FF website came out of the 90's
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Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
FF website came out of the 90's on 12/04/2012 00:32:10 MST Print View

I initially thought it was browser hijacking, URL cloaking or something....but NO! it seems the website is updated

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
FF website came out of the 90's on 12/04/2012 06:32:41 MST Print View

Wow. Huge improvement. About time. This should help business.

Soul patch
(mtblack) - F
Re: FF website came out of the 90's on 12/04/2012 09:33:02 MST Print View

Awwww. I liked the old site. It barely changed from when I bought my Wren in 2000.

It is much easier to find info and is much more attractive than the old site although I am disconcerted to find many garments imported. I wonder when this started?

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
imported goods on 12/04/2012 11:14:42 MST Print View

indeed interesting... I wonder what that means - are the shells imported and down filled in USA from european/hi quality down OR are they actually filled and finished in china

anyone?

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: imported goods on 12/04/2012 11:31:47 MST Print View

I am sure the shell material and down are imported as all of the major players in ultra light down proof fabrics I am aware of are overseas and high quality down seems to be european. Being imported may not mean from China however as recently WM has moved their down jacket production to Canada.

Edited by Mocs123 on 12/04/2012 11:32:37 MST.

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
Imported on 12/04/2012 11:57:54 MST Print View

I pinged them on their FB page...

personally when i see "imported" i think china

If i 'imported" from Canada i would write "handmade in canada"
if i imported 10d fabric from Japan i would write "We source this super duper high tech special one of a kind 10d fabric from Mitsui mills in Osaka"

you get the picture

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: Imported on 12/04/2012 12:42:30 MST Print View

I don't disagree, but I don't think FF is known for their marketing savy, so they may not have done the best wordsmithing.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
FF website came out of the 90's on 12/04/2012 14:17:39 MST Print View

Thanks.
I had a look only a couple of days ago for the first time in months, it was still the old one.
I see they have a new Daybreak vest now, nice...
http://featheredfriends.com/index.php/

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
FF reply on 12/04/2012 15:24:29 MST Print View

here is what they said when i asked on their FB

"All of our sleeping bags, expedition parkas, and comforters are made here in Seattle. However, our Daybreaks, Hyperions, Helios jackets, and vests are imported. Same quality and guarantee you can expect from our factory."

I pushed them further.. lets see. Indeed not a happy turn of events (unless as some said its made in canada or germany or even like valandre - by a wholly owned small factory in Morroco where the floor manager is the CEOs sister in law

this is top $$ stuff and I for one would like to see it MADE in the locally (or price dropped

NW Hiker
(king2005ify) - M
imported on 12/04/2012 18:56:45 MST Print View

I am in the store all the time, anything not made there (jackets, booties, etc.) is made in Canada from what I have seen, just like Westcomb's down products and Western Mountaineering's down garments...in fact they all use the same factory in Canada I am told!

"Imported" - FF means Canada :)

Cheers

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: FF reply on 12/04/2012 20:44:57 MST Print View

"this is top $$ stuff and I for one would like to see it MADE in the locally (or price dropped"

Did you ask Arcteryx if they would do the same?

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
Imported on 12/04/2012 23:29:02 MST Print View

@NW - if that is indeed the case then I would (if I were FF) advertise as such.

@David - I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. Putting politics aside (that was not my intention) MADE in the USA stands for something. Not just supporting our(may I say our even though im an expat?) economy but means more control etc. Especially with small businesses as FF/WM are/used to be (as opposed to say Apple Inc which you can be sure asserts itself with is suppliers).
I could be speaking only for myself but part of the appeal with such companies apart from great product and such (cause others have that as well) is that the people who spec it, the people who build it and the people who sell it look each other in the whites of the eyes etc. It also allowed for small customization etc

On a whole different level - and having years of experience with manufacturing of consumer electronics in Taiwan, China and Japan (working with large brands like Sony/Nikon/Canon/HP/Kodak and large MFG like Foxconn/Gemtek etc- I can say with some confidence that although many of the hi end items we buy these days are made in china/vietnam/philipines/taiwan etc - with large mass market factories there still is a difference between made in china vs made in japan/usa/germany/UK
So when I compare Brooks range to WM or Arcteryx to Gregory there IS a difference

YMMV etc
Mike

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Imported on 12/05/2012 08:04:50 MST Print View

My point is that if one cannot tell the difference as to where the item is made, meaning it reeks of outstanding quality, then where it is made is quite irrelevant. I haven't seen a drop in quality of any Arcteryx garments I have looked at recently despite not being made in Canada any longer. I can show you items that are made in either the US or Canada that are complete garbage and yet are marketed as made locally.

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: Re: Imported on 12/05/2012 08:28:52 MST Print View

I agree that the chineese can make high quality products equel to what we can make in the US or Canada, but if a company selling products at premium prices, such as Arcterx moves production off shore for a significant labor cost savings, you would hope that at least some of that would be passed on to the consumer.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Imported on 12/05/2012 09:27:34 MST Print View

Brad,

the goal of any business is to maximize the wealth of shareholders. If the model to produce in Canada was infringing on margins thus the decision to produce elsewhere, why would Arcteryx pass any profits to you? It has increased production twofold since 2005 and is now producing some clothing in Vietnam, China, and New Zealand. The cost of manufacture in Canada has gone up and would undoubtly mean a Theta AR costing $800 if the product was still made here. Would you pay that?

Don't forget that the company does employ Canadians and Americans as well. It pays taxes in both countries into social systems that benefit everyone.

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
almost on 12/05/2012 15:36:02 MST Print View

@Dave

I agree in principle that these companies are for profit etc and that we would be hard pressed to buy an 800USD JKT

having said that - "maximize shareholder value" is a bit 80's :) its classical economic theory that we know today describes what really goes on only partially (think Cahanman and Tverskey etc)
In a similar manner these days it is recognized more and more that there are more stakeholders in a business than just the classical ones - and I would argue that businesses today are concerned more and more about stuff like sustainability, carbon footprint, local sourcing and so on....

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: almost on 12/05/2012 16:08:46 MST Print View

I hope that you are right Michael.

I remember some years ago while working for a large integrated oil company as a commodity trader (don't hate me), we had an open forum with the executive branch of the organization including the CEO. When asked why 'we' had divested completely all wind farms, the stout answer was: Because we weren't making enough money.

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
Fourth sector on 12/05/2012 16:30:01 MST Print View

@dave... we wont hate you..heck..I worked in online gaming :)

Im basically talking re "fourth sector" and hybrid organizations ....

But lets just hope FF continues to make awesome gear and give attention to customers etc.
Would be sorry to see another good old brand go the Northface route

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
@David Ure - apropo on 12/06/2012 07:06:12 MST Print View

here you go...i swear i didnt plan this

http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/06/apple-to-spend-over-100m-to-bring-some-u-s-mac-production-back-in-2013/

Robert H
(roberth)
Made in China on 12/06/2012 14:33:48 MST Print View

'The lightweight garments are manufactured in China... We are still working the tweaks, info, and pics on the website, so further information and clarification will be forthcoming. Thank you for your patience.'

Quite a shame in my opinion. Western Mountaineering still make their in Canada right?