 cups, but the additional water makes up for the additional saltyness from the meat. Adjust to suit)
0.5 cup of lentils
Half a package of Lipton onion soup mix
Diced Ham or Kielbasa

Fresh ground black pepper on top before eating.
12-26-2012, 07:16 PMSpork
Next test was the alcohol function. The canteen cup stand again with a Moka pot…about 5 ounces of water. I lit it up with the lid open about the width of an Esbit tablet. The coffee was done brewing in about 5 minutes (which is normal on a stove). I had filled the Esbitmizer with an ounce of fuel and it was still burning…so I swapped the Moka pot with a canteen cup and 8 oz of water. It was only enough to get the water lukewarm.

I was hoping to get the coffee brewed and enough hot water for instant oatmeal. Next time the strategy will be to put out the Esbitmizer once the coffee has brewed; add another ½ ounce of alcohol (after letting it cool a bit) and relight for the water.

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/attach...9&d=1356563295

Note: clean the tablet residue out of the tin before using the carbon felt pads. The bottom pad got crudded up a bit because I didn’t do that after making the soup. It did clean off, but it was a nuisance.
12-26-2012, 07:21 PMSpork
Last test…real rice in a canteen cup using Esbit.

I loaded up the tin with both tabs, placing the second tab back as far as it would go, leaving the forward tab exposed.

1/2 cup of long grain rice, washed
3/4 cup of water

One tab was enough to get to a boil (partially covered) and for the water to start reducing until the rice was starting to crater (uncovered otherwise you’ll get boil-over). The second tab was pushed forward and ignited by what remained by the first. The Esbitmizer was opened just enough to maintain a simmer flame and the canteen cup covered for 15 minutes. I moved the lid back twice in small increments to maintain the flame.

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/attach...0&d=1356563848

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/attach...1&d=1356563849

It took only about one and a half tablets to make a serving of rice...enough for a base under stew or a curry.
12-27-2012, 12:06 AMzelph
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Spork
I was thinking about having it extend out of the feed port of the stand loaded with 2 tablets in simmer mode. Might have to remove the lid to bring the second tab into play. If I can bring 1.5 cups to a boil and sustain a simmer for 15 minutes, I'd be able to cook a cup of rice on maybe three tablets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above are your projected thoughts of what it might take to cook up some rice.

Below are the actual amount of fuel used:


Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last test…real rice in a canteen cup using Esbit.

I loaded up the tin with both tabs, placing the second tab back as far as it would go, leaving the forward tab exposed.

1/2 cup of long grain rice, washed
3/4 cup of water

One tab was enough to get to a boil (partially covered) and for the water to start reducing until the rice was starting to crater (uncovered otherwise you’ll get boil-over). The second tab was pushed forward and ignited by what remained by the first. The Esbitmizer was opened just enough to maintain a simmer flame and the canteen cup covered for 15 minutes. I moved the lid back twice in small increments to maintain the flame.

It took only about one and a half tablets to make a serving of rice...enough for a base under stew or a curry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems as if the Esbitmizer worked well for you in both soup and rice applications.

Was there a large amount of air being drafted over the Esbitmizer while setting in the entrance under the pot support?

Are you able to slide the Esbitmizer under the pot support with fuel tabs standing on edge?

Were you able to see the flames well through the holes in order to know when to adjust the simmer lid?

Your photos are excellent and the test data is precise and clear. Thank you very much for your time and effort.
12-27-2012, 12:54 AMSpork
My original estimate about cooking rice was based on 1 cup of raw rice and 1.5 cups of water. I halved that because I thought the canteen cup was too small to handle the full amount. Yes, I was actually very surprised at how much fuel was left...it was actually miserly.

Was there a large amount of air being drafted over the Esbitmizer while setting in the entrance under the pot support?

-Not any more than normal (putting a tablet on the ground), I could see the flames leaning towards the vents at times though. There was some flame out of the vent holes, but using a fan grill to raise the cup creates a gap so the draw is more vertical. If the canteen cup is inserted in the stand (as normal) the draft is normally greater like a hobo stove and more flame and heat escape through the vent holes.

Are you able to slide the Esbitmizer under the pot support with fuel tabs standing on edge?

-Yes, the feed port is high enough to do that. In fact when feeding additional Coglan's tablets, I just placed them flat on the lid and pushed them inside with a knife blade and they would tip into the burn chamber.

Were you able to see the flames well through the holes in order to know when to adjust the simmer lid?

-Yes, because the cup was raised with the computer fan grill there is enough gap to look inside.

The ability to moderate the burn rate really adds a new dimension to using solid fuel tablets, I really like this setup. Good Job Zelph :dblthumb:


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read more here: http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/81183-Esbit-Esbitmizer-solid-fuel-and-alcohol-burner

Rex Sanders
(Rex) - M

Locale: Central California Coast
Smaller tin for Esbitimizer? on 01/05/2013 15:26:37 MST Print View

Zelph,

Stumbled across this smaller steel tin with sliding lid, while looking for something else:

County Comm Industrial Strength Mini Survival Food Grade Tin

Might be worth checking out.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Smaller Tin on 01/05/2013 17:45:43 MST Print View

Hi Rex, thanks for the interest in the smaller tins. I went to their site and wanted to order 2 but at checkout they wanted $9.95 for shipping. Wow, that turned me off in short order.

The dimension they give for the depth of the tin told me an esbit tab would not let the top slide over it, bummer!!!

Thanks again for the help.