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Cary Dwiggins
(Cary75)

Locale: NW
Question about fuel for my simmer stove on 12/12/2012 10:49:22 MST Print View

I made a simmer stove from a candle tin with lid. I just cut a 1 inch hole and put a few small nail holes around the circle on the lid. It is probably taller than ideal, but it will simmer an ounce of denatured alcohol for 64 minutes outside @ 43 degrees. I had read that heet is the best fuel for cold weather so I bought some and was shocked at how much more quickly it burned up: it only lasted 43 minutes. Is this particular to my stove, or is HEET just not as compatible with simmering?

Also, I was experimenting with taking the lid off the tin for a quicker boil and it almost boiled (204 degrees) In 14 minutes. I used 58 degree water outside at 43 degrees. Is this reasonable for the weather, or can I do something to get a quicker boil?

Thanks for any help,
Cary

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Question about fuel for my simmer stove on 12/12/2012 13:34:02 MST Print View

Links, we got links!

http://zenstoves.net/TeaLight.htm

http://www.backpackingchef.com/backpacking-stoves.html

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1850

Questions:

How far above your tealight stove is your cookpot? You didn't mention a windscreen. Do you have one and is it vented at the bottom to allow for a draft while controlling the wind? Is your stove an open cup or does it have a "media" (carbon felt, fiberglass, etc) in it to help control spills and vaporization?

I promised my wife I wouldn't build any more stoves! ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Jon Fong
(jonfong57)

Locale: www.flatcatgear.com
Re: Question about fuel for my simmer stove on 12/12/2012 13:54:20 MST Print View

To test different stove ideas (or fuel) and to make design decisions, you need to have control of all of the variables. Here is a simple test: repeat the test, say six times with all the factors the same (water temp, air temp, amount of fuel and zero wind conditions) and compare the results. If the time to boil has a lot of range, then you do not have all of your variables under control. I would imagine that the total range would be well within 20% so a 60 minute burn would be +/- 6 minutes. The biggest variable that I have found is wind. Wind will increase your burn rate and reduce your coupling efficiency between the stove and the pot.

Once you have control of your variables and are getting consistent results, you can compare two design ideas. An ideal way would be to perform a T-test for significance. Best regards - Jon

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Question about fuel for my simmer stove on 12/12/2012 18:32:39 MST Print View

Always use a windscreen that completely encircles your pot Have a 3/4" space between pot and winscreen. Keep the lid on the burner to slow down the burn rate. What was your fuel befor the HEET

Cary Dwiggins
(Cary75)

Locale: NW
More info on 12/12/2012 22:42:47 MST Print View

I have a caldera cone that I use. I have taken the temperature of my water and controlled all of the factors between my tests. The difference has not been btw denatured and denatured or heet vs heet. The only big difference has been btw heet and denatured. BTW, I tested 3/4 an ounce of denatured vs heet in the lidless stove and I got 2 minutes quicker full rolling boil with the denatured. So, I am getting a quicker boil and 20 minute longer simmer with denatured alcohol vs Heet. Nobody else seems to get this difference.

Cary

Jon Fong
(jonfong57)

Locale: www.flatcatgear.com
Re: More info on 12/13/2012 10:01:21 MST Print View

What size mug/pot are you using? There is a possibility that the stove dia / pot dia could be swinging your results. Best regards - Jon

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: More info on 12/13/2012 10:43:23 MST Print View

I've always used denatured for stove testing. Always get better results with it. It has more btu's than heet so why not better results. Stick with denatured. Be carefull on where you get your info off the web. www.bplite.com is a good source for tried and true bench testing of alcohol stoves. Jon will agree with that;)

J Mole
(MoleJ) - F

Locale: UK
energy on 12/13/2012 10:47:53 MST Print View

Heet (100% methanol) has a lower energy density than denatured alcohol (84- 95% ethanol here in Europe) so surely there should be an difference?

adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/08/alcohol-as-stove-fuel.html?m=1

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: energy on 12/13/2012 11:09:05 MST Print View

Thank you Mole for the confirmation.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Question about fuel for my simmer stove on 12/13/2012 13:23:16 MST Print View

" denatured" is just a generic description that tells you you have something corrupted by something else...
In Australia we get 95% Ethanol, the rest is water and whatever poison they put in so that you don't drink it.
(call methylated alcohol here or 'metho" by the user)
In the US the "denatured type can be any mix, from 10 up to 50% of Methanol , the rest being Ethanol some water and the usual added poisons.
You can also get up to 90% Ethanol sold as alcohol for Marine stoves and something similar from paint supply places.
Basically you just need to read the label...
denatured alcohol
For example the MSDS of SLX tells me that it has 40 to 50% Ethanol and 50-55% Methanol, the one from Sunnyside lists 43% Ethanol and 52% methanol but the info should be on the can too.
(Sunnyside also has a type called 934 that is 95% Ethanol)
My frien Google told me the above.

Cary Dwiggins
(Cary75)

Locale: NW
Thanks for the input everyone... on 12/13/2012 16:34:19 MST Print View

I am using Klean strip 'green' alcohol. Maybe it is just better stuff than Heet. I saw a test comparing the two fuels done by Jason Klass and Hiram, so I didn't think my results would be so opposite. My pot is the evernew 1.3L and I have been raising the pot a little with two tent stakes, since my stove is taller than the trail designs one. BTW Jon, how tall is your simmer stove?

Thanks,
Cary

Jon Fong
(jonfong57)

Locale: www.flatcatgear.com
Re: Thanks for the input everyone... on 12/14/2012 08:50:19 MST Print View

Cary, I think that the real question is what is my ground to pot heights. In the Bobcat and Snow Leopardd systems, my ground to pot height is 1.8". I hope that answers your question, if not, send me a PM. Best regards - Jon