Hi,

I have noticed a few of you use the GG Torso Pad as part of your sleep system. My question is, do you put anything under your legs? I like the idea (i.e. weight) but can't imagine sleeping on it where my torso would be an inch or so higher than my legs. Sounds uncomfortable, but I suspect that I have missed something....thoughts?

David,

I've used the torso pad quite a few times and I put my pack and any extra clothes or "soft" items under my legs. As the manual that comes with the pad says: use Tylenol PM for a good nights rest! The pad has adequate insulation and certainly helps keep the weight down but, in my opinion, it is not comfortable. Having said that, it is workable and it makes a nice structure for my ultralight pack as well.

I bring a Gossamer Gear ThinLight 1/8" full-length sleeping pad (2.5 oz), but I'm also sleeping on a quilt so I need a bit more ground insulation. (I use my pack as a pillow.) The GG NightLight Torso pad compresses most of its thickness at the pressure points, so you don't really sleep any higher. I don't find the GG torso quite long enough for me; I sleep happier with a BMW TorsoLite.

Edited by Otter on 03/29/2007 13:41:23 MDT.

Thanks guys.

Yes, I would like the BMW Torsolite, but none in stock(!).

Anyone want to sell?

I've read the threads regarding the problems fitting the GG Nightlight in the ULA Conduit's pad sleeve. I've used a Thermarest Z-Lite 3/4 length experienced the same fit issues. Since it doesn't fit in the sleeve I just place the pad against the pack's backpanel, outside of the sleeve. It seems to work just fine and the pad stays put. Has anyone tried this with the Nighlight pad and had good results?

>Has anyone tried this with the Nighlight pad and had good results?


I can't answer your question exactly, but I tried a similar arrangement in my Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus. It worked but the loose pad sleeve felt a bit odd on my back, and then I decided to bring the BMW TorsoLite instead of the GG NightLight torso pad. I stuck a Gossamer Gear SitLight sit pad (1.5 oz) in the pad sleeve and it worked great. (The SitLight is the size of one of the three panels in a NightLight torso pad. It's made of Evazote, not the blue foam used in the NightLight.) The single thickness of pad kept the pack closer to my back, while still providing sufficient stiffness that I could carry a 24-pound load in the otherwise frameless pack without the stays. The dimples helped a bit with back ventilation, it worked well as a sit pad of course, and I used it for knee padding while sleeping.

Aside: a nice feature of the GG ThinLight sleeping pad is that things don't slip around on it much. My torso and knee pads remain in place all night, and the ThinLight stays in place on a tent floor and on a GG Polycryo ground sheet.

Edited by Otter on 03/29/2007 14:20:35 MDT.

Douglas,

The Conduit is different from the Mariposa packs in that the pad sleeve is inside of the packbag, against the backpanel. I'd like to find a solution to this problem as the pack feels even more comfortable when using a foam pad instead of the self-inflating pad as a virtual frame. Its comfortable with the self-inflater by itself but you know us gear guys, always tweaking. I guess the only thing for it is to order a GG torso pad and see for myself. Its a few inches shorter than the Z Lite used for the same task so I'm worried it might shift around inside the pack.

Actually, I am getting some further questions answered, at least to some degree. I have a ULA Relay on order, so the reasoning around my initial question was really two-fold. Whether the pad will fit well in the pad sleeve of a Relay (which is the same as the Conduit) and how one incorporates it into their sleep system....

If the pad sleeve on the Relay is the same dimensions as the Conduit's sleeve, I can tell you that folding foam pads will not fit well. I haven't tried the GG Nighlight but the Z Lite is such a tight fit that it would be impractical to use the sleeve. I've read of others making modifications but I lack the sewing savvy to do this. Some have modified the GG pad by separating the pad along scored divisions, trimming each section, and reattching them. That sounds like a hassle and prone to eventual failure, so I'm looking at ways to work around the sleeve.

The Z Lite seems to ride fine in a loaded pack without utilizing the sleeve to hold it in place but I'd rather use the GG torso pad as its over 7 ounces lighter. The question is, will the pad move around inside the pack as the folded dimensions of the GG pad are smaller than those of the Z Lite, particularly the vertical length which would be 18" versus 20". I'm wondering if the 2" shorter height would allow the pad to creep upwards, a condition the pad sleeve is designed to eliminate.

Can anyone answer if the "pad creep" referenced by Brian at ULA primarliy occurs when using more pliable self inflating pads as backpanels? The Conduit is my first frameless pack so my experience is limited.

I use a nightlite, that has been cut into 4 sections then reattached to sections of nylon ribbon with contact adhesive. It works pretty well and makes for a pretty good virtual frame.

This summer I want to see If I can come up with a cheap and easy way of thermomolding the foam into the four sections. Hopefully increasing the durability.

--Edit played around with a cheap way of thermomolding the foam, I was able to change some of the imperfections from cutting the foam but was not able to make large changes. About 90% of the way through however I tore the nightlight and had to shorten the pad. While I still feel that cutting the nightlight is workable, I am not sure it is worth the effort and might just change to a prolite. I will see how the frame compairs.

Edited by JasonS on 04/16/2007 09:22:37 MDT.

Douglas,

How do you carry the
Gossamer Gear ThinLight 1/8" full-length sleeping pad?

Rolled and outside pack

or inside as additional frame

You think the torso + thinlight would work ok with a Zpacks Z1

>How do you carry the Gossamer Gear ThinLight 1/8" full-length sleeping pad?


I roll it up and lay it, U-shaped, in the bottom of my Mariposa Plus pack. It holds the bottom fabric out, then my stuffed quilt fits inside the U. That make a nice base for efficiently filling the rest of the pack.


>You think the torso + thinlight would work ok with a Zpacks Z1


I think so. The torso (I'm assuming you mean the GG NightLight torso pad, not the BMW Torsolite which stores in a stuff sack) is 10" x 18" x 2.5" when folded and makes a sturdy packframe when you stuff the rest of your gear against it (since the Z1 doesn't have a pad sleeve). It will also keep hard gear from poking you in the back, and keep your gear from getting wet if you soak through the back of the pack. It certainly fits inside the Z1, which is 12.5" x 30" x 5.5". (The Z1 looks like a really nice pack! I need to reduce my three-season gear volume first, though.)

A rolled 1/8" regular-size ThinLight is a cylinder 20" long by 3.5" in diameter. (PJ, that is diameter not radius ;) You can bend it in half to make a 9" x 6" x 4" object that you can place into the bottom of your pack. (It should just fit in the bottom of a Z1.) Alternatively, you could bend it in a U-shape and place it inverted in the pack to give the pack a good shape and to hold the NightLight torso in place while you fill the pack. Finally, you could unroll it around the inside of the pack and fill inside it, but the pad is likely to lose a battle with a tent pole or other pointy object eventually. The ThinLight 1/8" pad isn't fragile, though; mine shows no sign of wear after about 30 nights, including inside a hammock where it was subjected to severe stretching (conditions that tore a sunshade to shreds).

Edited by Otter on 03/29/2007 22:09:06 MDT.

I fold my 1/8 thinlight in half width-wise, then roll it up length wise and secure it with a couple rubber bands. Of course it is about the same volume (144 in3) no matter how you roll it, but this half-width configuration is easier to pack inside the backpack for me.

About the currently unavaliable Torsolite.. the Montbell ul pad 90cm is wider, longer, lighter, cheaper, and because it is solid foam, probably warmer.
I have the 120cm; it connects with toggles to the inflatable pillow and the sit pad to make the lightest 180cm inflatable combo.
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_shosai.asp?cat=1106&hinban=1124275

Edited by Brett1234 on 03/30/2007 00:59:59 MDT.

I wrap my thinlight around the hardest and or heaviest items in my pack, usualy my food.
That way with the extra cushion, I can put those items at the bottom inside of the pack for a better balanced pack.

Russell,
As you know, I carry a Conduit and I cut the largest of the three sections off because I am a side sleeper and only use it for hip cushioning. I use the thinlight 1/8" for insulation in the summer months. The nightlight torso actually was uncomfortable because it dug into my ribs or armpits while on my side, hence the reason for cutting off one section. Only having two sections it fits perfect into the Conduit sleeve. I am thinking about cutting off another section because I think I only need one for my hip bones but will do that after the next trip.
I used the prolite 3 Short before I moved to this system and it works perfect, which is what I think Brian had in mind when he made the sleeve.
Not sure if this helps.
JT

JT,

I did get your PM, thanks. YEah I'm going to give the GG pad a shot. Brian lists the Prolite as the pad the sleeve was designed for and from my experience foam pads don't fit in the sleeve well but I've been using the Thermarest Z Lite 3/4 outside of the sleeve and I can't tell its not being held in place. We'll see how the GG Torso pad does without the sleeve holding it in place. If it works well for me, maybe I'll soon be losing an ounce or two of pad sleeve out of my Conduit : )

I don't use it all the time, esp. just by itself. The Z-rest 8 section is my mainstay, with a G5 pack.

I find I can get enough gear under my legs to be fine, and have never been bothered by torso height.

Since I'm a sometimes stomach sleeper, I find I require padding for my knees, and so I carry 1 Z-rest section when using the GG Torso.