I don't think it's necesarily important to get EN rated bag

For example, if you're comfortable down to 45 F in a 2.5 oz Apex bag, and you want a 30 F bag, you can just get 5 oz.

EN rating allows you to compare two bags "apples to apples" but it doesn't take into account your sensitivity.

EN rating is expensive for small manufacturer and maybe you don't want to exclude a small manufacturer

I don't think EN rating applies to quilts does it?

Jerry,
I agree that EN ratings don't take into account your individual sensitivity, but it does give a generally acceptable starting point when looking at a sleep system. It at least has some merit, whereas we all know some gear has totally B.S. specs and ratings.

Yes, EN ratings are expensive for cottage manufactures, but I trust the word of the VAST majority of cottage guys that post here. If they say a bag will be good to 20*F, I know it should be darn close. Why? Because they know if they fudge their claims, they lose all credibility here.

Edited by T.L. on 12/04/2012 14:21:25 MST.

i find it most interesting that most cottage manuf dont give a "womens" rating for their quilts or bags ...

all en-rated manuf are required to give the female "comfort" level .. which is often 10F off from the mens "comfort"

as we know that no amount of BPL positive thinking will change the physiology of the average woman ... either the quilts are 10F underrated or so ... or the women buying quilts havent tested them to their limits ... or they are hard(wo)men ;)

Eric,
My wife and I have the exact same Enlightened Equipment quilt, rated to 20*F, with overfill. We've yet to test out the lower limits of the quilt, but we'll see if my wife finds the rating accurate.

We slept out two nights in them last weekend, but the weather warmed up. Lows were only about 30. Today it was nearly 60*F--in Wisconsin--in December.

Not all women are cold sleepers. Not all men are warm sleepers. For those of us who are cold sleepers, the "comfort" level will be about 9*F higher, as mentioned.

I looked up (on a UK website) the EN13537 ratings on my Western Mountaineering Ultralite, advertised as a 20*F sleeping bag. I don't know why WM doesn't have these on their website, since they do sell their bags in Europe. "Lower limit" (men/warm sleepers) was about 16*F; "comfort" (women/cold sleepers) was about 25*F. Interestingly, for me the "comfort" level is where I have to start adding extra warm clothing; the "lower limit" is where I start getting cold even with all my warm clothing on.

At least those who say the WM ratings are very conservative are correct!

Re liners: I tried a Cocoon brand silk liner some years back. I repeatedly woke up so entangled in it up in it that it took me several minutes to get out of the sleeping bag. After a few nights of that nonsense, I ditched the liner. As far as I could tell, the liner added no appreciable warmth. I use my base layer and a fleece hat to sleep in,and those stay relatively clean. The base layer and hat also keep me warm (under my hiking clothes) on cold mornings and evenings, so they have more uses than the @#$!%^&! liner!

Edited by hikinggranny on 12/04/2012 21:27:35 MST.

I have personally found that with my bag (Marmot Pinnacle)the liner which is Sea to Summit's alleged 25 degree liner, I was much warmer than with the bag itself.

Since I don't "feel" in Fahrenheit or Celsius I can only say that I was much warmer and cozier while a light dusting of snow was going on outside my tent's wall.

With my quilt, I found the liner to be much less effective so I don't bother with it.

I almost always sleep with merino long sleeve and full length leggings along with some synthetic fleece socks.

Now what I did a few times this summer was to use a homemade fleece bag with the liner and it was fine for a "chilly" night. Really light but puffier than my other setups.


Bob