Did anyone ever hear a review of the packs ULA made for the Arctic 1000 team? I am curious about that pack design--it seems quite flexible for both short and long hikes. Plus, no pack cover/liner required.

Brian of ULA Designs did take people's email addresses for possible contact if he ever finished making a public version of the packs, but so far no contact. Don't know if it will ever get off the ground. I'm currently making one of my own right now.

Aren't those beautiful packs? I would love to have one. I mentioned it a while back in a post but Brian said they were on the back burner. I wonder if he would take a bribe?

By June. I promise...unless Miguel beats me to it.

Brian

After I read up on the trip I wanted one of those packs. I wish they would make some for the public.

P.S. Put me on any list if one is created!

Edited by DrGonzo on 03/29/2007 10:08:16 MDT.

This is timely! Yes, we're going to move forward and make a batch for those that want them. They will be available here at BPL, as Brian said, "by June!" - Ryan

Count me in for one of those. Would you happen to have any specs on them?

I just ordered a ULA Relay and was going to also order one of the larger packs but hesitated.....

If brian wants a deposit now for June / July delivery on one of the Arctic 1000 packs my checkbook is ready.....!

Ryan:

Can you tell us more? Specs? Pics? Or will it be substantially the same as the pack described in your Arctic 1000 website (http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/2006/05/backpacks_for_a.html)? Thanks in advance.

Edited by ben2world on 03/28/2007 17:49:41 MDT.

I was on the original list that Brian compiled. I'm still interested----if a few only are being made, how will people be prioritized----or will there be an announcement followd by an immense free-for-all scramble ( like the action at an Indian airline ticket counter) ?

Curious minds need to know.

Interested as well.

I still saved have my email saved where I requested to be on the list too :)

Please include me on the list for pre-orders.

Do you guys ever get together for group buys?

.... for a 23" torso, please.

Folks-

I'll let Ryan chime in if he wants to address the details/specifics of the pack, but I will say that this will be a BPL specific model. ULA will not likely offer this pack as a standard in my line-up. As such, please direct comments and questions to the good Dr. :)

Ryan and I have discussed the pack a bit since the Arctic 1000 and have addressed concerns that came up with the original during the hike. Obviously after being on the back's of the likes of Roman, Jason, and Ryan there has been great feedback!

The real biggie for me and my satistfaction with the pack is simply that I've had more than a few weeks (like the original) to brainstorm, design, and sew the version that will be available...not being pressed with an actual timeline has naturally resulted in a much better end result.

Anyway, I still have the list of names, etc from last year. I'll likely forward that to Ryan at some point or send a mass e-mail as to the availability, etc.

In regard to order priority, etc I am hopeful that the initial run of packs will take care of everyone that has been so patient and had an interest in the design. Obviously that is BPL's call on how to handle that.

To be frank I am not really sure when the stars will re-align for ULA to have the time to do this again, so if interested, I'd encourage you to make yourself known.

Brian

thanks Brian.

My name is on the email list with Brian, but just to make sure, I'd like to be on the list with Ryan. Definitely a pack I want. I've been sketching designs for a harness pack for about three years now and I must say it's very hard to come up with anything much better than what I've already seen with Ryan's Arctic 1000 photos. I'm really curious as to what the problems were that Ryan, Roman, and Jason found during their walk and Brian had to work out during his rethinking of the design. Was it problems with the stability of the harness when the drysack was underfilled? Problems with accessing water bottles located in the rear pockets? Or problems with the "roundness" of the drysack when inflated? Or anything to do with the "stickiness" of the interior of the drysacks, making them hard to get gear into or out of (very hard to get a CC ground pad in there!)? These are all things I've been wrestling with, so I'm curious to hear opinions from actual use out in the field.

Edited by butuki on 03/28/2007 21:47:20 MDT.

I am extremelly interested in one of these. Might even want two!

I'm on the original list too, and I'm still interested.
Paul

I'm not on the original list but I'm very interested. I hope BPL orders enough. If there's a list, add my name.

I too am interested in one of these packs. Please add my name to the list as well, if there is one. Thanks

It seems like a lot of people are intersted. Is there a way we can get this worked out, or are they going to be first come first serve on the website? If there is a list, I'm interested too.

Well we can switch off. I want it on Fridays, you can get it on Saturdays, Bill on Sundays....seriously I agree. Ryan, any plans to set up a formal pre-ordering list with deposit?

I am really interested too ... I even already have the dry sack ready to go!

I'm on the original list as well, but have since let my BPL membership lapse. I hope that won't preclude me from buying?

The main problems with the prototype design we took to the Arctic that will be fixed in the version we'll ship this spring were:

1. Harness (shoulder/hip) strap angles are being adjusted to better distribute load at stress points.

2. The materials are being changed to be less abrasive on the body. The old packs used a very abrasive and heavy mesh that absorbed little water, but was pretty uncomfortable and abusive to clothing over the long haul. The new pack will will not change overall weight much, but undergo some materials changes to make it more comfortable while retaining excellent resistance to water absorbency.

3. The back pocket design is completely revamped. The old pocket snagged on brush, it was baggy. Water bottles, in spite of best intentions otherwise, couldn't be accessed. Because this is at heart, a "water" pack, the need for it to carry a lot of water and have that water accessible is limited. The idea is to have a place to carry your water bottle (empty) outside the pack so it remains accessible. On the Arctic trek, we just looped our Nalgene Cantene bottle caps around a strap. The new pack has a flat, zippered back pocket that's big enough for stuffing storm clothes (specifically, wind shirt, rain jacket, wind pants, hat/gloves), a thin water bladder (like a platy), and extra food. The bulk of your food will go in the huge hip belt pockets :), which are fine as well for camera, etc. Anyway, the new backpanel distributes the load so much better than the old one, and does so with one less compression strap (the new pack has 2, the old had 3 sets).

So...

I'm really excited about the new design. I love this pack, and have been using it on "regular" trips since the Arctic trek, just because the dry bag concept makes life soooo easy on the trail and in camp. Gone gone gone are the days of dealing with pack liners, pack covers, waterproof stuff sacks, etc. I do still use some nano stuff sacks inside, but only for organization of small items (cook kit, essentials, etc.) and in dry(er) weather, I've been skipping them altogether for sleep and clothing gear, and my wet tarp just gets stored outside the dry bag, underneath the back panel.

Brian will send me his list of interested names, and those folks will be notified by email when the packs ship from Brian to us, so they can keep an eye out for the stock alerts.

If you want to be "on the list" when the pack comes into stock, sign up here for a STOCK ALERT, as this page will be the landing page for the new pack:

Arctic Dry Pack @ BPL

Best,
Ryan

Edited by ryan on 03/30/2007 10:16:34 MDT.

Thanks, Ryan. Design changes make sense. I hope the new pack material is similar to the tighter mesh used on the old ULA P1 and P2 pack---it was comfortable and still pretty good in the water absorption dept.

it does sound like packs will be sold first come--first served----AKA the 3rd World airport ticket counter scenario----oh, the horror. :-)

Looks great!

Thanks for posting Ryan. Now we are all counting down until April 7th to get more information.

Ryan, does the pack still use the 65L POE Pneumo LTW Dry Sack or will the 50L also work? Will the pack come with the dry sack or will it need to be purchased separately? If separately then will BPL carry them or should I buy from REI now, so I can start experimenting? Can you gives us a hint at the weight? Sorry for the rapid fire questions.

Eric, the plan right now is to ship the packs with both 50L and 65L dry bags from POE. It's easy for us to pass some cost savings on to the customer rather than making you buy them at retail, and we can provide two of these for an added cost of the pack equivalent to the price of one at retail.

Thanks Ryan, that's great news. The 65L should be good for cold weather use, and the 50L for warm.

Please put me on the list as well.

John

We've posted a few photos, along with features and specs, of the final production prototype of the Arctic Dry Pack here:

Arctic Dry Pack Product Page.

We are expecting these to start shipping June 1. The packs will ship with both 50L and 65L Pacific Outdoor Equipment Pneumo LTW dry bags.

There will likely be a prepurchase period of about 4-5 weeks, so stay tuned for more info starting around April 20.

Edited by ryan on 04/05/2007 14:52:44 MDT.

you guys went swimming with these on & they kept everything dry, right?

Ryan,
Thanks for posting pics, they look great! Are the dry bags that come with the pack going to be the Solar Orange color?

Is there any worry of the connection to the shoulder straps on the dry bag failing over time?

Edited by dstenberg1 on 04/05/2007 15:40:59 MDT.

Cary: yes, so long as (a) the valve is closed (!) and (b) the roll top gets three full turns, and (c) if you swim in it, you should blow the bag up to induce positive air pressure in it.

I settled on these dry bags based on our experience on the Arctic 1000, packrafting, and some test results performed by Carol Crooker, published here.

Edited by ryan on 04/05/2007 15:02:30 MDT.

David: Yes, they will be that color. I think this fall, we'll also stock replacement bags for the packs, after all, they will wear out with use. Those replacement bags will be custom colored, and we'll certainly do one that is more muted.

The dry bag corners seem to be holding up great. You don't really put a lot of stress there, most of the load is carried on the hips. BUT in the event of failure, we do have a workaround built in, where the shoulder straps are connected and slide under a loop on the bottom panel of the pack. It's slick, and gives a fully dynamic shoulder strap system. Some folks may actually prefer it, it gives you a fix in the field of the dry bag corner fails, and allows you to use the pack with non-POE branded dry bags that don't have these slots.

Ryan,
Thank you for the reply. That answers several of my questions. I look forward to seeing the designs in person.

Ryan, could I use this pack with a 50L dry bag for the bulk of my gear and also store separately, that it not in the dry bag, my Alpacka packraft and have them both on the harness? Could I squeeze a broken down 4-piece carbon fiber paddle in their too?

I'm thinking of trips where I might have a lot of hiking and a moderate amount of paddling. Rahter like the Isle Royale trip I did last year (and I've another one planned for this year) - yes, still need to do a true packrafting river trip but not sure where and don't want to go alone (odd, I'm willing to paddle short open water stretches on the Great Lakes solo, but not do a river with rapids solo).

Man, that is so weird seeing the pack for real now. The design is so similar to the one I'm working on it's uncanny. I guess the demands of the design lead you to the same typological conclusions. But I must say the use of the drybag's lower slots to secure the shoulder straps is ingenious. I never even looked at the holes for their possible usefulness in the design. Wonderful! Just curious how do you keep the tendency of the drybag from rounding out against your back? Is there a foam frame? I want to buy this pack, so I'm curious about that. Thanks!

These packs look nice.
Do I understand it correctly this is a one of a kind offer? So once the stock is sold, that's it?
I hope some more pictures of the pack will be added to get an exact idea of how the pack looks and works in all directions.

Miguel-

There is a dense 1/8" foam framesheet that is in the backpanel of the pack that is non-removeable. In additional, there is a piece of 3/8" foam against your back. Additional rigidity and support come from the twin aluminum stays that are removeable as well.

Glad you like the pack and thanks for the kudos about the shoulder strap anchoring. Not only was it a good idea, BUT it also works really well! Always nice when that happens...

Brian

KEN: Yes, that's exactly what I do. My packraft does not get stowed inside the dry bag. So, the dry bag gets stowed in the bottom part of the harness, and the raft gets rolled and either stowed sideways in the top of the harness, under the roll top strap. I use a 4-piece paddle too, but unless I'm bushwhacking, I keep it at 2 pieces and stow the paddles down inside the beavertail, paddles down. The four pieces of the paddles will also fit into the 65L dry bag.

TOM: I'll be adding many more detailed photos next week. I'm taking this final prototype on a hike in the Red Desert and packrafting in the Wind Rivers next week. After that trip, I'll give Brian the green light on remaining minor issues, and this first batch will be wrapped up. This batch (Spring 2007) is a one time deal, but if customer feedback is good and it sells out, then we'll do more!

I'm just wondering how those who use hydration bladders while hiking are going to manage with this pack. I realize you can place a bladder in the exterior pocket, but this would place a tremendous amount of torque on the back. Placing a bladder inside would obviously compromise water proofing values in order to run the tube (somehow) out through the dry bag closure. For me, and the fact that I absolutely despise hiking with bottles would make the pack a non-starter.

I guess I'm a strange one, but I would much prefer to stick with my ULA Catalyst, and continue waterproofing it with a compactor bag and/or pack cover, and have a pack that I can drain easily should any interior liquid leak.

Piece of cake - in fact - quite a lot easier to deal with than conventional packs.

The bladder goes in the EXACT same spot as a regular pack with a hydration sleeve, but OUTSIDE the packbag (between the pack bag and framesheet), so access is easy!

And, if you want the bladder to ride higher, you can use cord through the grommet loops on the bladder and affix it to the top of the framesheet.

when will you determine the price?

George: It's in progress. It will be a few weeks, still.

Is there a way to resize the pictures so that they do not overlap the specs for the pack?

Thanks,

JA

I'm so getting one of these!! Sign me up!

Edited by SmokiesHanger on 04/08/2007 14:59:34 MDT.

I'm definately salivating over the pack! If there's a pre-purchase list going around. Sign this canuk up.
I've been dreaming about this design.

Edited by turk on 04/08/2007 15:32:12 MDT.

Thanks. From the pictures, and the way the suspension is described, it seemed the framesheet would be be too closely attached to the crybag to slide in a bladder. Your explanation clears this up.

How durable are these POE dry bags actually? Is it a delicate fabric or is it still quite robust?

It's not entirely clear to me whether only the zip gives access to the mesh pocket or that the pocket can also be reached from above. The dscription also mentions the use of the daisy chain for strapping an ice axe or trekking poles but it appears to me to be a less ideal solution when the mesh pocket is being filled with rather bulky items pushing the axe or poles to far from the back. Using the side compression straps for this is not practicle also due to the lack of a side pocket to store them, certainly when the pack is undrfilled. So what is the best way to store these items or how practicle would it be to make a small side pocket?

The drypacks are quite robust. Much more so than the lighter drybags of Sea to Summit. The fabric has a similar feel to that of say the new GoLite Jam2 or the Mountainsmith Ghost (though probably not as strong as the Ghost's material). The material is a bit stiff, with good fiber reinforcment. I think it can handle most of what you would encounter, even rock scrambling. And yet it's quite light, too.

Is there a cost estimate?
How suited is it for water / portage use?

Doug


.

Tom -

The dry bags are rather robust. I think you'll find them to have very good abrasion resistance. I've bushwhacked in mine a lot, and they've not been punctured. Don't count on them to resist desert thorns, etc. however. Willows, slide alder, devils club, no problem.

The zip is a vertical side zip that gives access to the mesh pocket. It's sealed from above.

The daisy chain, even when the mesh pocket is full and bulging "is one solution" (!). I've stowed trekking poles in the comp straps and just made sure to loop the lower strap through the handle straps for extra security. I've carried an ice axe when the pack is both bulging and underfilled on the daisy and it doesn't seem to be a problem, even if it lacks some aesthetic appeal because it isn't lying perfectly flat.

The compression straps fit many of the aftermarket "side pockets" very well, or you can make your own.

I have huge McHale "Super Side Pockets" that fit the pack, these may be my solution for serious overloading!

Doug: Costing is in progress. We will do a prepurchase on these packs. Look for that after April 18. We gotta get through Cocoons first, which go out for prepurchase tomorrow.

The pack is designed for water/portage/swimming/packrafting. You can extend the top strap with your own combination of webbing and buckles and carry anything you want in it: "Canoes!" "Chainsaws!" etc you know the routine.

I am interested too.

For the mathematically challenged:

1 liter = 61.024 cubic inches
1000 cubic inches = 16.387 liters

Therefore........
50 liters = 3051 cubic inches......call it 3000
65 liters = 3996 cubic inches......call it 4000



Total weight = 40 ounces with 50L bag; 40.8 oz with 65L bag

Weight: Harness (w/o frame): 26.0 oz; Two aluminum frame stays (included): 4.3 oz (for both); Dry Bags (included): 50L (9.7 oz); 65L (10.5 oz)

Edited by wandering_bob on 04/09/2007 15:12:31 MDT.

How would this pack compare to a Arcteryx NAOS or a ULA catalyst with at S to S eVent drybag inside. What would be a comfortable weight limit for this pack?
Don

To get the photos to move off of the specifications textbox, close your FAVORITES when using Internet Explorer.




I too would be interested in this pack, depending on the pricing.


I question the stability of the bear can on top of the drybag using only a single strap. That would also have to be a long strap as well. I would think a "Y" strap would be more secure. A 9 x 14 inch cylinder is going to twist around up there......IMHO.

I dont mean to steal Ula's thunder in any way but there are other options out there for carrying drybags.

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2933&deptid=1989#

I know a few people that use these for packrafting. The Ula design looks much better though. The full width beavertail will help avoid wear and tear on the drybag bottom much better than the NRS version. The NRS model is also quite heavy for what it is.

Eric, this is a good option at an excellent price for those on a budget. I used one of these packrafting before I moved to a POE dry pack and then the ULA Arctic. The NRS has a "conventional" mass market hip belt that is pretty stiff and it doesn't have hip belt pockets or secure storage other than the bungee on the back. It's a great portage pack, but the inability to keep the dry bag riding high makes it a poor backpacking pack.

But if your loads are light and you're on a budget, and you do more paddling than hiking, it's $50 well spent. I recommend it.

Edited by ryan on 04/09/2007 17:48:48 MDT.

Thats generally what I've heard too, that the NRS is functional for what it is but not really super designed for all day hiking. I still know people that have done week long trips with them (and put holes in the bottom of their drybags while at it too).

They are a steal though for those looking to try the concept.

Bob,

The pack can have an additional long strap slid on the central strap for big and tall loads.

The ULA pack design is quite good and has lots of flexibility.

Never needed a Y-strap even for really tall loads, but all my really tall loads have involved packrafting where I use the paddle in two pieces up the sides (blades up) to stabilize the load, adding a lash strap that goes around the paddles and tallest laod to stabilize.

Probably doesn't make sense what I just wrote....but the pack is very flexible.

Roman

Miguel,

The POE dry bags are by far the best with their burp valves and their greater durability. Just don't forget to close the valve after cinching the pack down!

The most durable dry bags are heavy and tend to be cylindrical and no good on the back. The POE ones are light and pillow-case style, meaning flat on the back.

The Drybags are not inflated except when swimming -- we generally squeeze all the air out.

I really like the 50 L bag's dimensions (tall and narrow), but the volume of the 65 L

Roman

Yes, 1 more to add to the list of folks who would like one of these packs.

Rik

I like this pack more and more every day. Perhaps I would have liked a few more things like a bungee system, ice axe keepers or a small mesh side pocket to store my hiking poles but I guess I could make these myself if I really need them.
About the purchasing process, I've noticed quite a lot of people are interested in this pack. Ryan, could you already give an indication on how this relates to the number of packs that will be available in this batch? Are there already more interested than packs available? I would hate to see this pack slip through my fingers because I was unable to access BPL at the moment of pre-purchase, not knowing if a second batch will be made.

It seems as though this pack would be perfect for alpinism with a few modifications. Does anyone else share this view?

Why not just a silnylon pack with beefier hipbelt and the POE as a liner? I wonder what the weight difference would be b/t a silnylon pack and the ULA pack w/o dry bag? I remember it weighing something like 13 oz. for the arctic 1000.

Anyone use a GearSkin?

Sgt Rock seems to like it a bunch.

Review here: Moonbow Gearskin

It might, but I always look for a pack that won't load up with snow for long glissades. It seems like this might load up with snow but it would be very easy to clear the snow out too...and everything would be dry.

No axe attachments so this would be a jury rig.

Hmm...seems okay for mountaineering but better in the aqueous environment.

The lightweight drybags bags will not stand up to the rock abrasion and abuse a climbing pack gets.

I dont see why a harness pack would make a good climbing pack, care to share?

I have had no luck with silnylon packs. In fact I don't even like silnylon for anything but cookpot and bushbuddy ash liners.

The POE bags are very durable, offering what I think is the highest durability to weight ratio -- no quantitative lab testing done, but lots of field time.

Sometimes when I packraft, I carry my raft, dry suit, helmet, paddle, and throw rope all in the ULA pack without any bag, just strap it into the raw pack, so to speak.

I have also gone hiking and carefully packaged my sleeping bag, clothing, food, and cookpot in my megamid and again loaded it into the ULA Arctic 1000 style pack, raw, without any bag.

This takes more thought and effort to do, however, than just throwing things in your sack and tossing it on your back.

Spartan, function, and share.....

Two question about sizing.
The Arctic pack description only mentions torso length sizing but says nothing about the hipbelt sizing. Is there any info on that?
About the torso length, how accurate are these in ULA-packs? Is an M pack with a 18-20" torso range OK for a person with a 20" back or is it better to size up to a size L pack. I've read reviews from people who had to buy a larger pack (not necesarily ULA) than based on their measured torso length because the packsize which corresponded with their back length was actually too short.

How about some more photos - especially some of the frame and suspension system, as these will stay the same while the dry packs themselves are interchangeable.

Is the suspension system adjustable or fixed?

Thanks.

Edited by wandering_bob on 04/17/2007 16:04:33 MDT.

I am on Brian's list if memory serves; please put me on Ryan's list as well.

Ryan,

Any word on when pre-purchase for the Artic Dry Pack will begin?

The first production run for Arctic Dry Packs will be shipped "around" June 1, give or take a week or two, depending on the degree of overlap with the Cocoon shipment, which is (gasp) expected to arrive somewhere in there as well.

They will be open for prepurchase early next week, probably sometime Monday...

Ballpark for Members will be $300ish and will include both 50L and 65L dry bags. Those who have signed up for stock alerts will be alerted when the prepurchase sale is activated.

Not all of the inventory will be made available for prepurchase. If you don't get in on the prepurchase, we'll make the rest of the inventory available after prepurchase inventory has been shipped - but as you know from previous history, that will be a free for all.

Consequently, the prepurchase will only be available to Premium Members.

Ryan,
if you could start prepurchasing at the same hour as you posted your message, I will be right at my desk so I can order directly :-)
Just a few follow-up questions:
* how accurate is the framesizing? Just to be sure that for my 20" back a medium is certainly right and that I don't need to size up to a L.
* could you give an idea of the hipbelt sizing?
* are you able to post a few more pictures? It would be helpfull if I had an idea of the pack from different angles (front, back, sides,whichever angle you can think of) before having to make a definite decision.

Buying a pack online (and certainly a large volume pack with an internal frame) is not the same as buying a titanium cup or spoon. I always tell people that there are two things for which fit is absolutely crucial and for which you have to go to a store to try as many as you can to find the right fit: shoes and packs. Buying a pack online without having tried it before is a bit contradictory to that. Adding the fact that I have to include transatlantic shipping costs, import duties and VAT, this pack will be expensive enough that I want to maximise the chance that the pack fits about right and is what I exspected it to be.

Edited by Woubeir on 05/03/2007 09:40:45 MDT.

I suspect that the sizing (correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan, Brian, etc.) may be very similar to the the largest ULA packs, particularly the ULA Catalyst pack. The Arctic Pack seems to share a lot of similarities to the suspension of this pack.
http://www.ula-equipment.com/sizing.htm
I would also email Brian Frankle of ULA ( who is making the Arctic Packs) w/ this question.

My 22 1/2 " torso fits like a glove with the ULA size large pack I own. On the older ULA packs, particularly the discontinued P-1, some people would go up a size as they thought the sizes were running a bit on the short side. I think this has changed on the current ULA offerings.

Although what will be offered to us is somewhat different from the packs that Ryan et al used on the Arctic 1000, you might want to check out the pictures of that original prototype----
http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/2006/05/backpacks_for_a.html

Notice in the picture of the suspension, that there does not appear to be any "lift straps" on the shoulder straps. I wonder if this will be true on the production packs.

Edited by kdesign on 05/03/2007 11:43:05 MDT.

Kevin-

Thanks for the explanation. Spot on. MD is 18-20", LG is 21-23".

The pics of the original AP that Ryan took to AK does not have load lifters as that was what Ryan requested for his own pack. The updated, BPL version DOES HAVE load lifters from the shoulder straps to the top of the pack and they align with the twin stays.

Brian

Thanks Brian,
what about the sizing of the hipbelt? With a Catalyst you could choose your hipbelt size which I guess is not possible with the Arctic pack. Does this have an impact on the sizerange or does a medium frame pack have a medium hipbelt with 34"-37" range?

You can't really make a pack to fit a "range" of torso sizes and not have load lifter straps. "Load lifter" is sort of a misnomer, the reality is that it provides the ability for some torso length adjustment.

Everyone note the new pricing data----
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ula_arctic_dry_pack.html

anyone scared off? >;->

Edited by kdesign on 05/03/2007 13:34:34 MDT.

Ryan,
Could you explain how load lifters provide the ability for some torso length adjustment?

Henry -

Load lifters attach to the shoulder strap at the virtual "crown" of the strap (at the top of the shoulder). Consequently, by adjusting the length of the load lifter strap (via the ladderloc use to attach the load lifter strap to the pack near the location of the top of the frame stays) and the location of the point at which it attaches to the shoulder strap (via the sliding loop that attaches the load lifter strap to the shoulder strap), you can effectively control the height of the crown relative to its distance from the hip belt centerline.

Edited by ryan on 05/03/2007 13:46:42 MDT.

Kevin,

It's too high for me to consider further. I like trying out new gear and clothing, but the price is too high for me to consider further. I suspect others may be in the same position too. It will be interesting to see what others think of the pack when they get it.

Craig

Very interesting. I wish I could afford it but I can't justify the cost for the small amounts of backpacking I do in the conditions that require it. Maybe in the future though...

Comparing the Arctic to the ULA Catalyst, which looks like an excellent pack, (and I realize this is apples to oranges, a bit), it seems one doesn't give up too much to gain the Arctic's water resistance. Of course, there is a price difference. Can anyone comment on this?
I.E., the Catalyst weighs 43 oz and has a capacity of 4600 cu in, 2600 of that in the main body, and the Arctic weighs ~42 oz with the 65 L bag, for a capacity in the bag of ~4000 cu in, plus whatever one stuffs in the various other pockets (probably at least 600 cu in?).
Perhaps the Catalyst carries better, or is more durable?

Edited by swimjay on 05/03/2007 19:31:47 MDT.

Good question, James. The primary reason is that we're doing a limited production run for the Arctic Dry Pack, so economies of scale have not been realized. Maybe in 2008? We'll have to gauge demand on this one I suppose.

Thanks Ryan for the quick reply. I'm sorry I was a bit ambiguous there. I didn't mean to call attention to the price difference, that actually seems quite reasonable, given the Arctic's small product run and features. What I was really asking, was, cost aside, why would one not prefer the Arctic to the Catalyst?

No worries at all.

Part of the price is in the 2 dry bags. I think if the pack wasn't shipped with dry bags we'd bring it down into the $259 range (members) but being able to buy both for an extra $40 (MSRP $64) seemed like a better way to go than offering them separately at MSRP or close to it.

OK, so why might one prefer a Catalyst over an Arctic? Brian is the best one to articulate the benefits of the Catalyst, I haven't used one. But, just on the surface:

The Arctic doesn't have side pockets;
The Arctic has a lot of orange in it (but we'll be offering other colors for replacement dry bags this fall);
The Arctic may be more difficult to use than the Catalyst because it has a packbag that is separable from the harness and thus is not a "one piece" pack;
The Arctic is more expensive;

Like I said, I haven't seen the Catalyst yet so there may be harness/load carrying differences.

Personally, I think a $75 premium over the Catalyst for a pack w/ it's particular feature set w/ such a relatively small productiion run is not such a big price to pay.
At least, that's what I'm telling myself.

Will trade BPL ranking Points for $. :-)>

Yes, I agree with Kevin. And if I can find a buyer for a used pacemaker, I'm in. Besides, all that orange just makes recovering the body that much easier.

Edited by swimjay on 05/03/2007 20:24:18 MDT.

When I saw the price I had to give a big gulp. While I have been wanting one of these ever since I first saw them last June and had my name on Brian's list from the very start no matter how I think about it I just can't justify the price to myself. I do think that as a limited production item the price is reasonable, but just not within my budget range.

I guess this is more incentive to get my own design finished... it's transmogrified into a harness/ sleeping mat using the idea of the sleeping mat as a structural element in the pack design. It solves the Arctic pack's problem of no side pockets for water bottles by using a removeable strapping and waistbelt system which in itself is a wraparound pocket that can be used as a waistbelt pouch. The design even offers a rudimentary top pocket which can be used as a fixed pillow when the mat is laid out. And since I am also designing a hammock/ bivy and want to be able to suspend all my gear I've figured out that you can set up a POE drybag as a gear hammock just like Just Jeff's design. When there are no trees the drybag, as Ryan did in the Arctic, is big enough to be used as a ground cloth. All this sounds really complicated, but actually it's only three elements.

Still, I think I'm going to regret not buying the Arctic pack...

What has me looking at the Arctic pack is the main pack bag volume. I now use a Mariposa for my winter pack and the main pack bag gets packed really tightly. I've been looking for a pack with a larger main pack bag that is a little tougher (without a lot of weight gain) than the Mariposa. I want my gear to all fit easily into the main pack bag with just some snacks, etc. in external pockets. Other LW packs I've looked at specs for don't have the larger main pack bag that I want. Mariposa main bag volume is 2900 ci. The Arctic 65 L dry bag should be around 3900 ci. The Arctic pack is heavier than I'd like and I really love a side pocket I can grab a water bottle out of. (I'll probably attach a side pocket or see if a small bottle will fit in a hipbelt pocket.) I do love that it comes with optional stays. It isn't the ideal winter pack I'd been envisioning - still I've convinced myself I need it. THE KICKER IS that once I started thinking about getting the Arctic pack I felt I needed to figure out more uses for it to justify the price. So, today I ordered an Alpacka raft - LOL! The price of those things far exceeds the pack price.
I'm definitely in the grip of gear frenzy! And I can't wait to try out my new packraft!

Edited by cmcrooker on 05/03/2007 23:00:50 MDT.

FWIW,

I have used a Catalyst and a Gust for winter/wet weather. One of the things I honed in on when deciding to purchase to Arctic Pack was The absolute water tightness in all conditions (I think Roman wrote about it). If I end up in 4 days of solid rain or a combo of rain and snow, I have ABSOLUTELY NO WORRIES about my stuff getting wet in an Arctic Pack. For me, the insurance of dry gear when I abslutley need it most is worth twice the cost of this pack. Under my current scenario, the Gust or Catalyst certainly fulfill the need, but the fuss factor when adding a rain cover or internal liner system lends itself to gear getting wet over a period of sustained rain or snow (at least for me it does!).

In addition, the ability to compress the system is really cool. Like Carol, I may add a side pocket or two if I feel the need - the weight would be negligible. But having used the Catalyst, the hip pockets are really big, and assuming I can put a 2 liter platy betwen the harness system and the dry bag, this pack is pretty much plug and play for me - no modifications needed.

I may end up selling my Catalyst once I get the Arctic Pack, FYI.

Mike

In an earlier post I referred to the orange color of the pack body making it easier to find, (if it got separated from the harness). It's an unlikely scenario, but it got me thinking. If one had to cross a narrow lake one couldn't ford, could one put everything into the pack body, including the pack harness, ones clothes and shoes, then inflate it, and swim across, either towing it, or even using the flotation to help in the swim. Would this be placing too much trust/load on the pack body seal?

Edited by swimjay on 05/04/2007 08:30:26 MDT.

I think you have to look at the two packs as specialized tools for a given job. When you run the numbers on a direct comparison things look OK, but when you factor in respective use, each is the clear winner in its own category.

The Catalyst would struggle in scenarios that the Arctic Pack shines, and the Arctic Pack leaves me a little wanting functionally for trail hiking.

Could you use a circular saw for tree trimming? Sure...but a chain saw works much better. Better to use the right tool for the right job.

Brian

I guess it also depends on how you use a pack. I've never cared about large exterior pockets and the possibility to to grasp things while on the move. It doesn't bother me that I have to take off my pack when I need something. I prefer to put as much gear inside the pack with perhaps a limited volume exterior backpocket voor a few small items, or a bungee cord set up. In that respect, I think the Arctic pack suits my need quite well.
Other people, particularly in the US, seem to prefer large exterior pockets and need less volume inside the pack. The Catalyst corresponds very well to that style.

I've certainly put my mind on the Arctic pack. It's not perfect (a small mesh side pocket just to stow my poles, an ice axe loop and keeper and muted colored dry bags would have made it perfect for me) but it's good enough (and I guess I could try to make those loops or mesh pockets myself; if anyone has suggestions on how to do that ?). The price is steep but at least for me the current exchange rates help a bit.

Tom - any aftermarket side pocket is easily added and can be configured with the Arctic pack's side compression straps.

We had an ice axe loop on the pack but removed it. There is a full length rear daisy chain up the back of the pack, and any loop can be girth hitched to the lowest rung on the daisy chain, and another strap or two-side vecro, or bungee, used to secure the axe shaft on one of the higher rungs. A similar rig can be used for trekking poles. I've been stashing my poles in the side compression straps without any other accessory straps, and they remain secure, especially if I loop the lower strap around the trekking pole handle.

And, muted color dry bags are coming this fall.

I would say that an ice ax loop and some provision for trekking pole storage would be awfully nice---if it isn't already too late to incorporate such a feature,
otherwisw, it would be my 1st (and hopefully only) Mod to the pack.

I kinda like the blazing orange myself. It will go nicely w/ my acid green hardshell. :-)>

awk---nevermind. thanks for the reminder Ryan.

Edited by kdesign on 05/04/2007 10:20:18 MDT.

Brian--Thanks for your reply. I guess the problem comes when one feels one only has room in ones life for one more pack, not two, and has to choose. If the loss of trail functionality was limited to the absence of side pockets, or more generally, packing flexibility, for me that would be an acceptable trade-off to gain the Arctic's advantages. But if the Catalyst, for example, "carried" much better than the Arctic, i.e., fit and moved much better, then it would be a harder choice. And it's hard to know without having both packs to try in front of one, so any specific guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks for answering my concerns Ryan, although you already answered them before in this thread. My remarks weren't meant to be answerd this time; just some points I'm was thinking of adding myself. But I will definitely try your methods to lash poles and ice axe. Perhaps they work better than I'm imagining now.
Your suggestion about adding an aftermarket side pocket, I don't think this is wat I mean. I'm thinking of side pockets like the stretch side pockets in the Granite Gear packs or the mesh side pockets in older Osprey Aethers.

BTW, if not mistaken, my question about the hipbelt sizing hasn't been answered yet. I'm not sure if a ULA medium hipbelt fits me assuming that the same sizing as for the Catalyst is being used.

Edited by Woubeir on 05/04/2007 11:22:31 MDT.

James, yes, absolutely.

You might have a look at the cover of Issue 7, which shows Jason Geck swimming the Ipnavik River in the Arctic with an inflated Arctic Dry Pack as a ... boat :)



The trick is to inflate the bag so that there is positive pressure in the bag relative to the outside atmosphere (or the pressure exerted by water if immersed - this keeps water out splendidly.

Cover photo was taken by Roman Dial.

Edited by ryan on 05/04/2007 13:43:13 MDT.

I, too, wonder if there will be hipbelt sizing options like on the largest ULA packs (the Catalyst offering 5 different sizes!). From some posted pictures it almost looks that the hipbelt might be fixed and if so, given a small production run, that one could assume that there may be limited sizing choices. If not fixed, given both the very un-ULA color and the uniquely large integral beltpacks, production run issues would still dictate limited choice.

¿Verdad?

Edited by kdesign on 05/04/2007 13:42:02 MDT.

Wow!

Brian has a 32" waist, he tried on the pack and had a little less than 2" of webbing play in either side of the belt, so that leaves a minimum waist size (maybe) of 28". There is enough webbing included (many will want to hack some of it!) for a waist nearly 60" in size.

So, we updated the specs on the pack page to include a hip belt range of 29-60".

Thanks.

If anyone is interested the 50L drybag used in the Arctic 1000 packs is available on Sierra Trading Post for $20. I just got back from a two month trip to New Zealand and used it inside an older Osprey Aether 60 that I have trimmed down and left the top pocket at home. This combination comes in under four pounds. It fit perfectly when the air was compressed out and using it is definitely worth the few ounce penalty over a pack cover or liner and several stuff sacks. I'm sure many of you can figure out how to use it in a pack you already own or can pick up for cheap. Having said that I am on the list to be notified when this comes in stock.

Is Prepurchase for the Arctic Pack starting today?

The Arctic pack presale will not be televised.

Yep, it's live now. Enjoy:

Arctic Dry Pack Prepurchase Now Online

Edited by ryan on 05/07/2007 10:36:43 MDT.

I knew all those hours spent in my martial arts training, catching flies with chop sticks, felling attackers before I even knew they were there, honing my reflexes to ultra-human perfection, would come in handy some day.

Of course, it probably would have been smarter to order the right size.

Well, that's one Mon. task out of the way. Now to sell some BPL Ranking points to pay for this sucker. :-)>

I hope they dont sell out before I get to order tomorrow! Just one more day....
- Ordered one today!

Edited by MAYNARD76 on 05/09/2007 09:03:00 MDT.

This looks a perfect pack for New Zealand conditions. Think I might wait for a less flambouyant color...

Looks very interesting, but still have a lingering question or two. Some photos of the pack frame would help in answering them. My main concern is how the load lifters are attached, I couldn't quite figure out the explaination givin above. A photo would help a lot. If we can't get a photo, can you tell us how much distance is between where the shoulder strap attaches to the frame to where the load lifters attach? I know you said it attaches to the top of the optional aluminum stays, but the picture in the Artic 1000 article show the shoulder straps attaching to the very top of the frame. Can't figure out if they would be effective if they are both attached to the same point.

Above you say the load lifters attached to the top of the shoulder straps. Can they be adjusted (like they are on my ULA Circuit pack) down in front of the shoulders?

As mentioned above, not being able to try a pack on before purchasing means we need to know a little more about it before making a final decision.

Thanks,

The pack looks great for a lot of the stuff I would like to do, but I can see wanting to use it 1-2 times a year with skis. Can the compression straps hold up to ski carrying? Or is there a way to rig a diagonal ski carry using the daisy chain?

Also, would it be possible to roll/pack up the pack itself (not the dry bag) to strap it onto a bike rack? How small can it get?

I realize both of the above are outside of the intended use, but it looks like it could be versatile enough for one or both of these applications.

Thanks

Hi Roman,
I've got a question about your use of the "raw" Arctic1000 pack: Where do you attach the shoulder straps that are designed to slot into the dry bag down low? Or are you referring to your custom versions that were used for the Arctic1000 Trek?
Whoops: I think I came across the answer in one of Ryan's earlier posts, i.e. running the shoulder straps through a loop underneath the beavertail? If so, feel free to ignore my question. If not, I'd appreciate knowing your solution.
Many thanks.
Tom

Edited by ouzel on 06/03/2007 18:21:33 MDT.

My Arctic Pack shipped out today!!!

Sweet David! BTW, we expect a full review of your impressions of the pack.

When did you order the pack, David? I thought I was 1st! :-)>

(I ordered within 2 hours of prepurchase announcement--a size L)

Edited by kdesign on 06/06/2007 15:51:48 MDT.

Ditto for Kevin...

Kevin,
I ordered a size M and I don't remember if it was the first day or the second.
Maybe the Size M's came in first.

Edited by dstenberg1 on 06/06/2007 18:59:10 MDT.

Yes!,
Mine shipped today too. I didnt order until the morning of the 3rd day and I also got a size medium -

also a medium

Merde! Height discrimination!

Brian! (Frankle of ULA)

Edited by kdesign on 06/06/2007 20:22:30 MDT.

Well hush my mouth. It's shipped

My backpacks here, and there’s gonna be trouble
ULA, ULA, my backpack’s here
The weight on my back, it’s now gonna double
ULA, ULA, my backpack’s here
Those big long trips gonna fall like bricks,
ULA, ULA, my backpack’s here
Cause now I got all those arctic summer tricks
ULA, ULA, my backpack’s here

Meter infraction. We only use iambic pentameter on this site. :-)>

My Arctic Pack is slated to arrive mañana. (Yawn)


:-D

Edited by kdesign on 06/11/2007 22:49:53 MDT.

So my Artic pack was delivered but I'm a few thousand miles away from home right now, can someone feed my artic pack need and post some pics of the pack harness and the pack being worn?

Thanks

Hopefully back to MN, before long. Be careful, guy! One of us will post pictures, soon. Promise.

Pack just arrived----report to follow in near future.

Edited by kdesign on 06/12/2007 13:54:12 MDT.

Large Arctic w/ the 65L Drysack ( what it came w/, mounted) and frame stays is 42.35 oz. There is going to be some webbing to be trimmed (there's a lot of extra) and the frame stays will need to be molded----this will change the apparent torso length for many so don't panic if out of the box it seems too tall. I would suggest that a little tape be added to the frame, top and bottom---although the frame ends are beveled, I see a potential for them wearing through the frame sleeves. The belt pockets are capacious enough for some serious photo gear (like my Canon G6) or what you will.

Quality is very high in that estimable Brian Frankle/ULA way. I wonder if Brian personally sewed these up or one of his local Logan seamstresses? No time for pictures or a trial run today----this is in between CAD work sessions and am swamped. Hope to take it on at least a trial run (dayhike but loaded down) in a day or 2.

So far, so good.

Edited by kdesign on 06/12/2007 15:54:04 MDT.

As promised to Nicholas, some photos. These were of a loaded pack w/ the 50L bag, my Pad and a 2L Platypus in the back (yes, a 2L filled up to about 1.5L fits in the zippered pocket).


A Revolution in Pack Evolution----very comfortable w/ the 25# I've loaded it with to date and shlepped on a little 5 mi. dayhike. I think that Ryan Jordan and Brian Frankle may well have knocked this one out of the park!.

Edited by kdesign on 06/16/2007 14:35:42 MDT.

Nice pictures Kevin. My pack should arrive any day, but in the meantime, just a few questions:
1) Normally the shoulderstraps are sewn to the bottom of the pack. Here the shoulderstraps fit into the slots of the dry bag. Does that look like a weak point to you?
2) I see a cheststrap but on your picture it's positioned quite low although it seems it can't be moved any higher. Doesn't that interfere with breathing?
3) lot's of excess webbing. Any idea how much weight can be saved by cutting that off (I know depends from person to person but just curious)?

Thanks, Tom.
1) Time will tell. If the shoulder strap is really slack, it is possible for the buckle to wiggle through if you really try. I think a hack is possible to make things more secure down there.
2)Sternum Strap is ok for me but it is in the top position. There is a lot more strap above this top anchoring point that could be employed for a sternum strap, but that would involve popping stitching to get ladderlock buckles in place. May be a mod that some users will have to do.
3) Lotsa excess webbing but I will not put anything under the knife, yet until I have tweaked the suspension for ultimate comfort. Maybe save 1/2 -1 oz.---guesstimate.

Love those big side pockets!

I think that there are one or two things that I would improve on the pack beyond the above concerns---
I would cant the shoulder strap placement, where it is sewn at the top, more agressively. I would also beef up the Dyneema bottom with a bit heavier duty fabric---at the cost of no more than another oz. or so of weight gain.

Edited by kdesign on 06/16/2007 15:25:54 MDT.

I like the hip-belt with the dual buckles and I have a feeling many of his packs will eventually have this feature as well.

I like this type of hip-belt design over what is now current with some of the ULA packs. (Catalyst,Circuit, etc)

Although, I think a 1-1/2" wide, single buckled hip-belt is good as well. Simple,quick & easy.

Thanks.

great pics, exactly what I was looking for.

After staring at these pics, I think a great MYOG project would be to make a Artic pack SUL clone for the POE 25L dry bag. I think with a harness with more convential exterior mesh pockets would be awesome.

I really look forward to getting the Artic pack into operation!

By the way, nice balaclava and pipe, you've got a UL hiker meets symbioneese militia look going. I like it!

Actually that was supposed to be the twin brother (seperated at birth) of the leader of S. Mexico's Zapatista movement. Gotta know your "liberation" movements.

Be safe in Iraq!

Oh, I thought it was a Ninja Turtle that hung out with Tommy Chong or Popeye.

Edited by pappekak on 06/17/2007 10:23:47 MDT.

Flattery will get you no where, dude.

That's my BD Binding Buddy I'm smoking. Review to follow. :-)>

"Bushwacker Safe"

I just got back from an overnighter with my new Arctic pack. I had already left before Brian Frankle advised me that the dry bag would be better next to the frame w/ pad rolled and stored on top or in front. I had put my foam pad against the frame out of sheer habit... having used them as a virtual frame for years. Brians suggestion makes perfect sense and I will follow it next time. But that said despite the adjustment shift to this new design, it carried beautifully. Far better than I expected considering that I havnt use a "real" frame pack in so long. I also purposely carried more weight than I needed and overpacked since this was designed for heavier loads than I usually carry- I had about 30lb. give or take ( I just threw a bunch of extra clothes and more insulation and food than I needed in it). I was half dreading hiking with this kind of weight over so many ups and downs but like I said it carried wonderfully. As expected It carried better and better as it got broken in and I made adjustments.
As for its durability, I climbed/ducked/crawled over and under a lot of Spruce blowdowns this weekend and it didnt leave any but one very faint superfical mark on the dry bag.
Very happy with this pack... Thanks Brian Frankle and Ryan

Edited by MAYNARD76 on 06/17/2007 19:57:05 MDT.

Cool!

I was counting on it. Also hope to use this pack for multi-day backcountry skiing
trips. Actually, pretty much anything extended except for alpine climbing.

I discovered as I was playing with my new pack that my sleeping pad fit in the 50 Liter dry bag almost perfectly. It occurred to me to use them to make an inflatable air mattress. So I trimmed my Gossamer Gear NightLight™ Sleeping Pad a little so it fit the dry bag perfectly and inserted it and my Gossamer Gear SitLight™ Sit Pad into the dry bag and then sealed the dry bag and blew it up. It worked perfectly and was much more comfortable than the foam pads themselves! This was just a short term test at home and merits a more realistic test but I was exited by the possibility and couldn't wait to share the idea. The big test will be if the pad will stay inflated all night. I've posted some photos below.

The following picture shows the entire sleeping pad system. It is long enough to accommodate me at 6'4". The beaver tail from the Artic pack is under the pad.


This picture shows the pad in use with my Montbell pillow. The toggles on the pillow fit the slots in the dry bag.


This shows the dry bag with the foam pads that were inside of the bag on top, to show their configuration. My SitLight™ Sit Pad is used on top of the NightLight™ Sleeping Pad for lumbar support and to easy the pressure on the hips when side sleeping.


By sealing the open end of the dry bag with a hot iron you could make a permanent custom air mattress if you wanted to. Maybe this belongs in the "Make Your Own Gear" thread?

Edited by ericnoble on 06/17/2007 22:35:15 MDT.

Something like what you did occurred to me, too----glad you refined it and great pictures, too. Is this a versatile pack or what?

Edited by kdesign on 06/17/2007 22:30:45 MDT.

FYI, the 50 L dry sack holds a fully stuffed ULA Amp pack (2600 ci) very nicely (and the whole thing can be lashed to the bow of an Alpacka raft). For those overnight packraft trips where you don't need the Arctic pack.

Carol, just curious as to how you secure the Arctic's dry bag alone to the raft's bow. In my experience, webbing run through the raft's lash tabs (in opposition/diagonally) tends to slip off the top and bottom of the pack (or bag, in this case) unless that webbing is secured through fixed points on a pack, such as beneath the Arctic's frame's compression panel/side webbing. Is aggressive cinching the trick, or maybe less aggressive waters?

Less aggressive waters - a reservoir. I fed the strap/line through the tabs at the bottom of the dry bag and through/around the roll top for three points of security. The dry bag stayed in place through three practice flips. One end slipped off during the fourth flip.

ericnoble wrote: "By sealing the open end of the dry bag with a hot iron you could make a permanent custom air mattress if you wanted to."

Eric,

Have you actually sealed a WXTex with a hot iron? Has anybody else?

I assume that you would cut off the flap, webbing, and closure buckle, and hot weld a portion of the coated interior of the bag along the cut end. Is this right?

I have a spare 5L WXTex that would make a great air pillow if I could seal the end, but I don't want to ruin it.

Jason, I have not done this myself, but it has been done by others. You assume correctly that the flap and webbing would need to be cut off. You will not need to hot weld or use any other adhesives, based on the experience of others I believe a hot iron will be sufficient. Ryan Faulkner was the one who did this with a WXTex dry bag as I recall. It is my understanding that the fabric used by POE for their dry bags is the same as that used for their air mattresses.

I have received my pack and I think the concept is very good. I have always liked big hipbelt pockets and these are good ones. The frame appears reasonably padded and supportive. I do have my concerns:

If the hole at the bottom of the POE Dry Bag ever rips out you won't be able to use the pack. There is not an alternate way to attach the shoulder strap to the pack. Additionally, if you ever wanted to use it to haul a load of wood (without dry bag) or use it with an alternate dry bag or several smaller dry bags you can't attach the shoulder straps. I'd like a way to attach the shoulder straps to the pack itself. Any ideas? I'm considering sewing a strap on the bottom that would feed through the plastic ring at the bottom of the strap or cutting a hole in the pack or a sewn on strap for the plastic ring to feed through to make the pack more versatile and "redundant" (fixable if the dry bag hole rips out). I'd like to hear any other ideas.

I looked at trying to figure out a fix IF the hole in the dry bag breaks. What I came up with is taking off the buckle of the lower side compression straps sewn to the back pad frame. Then threading this webbing through the shoulder strap's buckle at the end that fits in the dry bag holes. Then reattaching the buckle on the compression strap and going back to normal operation. For me this worked well and was not a problem.

I did not realize the shoulder straps attached to the drybag! That strengthens my conviction that a GearSkin might be a good alternative for that type of pack. It doesn't come with drybags but I bet it'd work well with them if/when you needed to live outdoors in always wet conditions. And you get a custom made pack to boot!

Edited by jcolten on 06/20/2007 12:05:47 MDT.

Gearskin? Apples and Oranges---it's not a framed pack. The Drysack material is tougher than you think, anyway.

Great fallback solution, David, if one were needed---good for peace of mind.

Hi Ryan, looking at your comments about the shoulder straps forming a loop under the pack when not using the dry bag slots, and this giving a dynamic suspension. Is this similar to the Arn system? I really like Arns suspension, and this would be a great feature for me.

Folks-

If the slotted corner on the POE Drybag fails, it is easy to rig up an alternative anchor.

There is a 1" webbing loop that is sewn to the bottom (center) of the backpanel.

Found it? Good. Don't forget where it is. We'll come back to it.

Step 1: Unthread the shoulder strap anchors from the slotted corners of the POE drybag, so that the shoulder straps are no longer attached.

Step 2: Pull one of the lengths of webbing (either right or left shoulder strap) that adjusts the lower shoulder strap tension all the way through until the slotted rectangular piece of hardware catches on the ladderlock. It should not pull through this piece of hardware.

Step 3:Unthread the other shoulder strap anchor from the shoulder strap ladderlock.

Step 4: Now, thread the end of the first length of shoulder strap webbing (the one that is attached to the shoulder strap) into and through the rectangular hardware of the 'free' strap. Be sure to double back the webbing in the piece of rectangular hardware so it does not release under tension. You should now have a double length shoulder strap anchor with one end attached to the ladderlock on a shoulder strap, the two lengths connected via the rectangular hardware, and the remaining end free.

Step 5: Thread the free end through the aforementioned 1" webbing loop that is sewn to the bottom (center) of the backpanel.

Step 6: Now, thread the free end through the ladderlock on the remaining unattached shoulder strap and tension appropriately.

In a nutshell, you have simply connected the 2 lengths of shoulder strap anchor webbing, run the connected lengths through the 1" webbing loop, and re-threaded the webbing through the shoulder strap. If done correctly, the shoulder strap tension is only adjustable on ONE SIDE.

I hope that helps. Pictures would be better, but alas...

Brian

Hello,
Is this pack compatible with other size dry bags?
Thanks,
Kurt

Now that I have had the opportunity to use this pack, I thought it worthwhile to come back ons this thread.
In general satisfied although I've had some serious back pain after a number of days. I already had some backpain when vacation started so it's a bit difficult to relate it completely to the pack but I am a bit worried. I hope I haven't bought the wrong size (although based on my backmeasurement it should be OK) because the shoulderstraps seem to short to use them with the alternative attachment system as mentioned before. Perhaps playing with the shape of the frame stays can help.

Another point is the attachment from the shoulderstraps to the bag. I felt it necessary to reinforce this point with some extra webbing because i've got the impression that they can detach from eachother to easily. Anyone else had a problem with this?

It's been a while since anything has been said about these packs, to the owners, what do you think?

What have you used the pack for, how do you pack it, and where do you store water?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh, and whatever happened to the more subdued colors for the drybag?

Thanks.

I've used this pack for three trips. About 50 miles Nov 2007 on the Florida Trail thru the St Marks National Wildlife Refuge, about 80 miles Dec 2007 on the Florida Trail from the Suwannee River thru the Acilla River area and about 60 miles in Feb 2008 on the Florida Trails Ocean to Lake Hike. I've been very happy with it. It seems to be able to handle the 30 to 35 lbs I normally carry and it does so better than my old ULA Circuit. I find it takes me a bit longer to pack things up with it, but it hangs better than my past packs, so I don't have to adjust things as I'm hiking as much as I use to.

Putting the water on top of the pack didn't work for me. Putting the water between the back and the bag didn't work either, it warps the pack too much. Putting it on the front of the pack puts the weight too far back. I've added a couple pockets, one on each side, to carry water. I use two, two liter Platypus flexible water bottles with a hose to the front of the pack from the left Platypus. I would have thought having differing amounts of water on either side of the pack would cause problems, but so far it has not.

The only problem I've had is I have to be very careful about packing anything even a little damp inside the waterproof bag. I pretty much knew this when I purchased it, so when it happens, it's totally my fault.



In case you didn't notice the orange pack, I'm on the left side. You can see one of the pockets I added on the right side of the pack. The grey thing on top is my MacCat tarp, which got wet from the night before.

Edited by pjguyon on 03/01/2008 16:57:03 MST.

I finally got out for a hike with this pack last weekend. There's definitely a bit of learning and art to how you pack this thing (maybe already obvious to others). I found the best way for me was to remove the drysack completely from the harness and load it up while laying it flat on the ground to ensure an even distribution of contents. Then close up top and squeeze out any remaining air through the air valve. Lay out the pack harness flat with all load straps unhooked, First lay the hydration bladder w/hose on the pack, run hose to the top where you need it and then lay dry sack on top. Then fold rear section of pack onto the dry sack, attach and cinch down all compression straps, then attach shoulder straps to the dry sack. I did not find it necessary to attach the hydration bladder in any way, the tension from the compression straps was sufficient to hold it there. I did not seem to experience any warping of the pack frame from doing this.

BTW, I was not sure what to do with the extra foam support that shipped with the pack. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Once I managed to better distribute the load in the drysack the pack carried quite well, as good as any other pack I've used. I was only carrying around 25-30lbs, nowhere close to the max rated capacity. You can't go wrong with ULA packs, always first-rate design and quality of construction. I did miss having side pockets, maybe I'll try the mod suggested by Paul. It is a bit difficult to get anything in or out of the rear sleeve without loosening the straps first. I think I'll need to figture out a way to better utilize those spacious hip belt pockets too.

This pack really does fill a niche for me. Like others, I have become frustrated with pack covers that do not really seem to work in sustained rain, and ponchos flapping around with decreased ground visibility are not always a good answer either. The dry sack continues to be a handy item to have in camp, I'm still trying to dream up other creative uses for it. For sure, for people who use 2/3 length inflatable pads, those who like to maintain full inflation for a firmer pad can use this to prop up the lower body to a more level position. And I like having a bomber waterproof place to hold the rest of my gear while in camp. When hammocking I will put all my unused gear inside the dry sack at night (including the pack frame), and hang the dry sack on the hammock guy line by looping the closure buckle around it.

Kudos to ULA and BPL for coming out with such a unique and useful product.

I have just read this entire thread, and at the end of it all I know is I want one of these packs.

Just seen the price on the shop and at £222 (Sterling), they are EXPENSIVE!

Are they as much the "Mutts Nutts" as I have read or should I look at stand ULA pack?


Many thanks

Mike

Edited by Lamper on 04/16/2009 06:07:31 MDT.